The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling topics such as Gervonta Davis vs. Rolando Romero, Shakur Stevenson and the big win over Jamel Herring and potential opponents he could face, the recent loss by Julian Williams, and more.
God bless you and your family during these COVID related times! Thank you for your phenomenal insights and boxing knowledge, I look forward on Saturdays to reading the “mailbag.”
Here is my question/issue with young black boxers and some old ones (namely Mike Tyson), why do they so freely throw around the “N” word or any of its derivatives terms? I’m a 65 year old black man and I don’t get it! I watched the Tank Davis and Rollie Romero press conference and the derivative was thrown around, Jermell Charlo throws it around as does Mike Tyson. Why do they do that in public? That slur is the only slur that has been popularized to the degree that other races feel at liberty to hurl it about. By the way your thoughts on the Davis vs. Romero fight. Also, your perspective on “N” word being so freely thrown around.
Bread’s Response: Man this is a tough question but if I have integrity I have to answer it. I personally have used the N word in my life. My parents were born in the 50’s and my grand parents were born in the 30s. The word was used freely around those times so I came up in a household using the N word not as an insult but as an adjective or term of brotherhood. However, We were wrong.
I am personally trying to break the cycle. My kids don’t use it and I don’t use it around them. I would discipline them if they did. It’s a bad habit that I had developed using it myself and I try not to use it but sometimes I slip up in private among my black peers or family members. I never use the word around non black people. I have enough discipline not to do that. I don’t want to have conversations about the difference in the N word ending in “er” and the N word ending in “a”. I also don’t want people who aren’t black thinking it’s ok to use to around me. So I don’t use it around them.
I cringe when black people use it around non black people in public forums. I won’t criticize the fighters you named because I don’t know what context it was used in. But I do wish that black people stopped using that word. Especially in front of non black people. It’s an ugly word and it causes more harm than good. People have lost their lives for variations of that word. And non black people are losing their jobs and lively hoods for using the word in an insulting way. So WE should just do away with the word all together. I try my best to NOT use it and so far I have not got it out of my vocabulary 100% but I am making strides. We all have to maintain and monitor our own moral compass. Let’s start now. It’s not a good look for black athletes to use it on their social media etc. Again it can cause more harm than good.
I like the Davis vs Romero fight. I favor Davis because I just think he may be the best mix of power and talent in boxing. But Romero is live. He’s live because he doesn’t know how to lose. He’s crazy. He’s unorthodox. He’s faster than he looks. He’s powerful. But I believe Tank has better balance and pedigree. Tank’s feet are under him when he’s firing. And Rollie’s knees are knocked and his feet are spread far apart. See Roy Jones vs Merqui Sosa. In shootouts of big punchers, the puncher that has the better pedigree usually wins. McClellan vs Jackson. McClellan won. Hagler vs Mugabi. Hagler won. Rosario vs Bramble. Rosario won. GGG vs Lemiex and Stevenson. GGG won. I think Rollie is very live and I don’t count him out. But I can’t pick against Tank at this point. I was beyond impressed with him vs Mario Barrios. I know how well prepared Barrios was for that fight. And Tank adjusted and overcame. He landed a great right hook to start the trouble. And a great left hand underneath to finish the fight.
Tank has balance and a 2 fisted attack to go along with a vicious killer instinct. Tank also can press the action and really bring the noise. Some talented fighters can box. But Tank can fight and box. Because of the high level of bad blood I don’t rule out a DQ or some type of weird ending. Pride may not let either just take an L. But my logic tells me we can see sort of a mix of Devon Alexander vs Marcos Maidana with Tank being Alexander. And maybe some Hagler vs Mugabi. I think Rolly will have some moments. He may even wobble Tank with shots high on the head. Tank likes to block punches. But overall, unless Rolly has a titanic chin, I just don’t know if anyone that size can confront Tank in a shootout and not get ko'd. So let’s say Tank in a FOY type of shootout by ko between 5th-7th.
Hey Bread,
I was taking a look at your p4p list in your latest mailbag. I have nine of those fighters in my own top 10. I love that you include Choc instead of Estrada. I would love to see The Ring give Choc credit for that fight too (we all know he won 7 rounds clean against El Gallo). I don't include Fury because I think his biggest asset is his size, and I feel that negates the spirit of 'pound for pound'. In his place I have Shakur Stevenson. After seeing the Stevenson-Herring fight, is Shakur now in your top 10?
