Appreciating Muhammad Ali

[Mr. Ryan]

It was a good post. Same old Same old to many boxing enthusiast's but there may be people on this forum just starting out with boxing. Therefore, a post like that is never pointless.

Geoff Hayes is just upset because someone stole his cans and now he can't buy a 40 oz tonight.

[JeffM]

Much of what is known about Ali nowadays comes from the mass media, which glorified him because he made their work easier by always giving them something to write about - and because he supported causes that they themselves believed in (anti-war, etc). However, this kind of media is generally a poor source for reliable information on public figures.

The real Ali could be a very intolerant character who, using fight promotion as his cover, often said the most hateful things about members of his own race, let alone others. The very fact that he embraced the Nation of Islam says a lot about his inability to accurately judge other peoples' characters and beliefs.

[Franko]

Much of what is known about Ali nowadays comes from the mass media, which glorified him because he made their work easier by always giving them something to write about - and because he supported causes that they themselves believed in (anti-war, etc). However, this kind of media is generally a poor source for reliable information on public figures.

The real Ali could be a very intolerant character who, using fight promotion as his cover, often said the most hateful things about members of his own race, let alone others. The very fact that he embraced the Nation of Islam says a lot about his inability to accurately judge other peoples' characters and beliefs.

Are you referring to Ali now or in the past? I assume the past as you have mentioned fight promotion.
The media turned against Ali initially when he refused to be inducted into the U.S Army, but obviously they later changed their opinions.
Muhammad Ali came out with some bizarre comments regarding his beliefs and the nation of Islam e.g. 'The white man is devil!' Again, he later changed his opinions.

[ianwigley]

Much of what is known about Ali nowadays comes from the mass media, which glorified him because he made their work easier by always giving them something to write about - and because he supported causes that they themselves believed in (anti-war, etc). However, this kind of media is generally a poor source for reliable information on public figures.

The real Ali could be a very intolerant character who, using fight promotion as his cover, often said the most hateful things about members of his own race, let alone others. The very fact that he embraced the Nation of Islam says a lot about his inability to accurately judge other peoples' characters and beliefs.

Good point

I like your style.

I've argued before that Ali is the boxing equivelant of The Beatles, namely a great act that people snowballed into God-status, when in actual fact there were plenty better.

Make no mistake, he had some great fights, he beat some great boxers, but he also got his arse kicked plenty of times too (not that I'm saying getting beat makes you bad). And what would have happened if his glove wouldn't have been ripped when Henry Cooper knocked Ali senseless in their scrap? Bloody Hell!! Ali didn't even know what time it was after that knockdown, dude sat down on his stool and then got straight back up!!! Would Cooper have finished him off early in the next round? I dunno, as (obviously) does no-one else. But it's always a good pub discussion, ain't it?

There's fodder for thought...

Ian

[gangland_kingpi]

One thing that I really thought was interesting was a quote from Ali's best friend, photographer Howard Bingham. "Even the people who don't like Ali like Ali." That about sums up Ali after all these years. With the stigma of the Vietnam War and his conversion to Islam not only forgotten, but revealed as positive tests of character, Muhammad Ali has become an international symbol of peace and the goodness of the human race. Surprising, given that he shone as the biggest star of the most violent sport.

Ali was more than just a hero in the ring, he was a hero to people of all colors all over the world. Even some 40 years after he initially won the title against Liston and in his current debilitated state, the love and aura of hope that he emitted continues to reverberate through out the world abroad. It's impossible to hate Ali, because even the somewhat malicious things he perpetrated were done with a secret smile of sorts, and it was easy to forgive him for saying/doing things that others would be vilified for. In journalism, it's hard to be objective about him as a fighter, because in reality he was much more than a fighter. He was as much a public figure and domestic diplomat as any other entity in modern history. He was bigger than boxing; he dwarfed life.

There has never been a greater star in boxing, and not too many outside of the ring either. Although human, Muhammad Ali stands in a class of his own and is beyond the constraints of modern perception.

This is an excellent post, it is true Ali was much more than just a fighter. For example, you could talk about Ali in the same sentence as Joe Louis and Sugar Ray Robinson and then in the next sentence Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X and Nelson Mandela.

Ali became a civil rights leader as well as one of the greatest boxers of all time.

Great thread.

[K-DOGG]

One thing that I really thought was interesting was a quote from Ali's best friend, photographer Howard Bingham. "Even the people who don't like Ali like Ali." That about sums up Ali after all these years. With the stigma of the Vietnam War and his conversion to Islam not only forgotten, but revealed as positive tests of character, Muhammad Ali has become an international symbol of peace and the goodness of the human race. Surprising, given that he shone as the biggest star of the most violent sport.

