The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling such topics as the highly anticipated heavyweight rematch between WBC champion Deontay Wilder and challenger Tyson Fury, Caleb Plant vs. Canelo Alvarez, and more.
Like most, I can't wait for Fury Wilder II this weekend. I hope (and think) Fury wins on points, but may have to come off the canvas again to edge it.
Jeff Powell, boxing journo in the UK, compiled a ranked list of the biggest punchers ever at HW.
1. Deontay Wilder
2. Mike Tyson
3. Joe Louis
4. Jack Dempsey
5. George Foreman
6. Earnie Shavers
7. Sonny Liston
8. Rocky Marciano
9. Joe Frazier
10. Lennox Lewis
Do you agree Wilder is now the most concussive, lights out puncher in history? Or is too soon to be judged? In the same article, Ben Davidson said watching from ringside, the power emanating from Deontay was savage. And David Haye said sparring him left him continually buzzed and that was with 20oz gloves on.
I know it's all subjective, but any glaring omissions?
Keep up the great work, Joe
Bread’s Response: I wouldn’t argue hard against Wilder being the biggest puncher in heavyweight history. In my personal opinion George Foreman and Joe Louis are the top dogs because they kod HOF level fighters. But Wilder is fast approaching. Everyone on the list has a better variety of KO kill shots but Wilder has that unique gift of being able to land is money shot each and every time out. He really understands how to land that shot. I don’t know if it’s instinctive. Trial and error. Boxing IQ. But he really puts it together.
I see fighters who are really talented but they can’t go to the same thing over and over because they forget how to apply what they saw relating to what they did. At some point in Wilder’s boxing career he saw a tip off action where he realized when to throw his right hand. And now he knows how to do it every single time. He has a special gift.
The excellent Ben Davison says it’s when the opponent raises their lead foot. That may be a tip off but what about the times where he catches a fighter going AWAY from him? I’ve seen Wilder do it off the break where there is a lull in the reaction time. Breazele. I’ve seen him catch fighters off the turn like he just did Luis Ortiz. I’ve seen him catch guys coming in like Spiika. I’ve seen him catch guys going away like he did Fury. The one thing I’ve noticed is that the punch has the same rhythm of delivery.
I like the list you sent in but I would change it slightly. Most list are subjective so…
Please give your insight in addressing these maters . Just bewilderment on my part that three fighters at Super MW Plant , BJS , Callum Smith would all turn down a chance to fight Canelo in May . This may be the most lucrative fight these three will ever get . Plus you get a shot at beating him . Now I hear that BJS may take the fight . You said he has a style you don't pick , and that makes sense to me . So none this adds up , please help .
GGG is in trouble , I think he left home (Abel) and things aren't as good anymore . I never thought Banks was the right fit for him . He should go back to Abel and pay him and start a new deal . He went to Conte at SNAC and now is injured, just bad karma . Maybe Davison could help him . He is getting past it and may get hurt . He should just fight Murata in Japan and retire . Forget the Canelo fight .
Canelo vs Calzaghe at 168
Canelo vs Tony Zale at 160 (does Zale even have a chance)
I thought Ken Norton beat Ali in all three fights .
Thanks , and have a good one .
Bread’s Response: You know people try to discredit Ali’s career by saying he never beat Ken Norton. I know exactly where that came from. But I’ve watched all 3 fights. And I will tell you they were all razor ridiculously close. A draw was in order for one or two of them. And Ali won the 2nd fight as clear as any of them. But I choose to give Ali credit for fighting a killer who was obviously a stylistic nightmare 3x. Twice in non title fights. How many A side fighters in history would have done that? You can barely get a fighter to take a real eliminator in this watered down era.
Here is the thing about the Canelo sweepstakes. I really don’t know what each fighter is being offered. So it’s hard to say. I assume around 8 million. I’m just guessing but I think that’s an issue because Jacobs and Kovalev got more. All 3 of those fighters would want to get closer to what Danny Jacobs and Sergey Kovalev made or more. They feel as though they are undefeated fighters in their primes. They need the status of their belts.
I don’t want to lump each case together. I feel as though Callum Smith because he fights on DAZN would be the easiest fight to make. But he just struggled badly in his last fight so therefore confidence could be an issue.
BJ Saunders seems to be in limbo and he looked shaky in his last fight also. He seems to be ready to take the fight.
Caleb Plant just fought. I personally think 9 weeks is enough time considering he barely got touched in his last fight. But it’s not just the training time. It’s the mental preparation for such a great fighter like Canelo. They would have media obligations and it would be a Super Fight. This would be Plant’s deep water baptizing. I’m not saying he shouldn’t take the fight. I would because I think Plant can win. He’s bigger than Mayweather and has some of those same qualities. But I understand why Plant said no. He wants a real offer. He wants time that he’s comfortable with. Again it’s not just getting in shape. It’s getting prepared for Canelo’s style. His counters. His tempo. It’s more to it than just getting in shape. Plant wants to win the fight not just take the fight. He wants to be great.
