By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling topics such as Errol Spence's dominating victory over Mikey Garcia, Spence's statements to Oscar De La Hoya, heavyweight prospect Efe Ajagba, the future pf Errol Spence, and more.
What do you think of Errol Spence’s comments after the fight? In case you didn’t read them after Oscar De La Hoya publicly solicited him, he told Oscar you don’t treat black fighters good. He also said that Team Garcia was trash talking him and he was motivated by it. Then he challenged George Foreman and other ex great black fighters who picked Garcia over him.
Bread’s Response: Ok I will go one question at a time and not CLUMP everything together.
Errol had just won the biggest fight of his life and I assume he was extremely emotional. Training is a build up, the fight is the display and post fight is the RELEASE. So I get Errol being somewhat open and emotional.
I don’t blame Errol for what he said to Oscar De La Hoya. Oscar was a great fighter and I respect him for that. But Oscar knows that it’s inappropriate to openly go after a fighter that is affiliated or signed with another company. I assume Errol was offended by Oscar’s comments so he offended Oscar. As far as the not treating black fighters well. I can’t speak for every black fighter that has ever signed with Oscar. Someone would have to take a survey. What I will say is that there is an underlying thought that what Errol said is true. I have heard Errol’s sentiments before “off the record.” Again I can’t say if it’s true or not. But Al Haymon’s fighters are for the most part loyal to him and it’s highly unlikely that one at the level of Spence would leave Haymon for Oscar.
I don’t think Team Garcia was disrespectful or trash talked Errol Spence. I honestly don’t. They had confidence in their guy and they were openly confident just like Team Spence was openly confident. What are they supposed to say?
But I don’t blame Errol for using whatever he had to use for fuel. That is what a fighter is supposed to do. Use everything as fuel. So that’s no biggie, that’s Errol’s fighter’s mentality.
I also don’t blame Errol for feeling some type of way that black fighters picked him against him. He used George Foreman, Mike Tyson’s and Ray Leonard’s comments as fuel. But I also don’t think they have to pick Errol just because he’s black. I think it offended Errol that they didn’t seem to support him not just picking against him. The Latino boxing community was riding with Mikey. Errol wanted the same support.
Here are a few things I think about that. Boxing is tribal. Race, Nationality, Cultural and Regional allegiance takes place. It’s just how it is. Most likely if you see two guys fighting in the streets and you don’t know either one, you subconsciously root for the one that you can relate to the most. So Errol didn’t feel the support from his fellow black fighters. I feel him on that but I’m also not upset with the HOF black fighters for not picking him. Errol has a right to feel how he wants and they have a right to pick who they think will win.
I do find it peculiar though that they would pick Mikey to beat Errol considering how much of an underdog Mikey was. It’s interesting to say the least.
Also if I were Errol I wouldn’t be upset because 80% of the ex fighters, are not good at analyzing fights, picking fights, training fighters and just have an overall great understanding of boxing. Most are just gifted fighters. Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you can teach someone to do it or analyze why someone can do it. Andre Ward, Paul Malignaggi and Roy Jones are anomalies in the boxing world. So if ex fighters were picking against Errol, if I’m Errol that would make me happy because most times they’re wrong. On top of that it brings intrigue to the fight. If everyone thinks you will slaughter your opponent it takes away the intrigue of the fight. So it’s also about perspective.
There is saying that goes, “Never meet your idols. Because they may not live up to what you thought they were.”
I’m not saying Errol Spence idolized Mike Tyson, Ray Leonard and George Foreman. But I do assume he somewhat looked up to them. Especially Ray Leonard. Errol brings Leonard up all the time in complimentary comments. George Foreman is from Texas and he’s an Olympian…So is Errol. So they may have hurt Errol’s feelings a little bit. Things happen man. I know because I have had it done to me.
Stand up Errol Spence. I’m glad he spoke on how he felt. But don’t take it to personal. As you get older you will be able to compartmentalize just about anything.