Best, Liam
Bread’s Response: We have a 90% matching rate than that’s good on a subjective list. However I don’t agree about Tyson Fury. Heavyweights should not get penalized because they are heavyweights. P4P is relative to what weight you fight at. So Fury would be a 6’4 welterweight, with high IQ, a resourceful chin, excellent jab and a great mind. He would still be a great fighter. It’s not like he’s fighting light heavyweights weighing 270lbs. He’s fighting men in his division. There is more to Fury than his size. Most fighters would have poor stamina if they were 270lbs. He does not. And I know 1st hand, building stamina on a large man is harder. You have to be open minded and give Tyson his props. He’s a deep water shark and consistently finishes fights stronger than his smaller opponents. He’s a great fighter.
Hope all is well, I have a question and then some mythical match ups I’d like your input on. The question is how do you, as a fan, determine who you root for? Does ethnicity influence you? Or style? If you like two guys and they’re going at it - how do you determine who you root for? Mythical match ups: Juan Manuel Marquez vs. Vasyli Lomanchenko, Andre Ward vs Saul Alvarez @ 168 lbs
Thanks,
Christian Holguin, Phoenix AZ
Bread’s Response: If I bet on a fighter, I root for him to hit my bet. If I like or know a fighter I root for him. If I’m intrigued by a fighter I root for him. I don’t have specific rhymes or reasons on who I bet for. I go on a fight by fight basis. I also quietly root against fighters who I know are BSers. Who I know are privileged and don’t have to take certain fights. Who I know things about but I don’t talk about them publicly. Basically it comes down to who I want to win that night. And the reasons fall into it….
I know you won’t say it but I will for you. Jrock faded and didn’t look his best, but he didn’t lose that fight. The worst possible scorecard for him would have been a draw. The announcers felt the same way. What’s troubling is the David Sutherland scorecard. Sutherland had Mario Barrios losing to Gervonta Davis 97-91 and he had Tony Harrison losing to Jermell Charlo 96-93. Both of those fights ended in a ko, so the scorecards weren’t examined forensically. There is no way Davis was up 6 points before the ko. Davis’s team thought he was losing and Floyd Mayweather went to his corner to edge him on. The unofficial scorecards had it closer. But no one looked close because Davis won by ko.
I thought Harrison was on his way to a repeat victory over Charlo. How he was down 3 points already going into the 11th round is just not in consensus with what I was watching. Again the controversy was avoided because of the ko. Jrock was winning the early rounds clean in my opinion because of sharp right hand. But according to Sutherland’s 97-93 scorecard, Jrock was not getting full credit early. The optics of that fight saw Jrock winning the earlier rounds with Hernandez coming on later. But with 7 rounds to 3 in Hernandez’s favor I wonder how Sutherland gave so many of the early rounds to Hernandez? As a trainer I know you can’t complain too much but that was an unjust scorecard. Williams has a high profile name but he’s not a megastar. So there won’t be outrage. I saw your disappointment. Just wanted to bring some light to it. Hopefully you guys can get back on track.
Bread’s Response: I would like to say thank you. I feel exactly how you feel. When I heard 97-93 as the last scorecard read, I thought we had it because I knew it was no way Julian only won 3 rounds. I was in shock. But I quickly snapped out of it and put my trainer’s hat on and owned up to the fact that his body language was poor and he didn’t finish strong. But I didn’t like that scorecard. It still doesn’t feel right. I also researched and saw the judge’s scorecard in the Davis vs Barrios fight and Charlo vs Harrison rematch. I just don’t know what to say but I'm not going to criticize him. His score is his score. It’s disturbing and disappointing but it’s boxing. You take your losses, like you take your wins and try to perform in a way where you make the judges job easier. You don’t want to cry the blues when you lose, just grin when you win. Thanks again.
