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Dude frazier had a very protected title run, you wont belive how many punchers the guy dodged. In his joureyman career before his win over buster mathis, frazier was shook or dropped on several occasion, His chin is very bad. Frazier only looks like a bad ass against boxers.
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Frazier was one of the least protected on the way to the title, you ****head. And how many punchers exactly did he dodge? Please don't mention Earnie Shavers, who was dusted by Jerry Quarry in one round and beaten by others such as Ron Stander and Bob Stallings.
He ducked Liston, but that's it. So what? Foreman ducked Quarry. Bowe ducked Lewis. Holmes ducked Page. Ali ducked Spencer. Lewis only fought Holyfield and Tyson when they were old men.Last edited by Frazier's 15th round; 03-03-2007, 07:56 AM.Comment
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People like to pull up obscure slugger type boxers from Frazier's era and claim that Frazier ducked them. You'll hear names like Leotis Martin, Mac Foster, Alvin Lewis, Amos Lincoln, etc.
Martin lost to Floyd McCoy, Jimmy Ellis, Roger Russell, Henry Clark, and Oscar Bonavena. Lewis lost to Bonavena, Martin, and Bob Stallings. Hmm, maybe Frazier ducked Bob Stallings, since Stallings beat all these guys? Stallings had a 32-31 career record. Amos Lincoln was losing every other fight by the time Frazier hit his stride. Thad Spencer, Buster Mathis, Tony Doyle, Terry Daniels, old Liston, all beat him.
Mac Foster would have been a good fight for Frazier to take in '69 or early '70, but he was still beaten by Quarry, and later would lose to, who else, but Bob Stallings.Comment
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I will stick to fighters I actually saw...
Ali
Holmes
Foreman
Holyfeild
Lewis
Frazier
Tyson
In that order...Comment
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1 ali
2 tyson
3 lewis
4 holmes
5 louis
6 liston
7 foreman
8 holyroid
9 bowe
10 jack johsonComment
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My top 10 heavyweight list is:
1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Rocky Marciano
4. Larry Holmes
Elite---------------------------Elite
5. Jack Johnson
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Gene Tunney
8. Joe Frazier
9. Sonny Liston
10. George ForemanComment
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Joe Louis wasn't as "glass" as people make him out to be. I guess his 69 wins with only 3 losses would tell us so. One loss was in the late rounds of a fight when he was green yet, and the other two came when he was a hundred years old. If it was so easy to put him out, then everybody would have been attempting to do so after his first fight with Schmeling. Unfortunately for them, Joe was adept at recovering from a strong punch only to blast his opponent into submission with perfect inside technical boxing. Oh yeah, and his punches weren't cupcakes either.
Frazier was champ during a very brief hiccup in the division's glory years, right before the golden 70's took off. His was a style that wasn't meant to last, however, so he never really came back after his loss to Foreman. Saying that the man had a weak chin, however, is borderline ******ed. The man got blasted by George Foreman repeatedly and was dizzy before his chin gave out; heck, he even got back up five times. The man could take a beating. Any fighter who would have taken the first 4 rounds from Ali that he took in the Fight of the Century would have been out cold.
I think that Tyson fares better in head-to-head matchups than does Foreman, as Foreman stood a chance of being outboxed by a lot of great fighters. The Tyson version 1.0 (a la Rooney) would have stood a technical chance to overcome or simply mow down most champs in history. He even stands a chance to defeat guys like Foreman or Liston where Frazier would have failed simply because Mike fought at mid range, and he could beat them to the punch.
Ali does very well against any era in history, as very few of them contained counterpunchers who could handle his movement.
I think that a fight with Holmes and Foreman would be amazing. Larry liked to entice his opponents to punch, lean away from it, and then hammer a quick, responsive right hand that shook them. This could become very frustrating for Foreman who, as in his fight with Ali, started to position his gloves defensively after being poked a few times. Holmes could also dish out a little more punishment than could Ali, and like against Young, Foreman might just give up.
Lennox Lewis was certainly a great heavyweight, though he never really fought anyone of consequence until they were way beyond their best years. Nonetheless, a guy with his size and skill would stand a chance against nearly anyone on the other side of the ring. The whole Vitali thing was a freaking shame, though.
Rocky Marciano may not have been tested much, but that could also be because he was a.) that good; or b.) had the determination to simply will his way on his opponents no matter if they were outboxing him; or c.) both a.) and b.) in which case, he's a great champion anyway.
And yes, Gene Tunney had more than 80 wins, one loss, and two draws. That's why I put him on my top 10 (11) list. Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, Floyd Patterson, Sam Langford, etc., all round out the top 15, which is really just an extension of the top 10.
Elementary, my friend. You of all people should know that this logic almost NEVER applies to boxing, or sports in general.Originally posted by butterfly1964
I think that eventually Holmes would try to brawl with Foreman, which he always does at some point in a fight, especially if he was hurt. A shot Norton almost beat Holmes, while a prime Norton got destroyed by Foreman, so there you go.Last edited by Brassangel; 03-03-2007, 11:27 PM.Comment
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1. Muhammad Ali
2. Larry Holmes
3. Sonny Liston
4. Lennox Lewis
5. George Foreman
6. Jack Johnson
7. Joe Louis
8. Gene Tunney
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Jack DempseyComment
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