What up B? Hey look I’m gone jump straight to it Errol Spence Junior FK’D up a lot of people’s plans Saturday! And even though he didn’t get the KO his stock went up Big time. Dude just shut his naysayers down who claim he gets hit to much and can’t Box! Sad part is B they already moving the goal post like they always do to Urban fighters! At first Cats was like if it goes 12 Mickey out Boxes Errol. Well it went twelve and Errol was the better Boxer in every category! Errol last night showed that he isn’t just a problem he’s a Got damn nightmare!
I hope Mickey is ok going forward and that beating doesn’t take to much of him. Before the fight it was said if he makes it to the final bell, that in itself is a moral victory! I disagree! We love his heart and courage but he made it to the final Bell because he didn’t press for the win, essentially Mickey went into survival mode, and that’s the only reason IMO HE SURVIVED! I thought Robert should have ended it!
Did you hear what ESJ said about Black legends who don’t support the fighters of their race, like legends from other races do there fighters? What’s your opinion on that comment? Also I think ESJ and Porter will Be next! I do not believe for one minute the Pac-Man is going to fight Errol! I won’t believe it tell I see it. The money would have to be sick for Pac let’s hope I’m wrong but give us your opinion? If they do hook up I see him dominating Manny in nearly the same way. I think Pacs speed will be a problem early, but once he’s timed the arse whooping will commence! After last night talk to us B about Spence and Crawford, what do you see happening in that fight? Was last night Spence’s coming out party B? Will the top guys have to face him now? Or do they still make excuses or look passed Errol?
Oh an B talk to us about the Debilitating effect of Body punching during a fight, and the long time effects Body punishment has on a fighters career?
Hope to hear back from you Sir As Salam Alaikum!
Bread’s Response: I don’t think the plans were messed up at all. I think the PBC had both of the guys so that’s always a win/win. Errol is a black urban fighter from Dallas. They fought in Dallas. So the upside is Errol is a star now and he has a grassroots fan base. He’s also younger than Mikey Garcia and he will eventually move up and become a viable option for Canelo.
If Mikey wins you have a Latino Star who beat a black fighter in a huge fight which rarely happens. That’s always a plus. Mikey would also get more fights at 147 because he’s smaller and perceived as more vulnerable stylistically. So I thought it was a win/win. Also Errol was a 3 to 1 favorite for a reason. So I don’t think the people behind the scenes thought Mikey would win, more than they thought Errol would.
Now that Mikey has lost and lost conclusively, he won’t be as hard to negotiate with. No fighter is after a lost. So we disagree with that one.
Errol’s stock did go up. He didn’t get the ko but he won every round vs a top 10 P4P guy.
I give Mikey props for going the distance but he didn’t open up as much as some would want. Some times you just can’t get off. Some great fighters have been in that spot. James Toney vs Roy Jones, Felix Trinidad vs Winky Wright. Sometimes a fighter just throws you off and you can’t get your punches off comfortably. That’s a nuance of boxing.
I heard what Errol had to say about the black legends. I see both sides. Obviously you want support among your people. At the same time they have a right to pick who they think will win. It’s a tough call honestly. No one is right. I personally think there is etiquette to that. I assume Errol didn’t feel supported. Errol most likely felt the Latinos are riding with their guy, how come the blacks aren’t riding with me…
I think Manny would fight Errol. Manny does not have the spirit of FEAR in him. I can tell you’re not a Manny fan and that’s ok. But that dude fears no man. You don’t ask for Margarito in 8 oz gloves, giving up 20lbs+ when you could have worn 10oz gloves and fear anything. But boxing is not always about that. Manny’s team will have to weigh their options. Sean Gibbons is a smart guy. They may want Manny to make 20 million in a fight where he would be the 3 to 1 dog to lose. They may take a fight in which Manny’s style matches up better vs Danny Garcia or Keith Thurman. I would pick Errol to win again. His length would be too much. But I’m telling you now, Manny would do better than Mikey did. Mikey is an elite level skill fighter. But Manny is elite in athleticism and skill. He has freakish god given athleticism. Errol would have a harder fight on his hands.