Ali was more than just a hero in the ring, he was a hero to people of all colors all over the world. Even some 40 years after he initially won the title against Liston and in his current debilitated state, the love and aura of hope that he emitted continues to reverberate through out the world abroad. It's impossible to hate Ali, because even the somewhat malicious things he perpetrated were done with a secret smile of sorts, and it was easy to forgive him for saying/doing things that others would be vilified for. In journalism, it's hard to be objective about him as a fighter, because in reality he was much more than a fighter. He was as much a public figure and domestic diplomat as any other entity in modern history. He was bigger than boxing; he dwarfed life.

There has never been a greater star in boxing, and not too many outside of the ring either. Although human, Muhammad Ali stands in a class of his own and is beyond the constraints of modern perception.

Nice Tribute.

...can't give K to Hot Topic.

[Oasis_Lad]

Good point

I like your style.

I've argued before that Ali is the boxing equivelant of The Beatles, namely a great act that people snowballed into God-status, when in actual fact there were plenty better.

Make no mistake, he had some great fights, he beat some great boxers, but he also got his arse kicked plenty of times too (not that I'm saying getting beat makes you bad). And what would have happened if his glove wouldn't have been ripped when Henry Cooper knocked Ali senseless in their scrap? Bloody Hell!! Ali didn't even know what time it was after that knockdown, dude sat down on his stool and then got straight back up!!! Would Cooper have finished him off early in the next round? I dunno, as (obviously) does no-one else. But it's always a good pub discussion, ain't it?

There's fodder for thought...

Ian

juyjuy

name one band that had made more classic albums than the beatles.
that's right you cant. the beatles are the greatest band ever

[LondonRingRules]

This is an excellent post, it is true Ali was much more than just a fighter. For example, you could talk about Ali in the same sentence as Joe Louis and Sugar Ray Robinson and then in the next sentence Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X and Nelson Mandela.

Ali became a civil rights leader as well as one of the greatest boxers of all time..

** Oh please, keep the bathroom duties in the bathroom por favor!

Ali completely abandoned Malcolm X and even indicated Malcolm deserved his assassination.

Ali wasn't no civil rights leader, he was a magnetic athlete who spoke out, often ignorantly, on the politics of the day. Maybe you ain't studied up, but Joe Louis was more popular with both black and white Americans, and actually did more for black civil rights behind the scenes than Ali could ever with his mouth.

Ali gets plenty of props, both now and in his day, and has become more dignified in the face of his illness, so let's not beat a dead horse that Ali wasn't or isn't appreciated.

[gangland_kingpi]

** Oh please, keep the bathroom duties in the bathroom por favor!

Ali completely abandoned Malcolm X and even indicated Malcolm deserved his assassination.

Ali wasn't no civil rights leader, he was a magnetic athlete who spoke out, often ignorantly, on the politics of the day. Maybe you ain't studied up, but Joe Louis was more popular with both black and white Americans, and actually did more for black civil rights behind the scenes than Ali could ever with his mouth.

Ali gets plenty of props, both now and in his day, and has become more dignified in the face of his illness, so let's not beat a dead horse that Ali wasn't or isn't appreciated.

You should read and try to understand peoples posts before refuting them, I didn't mention anything about Ali's relationship with Malcolm X, I merely said you could say both names in the same sentence and context. As for "Ali wasn't no civil rights leader" not intentionally no, but his outspoken nature inadvertently made him one.

Of course "Ali gets plenty of props" and rightly so. What's wrong with giving him some more?

[ianwigley]

juyjuy

name one band that had made more classic albums than the beatles.
that's right you cant. the beatles are the greatest band ever

Dude

The answer is simple to start with....

Oasis

When they released Definitely Maybe and Morning Glory they cleaned The Beatles out. As Noel Gallagher said about Oasis "The best there is, the best there was, the best there ever will be"

The Beatles released one good album (that one with Mean Mr Mustard on), aside from this they were canonised. The Beach Boys, The Kinks, The Rolling Stones, The Smiths and The Stone Roses and too many bands to mention before were ten times better than the Beatles.

The Beatles had a good songwriter or two, and two guys who could just play guitar. They had a **** drummer, and Paul on bass. He was hardly Phil Lynott, was he?

Get over yourself, The Beatles were average. One good song, Yesterday, from that wanker Paul McC. Smells like Take That, one good song an' all that....

If you need a tip, here's where you should be heading - Strangeways Here We Come - The Smiths, it doesn't get much better than this...

Thank me later

Ian