I feel like if they want Caleb Plant, offer him the fight in September and give him adequate time. May 2nd is the date and they are scrambling for opponents in February. That’s an A side trick that I won’t get into but this definitely benefits for Canelo for various reasons. He knows his date. The other fighters don’t because they have to agree to the offer. And as an undefeated in your prime champion, you can’t just take anything. Especially when you are already a millionaire.
So I don’t give Plant the stick I give Saunders and Smith. They got their offers earlier. I also want to point something out you guys won’t like. Demetrius Andrade never got an offer. He would take it. I know he would. What’s the difference between his style and Bj Saunders. If you say Andrade is not exciting, Saunders isn’t either. Andrade is a better puncher than Saunders, he scores more knockdowns, knockouts and he would take the fight. Fans seem to be in an uproar of who won’t fight Canelo but DAZN has an undefeated fighter who is wasn’t offered the fight….
And for the record I think Canelo is a great fighter. A HOF. I think highly of Caleb Plant. He’s one of my favorite up and coming champions. BJ Saunders is a hot n cold talented undefeated fighter. And So is Callum Smith. But Demetrius Andrade has done more than all 3 to deserve the Canelo lottery. Let’s not make this a racial based argument either. If we talk about who deserves what and what styles match up, anything that BJ Saunders can be offered, Demetrius Andrade can be offered.
I think Jonathon Banks is a tremendous trainer. He knows the game. GGG is old for a clean fighter. You have to take that into consideration. I think Abel Sanchez is a great HOF trainer. But GGG was struggling with Abel also. Age and elite competition does that. It may not be Sanchez’s or Banks’s fault. Sometimes a fighter slips.
KARMA is a real thing to me. But I don’t want to start designating who will get Karma and who won’t. I don’t know everything behind the scenes with fighters and their teams. But I will speak in general on something that I have observed overall.
A fighter has a right to leave a coach. If he feels he needs something different then leave, it’s his right. He may be wrong for blaming the coach for him not being good enough but nevertheless it’s his right. We will find out who’s fault it is as the fighter’s career moves on. Fighters always need someone to blame after they lose. That’s the business.
What a fighter doesn’t have the right to do is under pay or USE the coach. Fighter’s are users by nature and coaches are givers by nature. A coach takes his percentage. That percentage is usually on the average 10%. Some coaches manage and do more so they deserve to get paid more. In some cases the fighter makes so much money they can afford to pay the coach a nice flat fee. But it’s never ok to underpay a coach. No elite level head coach worth anything morally will take under 5%. Once you do that, you screw up the market value of the job. I’ve seen this happen often. I trainer takes 10% when the fighter is making 10k. But when the fighter makes 1 million then the fighter wants to pay the coach a flat rate. No F@#$% way. Go kick rocks. I’ve also seen fighters take information and knowledge from a coach knowing he’s not going to stay with him. Another disingenuous fighter move.
I thought GGG and Abel Sanchez were a great team. I thought the SYSTEM screwed them over and GGG got his big fights too late. I know Abel loved GGG and treated him like a son. I hate to see them break up. But it’s boxing. Fighters have unique mindsets and sometimes you have to move on. I’m sure they both think they are right. I don’t know….
Calzaghe over Canelo. Canelo over Zale.
Hello Breadman !
Hope you're doing good.
I've seen your comment on twitter about Caleb Plant, I also think he might be the biggest threat at 168. The variety of punches he can throw is impressive, he turns an uppercut to a left hook, a jab to a hook, etc, with an amzing speed (and some pop !). I think he would outbox Benavidez, I don't know if he could stop him because David is tough but he could do some damages. But at the same time, Benavidez could turn the fight with one flurry. Hope you will get to see that one ! A fight vs Billy Joe Saunders would be interesting, I would like to see how he performs vs that kind of style.
I think Caleb has that "Andre Ward" type of focusing and of keeping the control of the situation before the fight (mind game).
What do you think about Joshua vs Pulev ? I think that may be the perfect fight to see if he style has that dog mentality (like in the Klitschko fight). He's gonna be in the ring with a guy who's not afraid to trade punches and who fights dirty. He fought an intelligent fight in the rematch vs Ruiz, he was in control of the fight but I think he was afraid also really afraid to trade punches.
I hope he wins that one and get his confidence back.
What did you think about Alexis Rocha ?
Thanks for your time !
Max from France
Bread’s Response: I am very high on Caleb Plant. I picked him to beat the Uzi. A lot of people went against me. But I felt it in my guts he was the goods. I’m very big on a fighter’s support group and mental focus. If a fighter allows himself to be structured in a way where all he has to do is concentrate on boxing and he has elite level skills he should flourish. Plant has the coach, the strength coach, the management, a supportive boxing wife and most importantly the talent. Very similar to Andre Ward. Structure is the word. The boxing ring is a truth machine. It tells everything.
I also favor Plant over Benavidez but I do think he will have to dig deep. Benavidez has extremely fast hands, he has a killer mean streak and he’s physically tough. But my eyes tell me he comes OUT of position too much with his feet to beat Plant. It’s just a bad style for him. I think it’s a 50/50 fight but I favor Plant by decision.