I think Errol’s next opponent will be Manny or Shawn Porter. I’m not sure which order.
I think Errol Spence has been ducked and will continue to be ducked. That fight showed he can dominate without committing for the kill and use his jab. That will make other fighters come up with more excuses not to fight. Fighters always deserve as much money as they can make for a fight. So I won’t use the word overcompensate. But I will say in order for fighters to fight Errol they will need about 50% over market value to fight him. In essence they will most likely want that or they won’t fight him.
Manny deserves between 15-20million. No one else can sniff that number in the PBC universe.
Let’s see what happens.
Body shots are totally different from head shots. They diffuse your organs. They slow you down. They sap energy without always actually hurting. They make you stiff. Your energy comes from your GUT, it’s the reason why an athlete makes noises and his stomach clinches whenever he exerts a great amount of energy.. Errol kept hitting Mikey with a straight left hand gut shot. It wasn’t the kind of shot that knocks you out. But it saps you. Mikey had no snap in his punches as that fight went on because of those body shots. Errol did a great job.
Whats up Breadman,
Ive written in a few times and read weekly. I said whats up to you in NY at the Wilder-Ortiz fight. I gave you props on the mailbag and talked about the fights a little bit. Your prediction are so on point so often they are almost like a spoilers alerts cause it usually happens lol.
What i wanted to ask/ talk about was how Mikey was about 4 inches shorter than Errol Spence to me it seemed like that was one of the main deciding factors. Spence could unload from spots where Mikey couldn’t touch him. ESJ was also more athletic so he could stay in spots where he was safe.
The height difference made me think about Wilder and the heavyweights. Wilder is not a big heavyweight weights wise as his last fights he weighed in at 209 and 214, giving up about 20-30 pounds per fight. it seems like heavyweights have a particularly tough time dealing with the height advantage of fighters like Joshua, Wilder, and Fury. It seems like all the heavyweights that are above say 6’4'' 6’5’’ separate themselves from the rest of heavyweights. the heavyweight over 6’5’’ish can often hit their opponents from a spot where they are still safe. This also seemed to be the case with David Benevidas as well, who looked impressive on the undercard of the Spence fight.
Can you think of important fights where fighters over came huge height and reach advantages? Do you think height is more important than weight in some cases. what can fighters do to overcome height advantages? It seems like i hear a lot of trainers just say to “go for it” but it seems a lot easier said than done when you're at a height and reach disadvantage. Are there any heavyweight of yesteryear that you think could deal with the height advantage of the heavyweights today?
Also on a different subject i thought Broner lost vs Pacquiao but i thought it was interesting that the judges collectively gave him 7 different rounds. the fight was scored a lot closer than i thought. Granted the judges only agreed that Broner won 1 round in the 10th but Broner got credit in a lot of spots in that fight . Im not mad at Broner for thinking he won he was just giving himself the benefit of the doubt.
Thanks for your time and sharing your boxing Knowledge!
Bread’s Response: Broner didn’t beat Pac. He was controlled and outpointed. Maybe because he wasn’t brutalized like some of Pac’s other opponents he took it as a victory but Pac won that fight.
There have been lots of fights where the height difference didn’t matter. Pryor vs Arguello. Leonard vs Hearns. Hagler vs Hearns. Duran vs Barkley. Loma vs Linares. Frazier vs Foster. Tyson vs Biggs, Mayweather vs De La Hoya, Tyson vs Ruddock. Holyfield vs Bowe.
Literally I could give you hundreds of fights where a fighter has overcame 3 inches in height and reach.
