Interesting article from an old Ring magazine

[hemichromis]

An idiot? Fleisher is one of the greatest historians of the sport and stuck up for black fighters throughout his career, promoting Johnso, Louis, Langford, etc. The guy was ****ing great, loved boxing maybe more than anyone in history, and well above people on this forum calling him an idiot because they disagree with his article.

Hell, If I were around, I would be skeptical about rating Ali in the top ten in the early 1970's myself. Ali's career is very impressive as a whole but up until that point he really did not beat anyone in their prime who could be considered a great heavyweight. Many of these opponents were thought to be average or below average and only after they finished their careers did we realize how good a guy like Quarry was in a historical sense. It should also be noted that Muhammad lost to his best opponent at the time, Frazier.

IMO Fleisher was correct. Ali had not proven himself to be a top ten heavyweight by the early 1970's. I can see why he'd be a little irritated that people were trying to hype Ali, who just lost his biggest fight.

As for Fleisher putting Schmeling in at the top ten: Schmeling's greatest win was over Joe Louis, and Frazier's greatest win was over Ali. If Frazier gets so much credit for beating Ali, why not give Schmeling credit for what he did to Louis? I don't agree with Schmeling in the top ten, but he's just under it and in 1970 (before Ali proved his greatness, before Holmes, Foreman Tyson, Lewis) he very well could have been a top ten heavyweight of all time.

You need to hop in your little imaginary time machines go back to early 1970 before you read this article. It's the only subjective way to do it.

NO problem with ali not being in the top ten i only have issues with johnson being number 1 he shouldn't even be in the top ten, as a side note: jack johnson was far more harmful to black boxing than anyone

[butterfly1964]

NO problem with ali not being in the top ten i only have issues with johnson being number 1 he shouldn't even be in the top ten, as a side note: jack johnson was far more harmful to black boxing than anyone

You're a fool.

[hemichromis]

You're a fool.

would you have johnson in the top ten? above men like dempsey louis etc?

johnson accomplished very little he is only recognised as the first major black heavyweight champ but he fought 'has-beens and never-weres'!

[butterfly1964]

would you have johnson in the top ten? above men like dempsey louis etc?

johnson accomplished very little he is only recognised as the first major black heavyweight champ but he fought 'has-beens and never-weres'!

Just because I put him in the top ten doesn't mean I would place him above Louis. I would place him above Dempsey, though.

You say Johnson didn't fight anybody. In that case, then who did Dempsey fight? Johnson's resume is better than Dempsey. Johnson fought and beat all the top black contenders of his time. Dempsey didn't. Johnson had more title defenses, and defended more often.