Plant vs Saunders would not be a pleasing fight. I think it would be a stinker. But who knows. Maybe Plant can walk him down.
I think Joshua is the type of fighter you have to judge on a fight by fight basis. He’s extremely talented but extremely vulnerable.
Hello Breadman! Hope all is well! Got a quick question for you...
We’ve all heard the saying “Styles make fights” but do you think it’s equally true that “personalities make fights”? A friend and I were having this discussion the other day. I argued that some of the greatest fights in history were a clash of personalities as well as styles. Just how many do you think there are? I’m sure there are more, but I can think of three off the top of my head: Clash of Egoes (Wilder-Fury), Iceman vs Hothead (Lomachenko-Lopez), and Banker vs Brick Layer (Leonard-Duran)... all pretty self explanatory, I guess.
Is there something to this, Bread? I don’t see something like this discussed like the clash of styles angle? If so, are there more than these three types? I mean, Ali-Frazier is a great rivalry due as much to personalities as styles, don’t you think?
Bread’s Response: Hell yes. Personality clashes are just as important as styles. Whenever I see Intimidators I look for spiritual fighters to overcome them. Foreman vs Ali. Tyson vs Holyfield.
When I see a fighter who is an overthinker. A fighter who is all over the place with his style and personality, I look for steadiness to overcome or trouble him. Look at Oscar De La Hoya vs Tito. As much as Oscar won that first fight, he came apart because Tito just stayed the course and stuck to it.
Prideful fighters I look for the fighter who has the heart to embarrass them. Roy Jones embarrassed James Toney. Ray Leonard embarrassed Roberto Duran.
Front Running fighters. Fighters who are excellent early. Fighters who come out steaming. They don’t like quiet confidence that can’t be intimidated. Watch how Floyd Mayweather handled Zab Judah’s early rush. Simon Brown did it twice. He did it vs Tysone Trice and no one noticed. Then in his biggest win he handled Terry Norris’s early rush then he smoked him. I can go on about this all day. I see it everyday in the gym and in real fights.
We missed a great fight in Loma-Garcia. I believe I saw in a past mailbag you said it could’ve been one of the best lightweight matches of all time. Why did it not happen? Did someone not want the fight? I mean, I know Mikey had problems with Top Rank... at times coming off as resentful... but that could’ve been a legacy-defining fight.
I make no secret the fact that Lomachenko is my favorite boxer at the moment... but I don’t know if I completely buy the idea that Mikey ducked Loma. I mean it does look suspicious in hindsight... Mikey is at 135 while Loma is at 130, then goes up to 140 not long before Loma moves up to 135, comes back down to 135 to unify against Easter... then goes up to 147 for Spence rather than fight Loma for undisputed at 135. Would a win over Spence have been more impressive? Considering the weight jump, absolutely. But to move up to 147 rather than unify with the best at 135... and throw in a satisfying victory over the promoters he fought so hard to get away from... it gives off the perception of avoidance (and boxing, being a subjective sport, is a place where perception is often reality). Was Mikey ducking? Or is he just that resentful to Top Rank that he would refuse to fight any Top Rank fighter? Was Loma being protected by his promoters... or is that just haters talking? Considering Loma’s ambition, as well as the fact he’s looking to fight a dangerous fighter in Lopez, I refuse to believe that Loma was ducking Mikey. What do you think of all this, Mr. Edwards? How do you think a Loma-Garcia match would’ve gone down? I say flip a coin on that one.
Apologies for the length, but I’ve been sitting on this one for a while now. Input from a professional such as yourself would be appreciated.
Bread’s Response: I don’t know if Mikey Garcia ducked Loma but it is a fight that could have been made. Garcia did fight Errol Spence so….
I think it would have been top 5 biggest lightweight fights in history. Duran vs DeJesus3, Williams vs Jack title fight, Chavez vs Rosario and Garcia vs Loma would have been right there. It’s a shame this fight wasn’t made. It’s the lightweight Bowe vs Lewis.
I really don’t know who would’ve won. I thought it was a super close fight. Mikey has a quick attack, good balance and physicality over Loma. Loma is the better natural athlete and his foot quickness would be a factor. This is the thing that made this fight so intriguing. They were of equal status, roughly same age close to the same weight. Shame!
Wilder vs Fury? Give me your pick and how?
Bread’s Response: I like Wilder by ko shot behind the left ear. I notice that Fury ducks down to his right to avoid Wilder’s right hand. Unless he comes up with a way to stop losing sight of Wilder he’s going to get clipped behind the ear. The two knockdowns were clips behind the ear.
If Fury can take that shot without getting stopped he has Ali level guts and mindset. I just think the mental pressure of avoiding that kill shot will be too much. I think Fury is talking about going for the ko for two reasons. One is he could be tricking Wilder. If he’s not I think he knows 36 minutes is too long to play defense vs Wilder. Fury's best shot in my opinion is to figure out a way to block or stymy that right hand. Rolling it the way he does, looks pretty but it's so dangerous.
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