I think height is important but I will tell you what is more important, length. There is a difference. Boxers aren’t shooting at a basket over their heads. They are aiming at a target in front of them. So length and how far one can touch horizontally is more important than height.
But it’s not the end all. Miguel Cotto, Vasyl Lomachenko, Marvin Hagler, Aaron Pryor, Mike Tyson, Joe Frazier and Dwight Qawi overcame height and reach all the time. Their timing, technique and tenacity allowed them to overcome.
Yes I think Joe Frazier 5’11, George 6’3, Larry Holmes 6’3, Muhammad Ali 6’3 and Joe Louis 6’2, would fair well today with the bigger heavyweights over 6’5.
Errol has the arms of a man 6ft tall. So he has fairly long arms for a man 5’9. Not gangly long, but pretty long for his height. If he were exactly proportioned his arms would be 69 inches. His length killed Mikey. It was the deciding factor. Mikey just couldn’t collapse the pocket vs Errol.
It was a combination of many things. It was length. It was power. It was physicality. It was IQ. It was Errol being excellent. Errol fought a disciplined fight and he didn’t over engage. He minimized Mikey’s chances.
Make no mistake it was everything. Some say it was skill and not size. It was both. If Errol was a natural lightweight, Mikey wouldn’t have felt the punches the way he did. The impact of the shots disciplined Mikey from selling out. Easter, is longer and taller than Errol but Mikey walked through him because Easter didn’t threaten Mikey the way Errol did. Errol realized his advantages and he stayed true to them.
looks like they’re lining Manny up for Spence now (Boxing is a cruel cruel sport). This is a fight that I personally would prefer that they didn’t make, reason being that I love Manny and don’t want to see him taking any unnecessary punishment at this stage of his career. This fight reminds me of Manny V Margarito in terms of the size / physicality difference, with Spence being a more well-rounded fighter than Margarito and just as relentless. I’ve seen you mention this in previous mail bags so I know you’ll agree that although Manny beat the crap out of Margarito, the fight took a lot out of both fighters and Manny hasn’t been the same since. With the intensity of Spence, I can’t see how Manny could opt to box him for 12 rounds the way he has in his more recent performances. Manny has the heart of a lion and his natural philosophy is kill or be killed. At some point he’s going to have to go all in and I’m concerned that this approach would not end well for him. To be clear, I’m not saying that Manny couldn’t win the fight, what I am saying is that win or lose, the potential risks to Manny’s health is too high. What I will say is that if Manny steps up and fights Spence next, the other 147 lb’ers should hang their heads in shame. Interested to hear your opinion on this fight being made and how you think it plays out.
Thanks in advance and keep up the good work,
Dylan from Switzerland.
Bread’s Response: I will admit the ducking of Spence has been shameful. But Because he’s still a relatively new champion it gets overlooked. But when have you ever seen a fighter of his caliber have 8 to 10 viable opponents in the same stable for 7 years and only fight one who really had no bargaining leverage in Lamont Peterson. What I mean by that is every fighter who didn’t have to fight Errol Spence in order to make good money, didn’t. Lamont Peterson deserves credit for stepping up. People give the credit to Mikey, but Peterson was the 1st fighter in PBC that stepped to fight Errol.
Have you ever seen a young talent like Spence not get one aging vet in his own stable while rising as a prospect?
Errol was designated to go to the UK to go after the IBF belt because PBC wanted control of the division and no one else could have beaten Brook at that time. So Errol has been rewarded for his courage to do the job. Have you ever seen so many fighters look down upon the IBF belt? I mean that belt was good was good enough for Larry Holmes and Aaron Pryor. The two all time greats who carried it initially. It was good enough for Roy Jones, James Toney and Bernard Hopkins who challenged for the title in multiple weight divisions to create the lineage. But when Spence got the IBF title at 147, it was treated like a secondary belt. I observe everything.
Errol Spence has now headlined his own PPV, sold out a huge crowd and he’s the man in the division. But Manny Pacquiao has more options than him because more fighters will fight Manny. It’s just how it is.
I think Manny will fight him. I think Terence Crawford will fight him. I think Jaron “Boots” Ennis will fight him. I think Shawn Porter will fight him. Manny is 40 and aging. Crawford is with Top Rank. And Ennis is deemed too young and not deserving of a shot which is true. Ennis doesn’t have a top 25 win yet. His handlers need to get him moving. Porter is the champion but I think people will complain because the fans love undefeated records and Keith Thurman is undefeated and he has a win over Porter.
Money talks. The rest of the division will have to be paid very handsomely to fight Errol Spence.
Boxing can solve this. They can make champions of opposing sanctioning bodies, mandatories for their belts. Very simple. I hope Spence gets the fights he deserves. Or he may have to move up to 154lb. I know 7 or 8 fighters at 154 that will fight him. The mentality is different because those guys don’t view Errol as a bulldozer.
Typically pressure fighting as a style is taken up by boxers who are short for their weight class and outfighting is taken up by taller boxers. I can think of multiple bouts wherein an A+ level outfighter outboxed a taller pressure fighter with longer arms. Pep vs Saddler 2 being the greatest example of that. Infighting generally favors shorter boxer and with smaller arms but I can still think of a few fights wherein an A+ level pressure fighter defeated another A+ level pressure fighter with shorter arms and lesser height. Tua vs Ibeabuchi is a good example. Despite being taller and rangier Ibeabuchi did slightly better than Tua during infighting. I can also think of a few more examples.
Having said that, I really cannot think of a fight involving 2 A+ level outfighters in their prime wherein the shorter outfighter with shorter arms won. Ali vs Young comes to mind but Ali got the nod. Hurtado vs Whittaker comes to mind but Whittaker won by taking the fight to him. Leonard vs Norris comes to mind but Leonard was shot. Can you think of historical bout wherein 2 P4P top 10 level outfighters fought each in their prime and the short guy outboxed his taller opponent?
Bread’s Response: Great question and it will go over most heads. A fight where two out fighters fought and the shorter one won. Pernell Whitaker vs Roger Mayweather. Ray Leonard vs Tommy Hearns. Floyd Mayweather vs Oscar De La Hoya. Roy Jones vs Antonio Tarver. Michael Spinks vs Larry Holmes. Roy Jones vs Virgil Hill. Muhammad Ali vs Ernie Terrell. Andre Ward vs Carl Froch. Manny Pacquiao vs Oscar De La hoya.
What do ya think?
Hey bread, question for your next mailbag.
I'm watching nery vs arroyo and nery is a monster both size and muscle mass. I'm finding it hard to give him any credit due to his positive ped testing. My question is do you think it's possible for cheaters to ever redeem themselves? What do you make of guys caught cheating with diuretics who continue to campaign at the same weight?
Bread’s Response: Once you test positive for PEDS especially in your prime, it will always haunt you. I personally feel like once a fighter cheats, and it’s proven that he knowingly cheated, then his career comes into question. But no one actually cares that has power. Because proven cheaters always get more opportunities.
I respect Luis Nery he’s an elite talent. But I also question his accomplishments. Circumstantial and literal evidence shows…….
A little while ago I wrote regarding consensus round scoring as a way to improve the fairness and reliability of scoring. I checked Porter-Ugas and consensus scoring for Porter-Ugas would have had it 115-115 without the knockdown.
DeLuca - Young - Morrow
1 - PUP P10 U9
2 - UUP P19 U19
3 - PPU P29 U28
4 - UUU P38 U38
5 - PUP P48 U47
6 - UPP P58 U56
7 - UUP P67 U66
8 - PUU P77 U77
9 - PPP P87 U86
10 - UUP P96 U96
11 - PUP P106 U105
12 - PUU P115 U115
Also, big props to Katie Taylor. The only thing better than her skillset inside the ring is her class outside of it.
Bread’s Response: I love the consensus scoring idea along with 5 judges. It actually makes scoring more objective. But let’s work out the kinks. How do we score the knockdown rounds in consensus scoring? How do we figure out 2 point rounds because consensus scoring won’t? If you can give me an idea we can push the agenda right here on boxingscene.
Katie Taylor can bump. I like her too.
Hey bread what is good ?? I haven’t written in since the btalk days but read every Saturday . My favourite part of the weekend besides the fights and my family that’s for sure !! Haha . I just wanted to touch base on efe ajagba . People are going off about this kid . I see a potential future champion but iam not sure I see greatness yet . Yes he has undeniable power , and his win over mansour was a great step up , but it doesn’t make him a world beater like some are making out . People are forgetting filip smoked mansour the fight before ( with less fights on his resume ) and Amir is now 46 and likely has gotten old in the last year , and was never more than a fringe contender ( not to discredit mansour , he was great to watch , and I was always rooting for him ) . Ajagba showed great patience and good balance and insane power that is not deniable . But to be considered the next big thing he’s going to have to show a little more . That he can take a punch and face other forms of adversity . I did like seeing him go to the body in a few of his fights when inside , and like his form , he turns his punches over really nice . I still have to see him use that insane 88” reach a little more ( develope his jab that has great potential ) , and fight someone who’s gonna fight back and has next level skills . I did see him open to some big counters but Amir at this stage wasn’t the guy to pull the trigger on those . With a a lot of great prospects on the way up ( filip , dubious , Yoka , ajagba , amongst others ) I can see a great division shaping up in the next few years , as the champions seem to have quite a bit of life left in them too . Assuming that the right fights get made and the politics don’t get in the way we could all be in for treat !!! Back to my main question tho , what do you think of ajagba from the little we have seen so far ?? Iam excited to watch but I don’t see him winning a title in a year like some , but I’d like to hear a breakdown of his skills / style from those next level eyes of yours !! And ask who you think has the most potential out of the current young guns on the way up ?
Thanks bread ,
Judo in Vancouver Canada .
Bread’s Response: I think Efe is one of the best prospects in all of boxing. But he’s still young so you don’t want to go crazy with praise. He’s a little green in certain areas but he looks like he’s going to be a player. Ronnie Shields is doing a great job developing him. Let’s see how he develops. Matchmaking will be important. I can see him fighting Gerald Washington or Chris Arreola before the year is out.
Out of the young guys I like Efe, Tony Yoka and Duboise from the UK. But I am curious to see if any of them will develop as fast as Anthony Joshua. We are in an Golden Era at heavyweight. I hope politics doesn’t ruin it.
What's up Bread?
I'm sure you will be bombarded with questions about Errol Spence Jr. and his impressive shutout of Mikey Garcia so I would just like to briefly chime in with this: Errol Spence Jr. deserves full credit for his victory. I know that Garcia moved up in weight for the opportunity but Spence showed some dimensions to his game. He didn't simply eat shots and break Mikey down through a war of attrition as expected. He controlled distance and made it look easy and I imagine that the PBC welterweights (Shawn Porter, Keith Thurman, and Danny Garcia specifically) won't be too eager to get in with him. I know that Manny Pacquiao is brave/crazy enough to fight Spence next but I actually think Yordenis Ugas would be the most intriguing fight style-wise because he is huge for the weight and he is a sharp counter-puncher.
What are your thoughts? Who would you like to see Errol Spence Jr. face next?
Also, where do you think Mikey Garcia goes from here? I think he is still one of the best at 135 or even 140 if he doesn't want to go all the way back down.
William in West Palm
Bread’s Response: First off I think Errol needs to fight 3x year for the next two years to make up for lost time. He’s in the driver’s seat. He can write his own tickets. He had to wait for his title shot longer than 6 months and he had to wait for his 1st and 2nd defenses because no one would fight him. So first thing is he needs to fight within 6 months instead of waiting for 6 or more months to fight.
I don’t want to see Spence fight Ugas. I would be happy for Ugas to get the chance but I think Ugas deserves and immediate rematch with Shawn Porter. When you’re the underdog in a fight and more than 80% of the people who watched the fight feel you won, then you deserve a rematch. It’s boxing and it’s no room to feel sorry for anyone but I just feel like Ugas deserves a shot at Porter. But Ugas won’t be able to turn down a 2nd title shot.
It’s so weird because Spence is the champion and he’s at least 1a to Terence Crawford and he has to offer a fight to his contemporaries instead of them going after him. I would like to see him fight his PBC contemporaries at least this year and next year in the spring a super fight with Terence Crawford. But I don’t think things will work out like that. It never does in this era, does it.
Keith Thurman beat Danny Garcia and Shawn Porter so that’s obviously the fight in the PBC universe. But we won’t see that right away.
If Errol can’t get anyone at his weight and he can’t come to terms with Manny I would like to see him move up to 154. He’s 29 and he’s already been inactive. He’s big enough to fight at 154.
Throughout PPV history latino vs black have been a good selling point. Look for Errol vs Omar Figueroa but I wouldn’t count out a Shawn Porter fight.
I think Spence threw Mikey off with his boxing game plan. Mikey thought it would be a war and it wasn’t. Errol boxed him and it was hard for Mikey to deal with. Mikey just couldn’t catch a rhythm outside of the 2nd round.
I don’t know where Mikey goes. Mikey may not be able to make 135 anymore. That’s always an issue when you put on muscle on. The sharks are hovering at 140. Prograis, Taylor and Ramirez are fighters to watch. The PBC does not have big names at 140. I really don’t know where Mikey goes. I think he was all in on winning vs Spence. He may have to be a tweener at welterweight and take on smallish welterweights. He’s already fought Broner. So maybe he could fight Danny Garcia, Manny Pacquiao and Omar Figueroa. It will be interesting to see his next move.
What was you actual score for Spence vs Garcia? I know you really like and respect Doug Fischer but he had it 10-2 Spence. There is no way Garcia won 2 rounds. Dougie is biased and he goes against certain fighters every time and it’s getting disgusting.
By the way I saw your Tweet with your betting slips. Man you’re the truth. You need a website that we can go to make picks. Duke, Spence and the over 9.5 rounds.
Bread’s Response: I actually started a website. www.boxingpick.com You will get all of my boxing picks at a small fee of course. We are like 60-1 over the last 61 fights that we have picked. I’ve been keeping it quiet but since you asked..
I do like Dougie and I didn’t see that tweet. Um maybe that was his score. Why don’t you ask him? He’s on twitter. I thought Spence shut Mikey out. 12-0. The 2nd round was a swing round it could have possibly gone to Mikey so maybe 11-1 tops for me.
We often talk about bad judges. But I want to applaud the judges in Spence vs Garcia. They didn’t overcompensate, they scored what they saw. All 3 had it a shut out. Good job.
What's your opinion of the way Mikey fought vs Spence?
I just want to start by saying I have so much respect for Mikey for jumping up and fighting a killer like Spence, who, as you always point out on here, none of the other welters, at least in the PBC want to fight.
Mikey is a warrior and he deserves credit for going the full 12 rounds. I just thought that he fought a strange fight. He stood in front of Spence way too much and didn't throw nearly enough punches or move his feet and create angles. It didn't seem like there was a game plan from the start or a plan B for later in the fight.
Spence as the bigger guy threw more punches and actually looked quicker. Could that have been down to Mikey being much heavier than his optimum fighting weight and carry too many pounds vs Spence at his natural weight?
I hate to criticise Mikey cos he's a brilliant fighter and a great guy. It was always going to be very tough but it looked as if he was resigned to defeat from the first bell.
Do you think he felt the power and size difference early and decided to just get through the fight rather than go to war, for the sake of his career longevity? e.g. Brook decided to take GGG on in a shoot out and as a result got his eye socket busted up.
Also, don't know if you saw the news from this side of the pond, 2012 Olympic bronze medalist Anthony Ogogo has had to retire after only 12 pro fights due to injuries. He was a serious talent, signed to Golden Boy after the Olympics and big things were expected of him here in the UK. At 30, he would now be in his prime. Real shame.
My question is who were the best fighters who never got to the top or fulfilled their potential, either through injury or problems outside the ring?
As always, I appreciate your insights.
Bread’s Response: Question was a little long but it was good..
I think Mikey had a gameplan but it’s different once you start getting punched in your face. It’s easy to formulate but not easy to execute.
I don’t know if the weight slowed Mikey down. I don’t know Mikey well enough to say that. I would have to see how he looks in the gym and where his weight is in the gym.
I think what through Mikey off was him not being able to put hands on Spence. I have a secret for you. The most demoralizing thing a fighter can go through is not being able to hit his opponent.
Let’s look at Arturo Gatti and Diego Corrales. Gatti took more punishment vs Mickey Ward than he did vs Floyd Mayweather. But he lasted longer because he was hitting Ward back. Diego Corrales took an insane beating vs Jose Luis Castillo. But he did better vs Castillo than he did Mayweather because he was able to hit Castillo and he couldn’t hit Mayweather.
Mikey couldn’t sustain an attack vs Spence and that becomes demoralizing. I think Mikey expected a war in the midrange. I think he expected Spence to try to brutalize him and Spence tried to box him. That’s why in a fight you can’t have preconceived notions.
I think everything Errol brought to the table through Mikey off. He was too big, too long, he boxed too good and he had too much physicality. It was EVERYTHING.
Brook put hands on GGG so he had positive hope that he could win. Brooks success gets overlooked in that fight. But he had hope because of the shots he was landing so he went balls to the wall. Mikey could never get into that type of rhythm. Mikey thought he was getting a savage and he got a scientist.
I saw Anthony Ogogo a few times and he actually trained in Philly. I thought he was decent but I was never blown away with him to be honest. That’s not saying he wouldn’t have been a good pro, I’m just saying that sometimes shortened careers get surrounded by myths of greatness and I didn’t see that Ogogo. Hopefully he makes out and has plenty of success in his post boxing career, he seemed like a nice young man.
Fighter’s who didn’t get to fulfill their potential. In no order…
Salvador Sanchez. My goodness at 23 he was already an all time great. He’s top 5 at featherweight and most likely top 50-75 ever. If he could have fought into his mid 20s and early 30s he had a real chance to be a top 5-10 fighter ever. Think about the weight divisions and time he fought. He died in 1982. He was a featherweight.
He didn’t get a chance to unify vs Pedroza. Chavez was still young at 130 but that would have been a super fight in the mid 80s. Camacho was also coming at 130lbs. Whitaker was an Olympian turning pro in 1984. Jeff Fenech and Barry McGuigan were also on the horizon. My goodness it’s unreal to think about.
Ike Ibeabuchi was a little younger than Holyfield, Tyson and Lewis. He was more advanced than the Klitschko brothers when he went to jail. Giving him the eye ball test, I think he could have been an ATG heavyweight.
Tony Ayala was a beast. I don’t think he would have been a dominant champion but he could’ve won a belt and made huge money.
Dmitri Pirog was good. He was tall, strong, and smooth. That win over Danny Jacobs was real. He would’ve been a real threat to GGG and Sergio Martinez.
My man Gerald McClellan. If McClellan didn’t get injured, an injury in which I believe he carried before the Nigel Benn fight. I believe he would have beaten Benn and been involved with super fights vs Bhop, RJ and bad ass James Toney. I don’t know if he would’ve won them all but I think he would’ve went 0-3 either.
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