Bread,
Andre Ward said during the 3rd round of Stevenson/Herring that this is looking like Mayweather/Gatti but to me this was Mayweather/Hernandez 2.0. Only difference was that Mayweather was fighting for his first title at that time but and Hernandez was seen as a better fighter than Herring. Just a tremendous performance by Stevenson and I know you have been high on him for a while. It seems like it finally clicked for him and he realized you don't have to move around for every single round in every single fight. He stood his ground and was right there to counter anytime Herring missed and he was not afraid to let some combinations go. The young talent in America right now is unbelievable. The future is VERY bright! Percentage game breakdown featuring Stevenson: vs Davis at 135, vs Lomachenko at either 130 or 135, vs Colbert, vs Valdez.
For my money, Stevenson will end up being the second best fighter from the 25 and under club behind only Ennis. Agreed?
Take care.
Bread’s Response: I agree the Stevenson vs Herring fight was reminiscent of Mayweather vs Hernandez. Very, very similar. Mayweather beat Gatti up brutally. That was worse. Ultra talented, quick and fast fighters often times over move. Stevenson felt no need to move too much away from Herring because it actually minimizes opportunities to counter and punish. When I see one of these gifted fighters do that, I assume something. The opposing fighter’s punches are bothering them. In this case Herring was not the puncher or the stronger fighter. Look at how Stevenson’s body filled out compared to Herring’s. So Herring was giving up over a decade in age, talent, speed, quickness, strength, power and pedigree. You talk about the deck stacked. I’m impressed he had the moments he had. Him and his team prepared well.
I don’t want to say who’s going to be the best out of the young talent. Attrition clears up all of our speculation.I’m not predicting who I think will win these match ups. But % breakdowns are the likelihood of who will win.
Stevenson vs Davis is 50/50
Stevenson vs Loma is 51/49
Stevenson vs Colbert is 60/40
Stevenson vs Valdez 60/40
Hi Breadman,
How are you doing? So I’ve been going through Julio Ceasar Chavez’s fights and just saw the Meldrick Taylor one. Great fight but I think the bad call at the end takes away from one of the several highlights of that night, JCC’s heart. Chavez knew he’d been beaten for 9 straight rounds and somehow there was no doubt on his face. Reminds me of what you say about Joshua allowing himself get defeated too easily. Chavez knew he could knock Taylor out and went for it. What’s your top ten ATG fighters with regards to heart?
Also, I’ve long had this idea of sending a mail for a list of unlikeliest fighters with great boxing skills. Here’s mine. Straight right: Brian Castano/Chocalotito, Left hook: Meldrick Taylor/Brandon Glanton, Footwork: Jermell Charlo, Engine: Lomachenko, Jab: Haney, Inside punching: Stephen Fulton, Speed: Meldrick Taylor, Judge of distance: Ricardo Lopez. Do you have one too
Sorry for the long mail. Have a great week.
Bread’s Response: Chavez showed tremendous everything that night. People often confuse the fact that because I think Taylor was jerked around, that I’m not a Chavez fan. Chavez is a rare fighter who was top 10 in 2 decades. Chavez was one of the best 10 fighters of the 80s and of the 90s. I study Chavez as much as I study Duran. And I tell people the night he beat Rosario he was as good as Duran. What people don’t know either is that Chavez lost a step by 91-92ish. He reigned on but he wasn’t the same. He lost a step and his body didn’t hold the same muscle connotation. Chavez’s guts in the Taylor fight was monumental. But it’s hard to say who’s top 10 ever as far as heart. Heart is determined in so many ways. Who’s willing to fight killers. Who doesn’t discourage. Who fights until the death…Roberto Duran and Chavez are similar. Both have heart. Both are killers. Both will fight anyone. But both have quit in fights. They didn’t quit because of lack of heart. They quit because they got discouraged. So it’s a slippery slope. I will try but this is a tough list. There are too many fighters in history who overcame sick odds to narrow it down to 10. There are also some heart fighters who didn’t have to show it often because they were so talented. So I will name my 10 favorite heart fighters.
1. Ali. Ali gave everybody rematches except Foreman. He fought the best fighters of 2 eras. He often fought fighters in their hometowns. And he loved to fight punchers, while he was considered a non puncher. No fighter can have more heart than Ali. Maybe equal but it’s hard to have MORE heart than a man like Ali. He’s just different.
2. Diego Corrales- Corrales had zero give in trying to win. He was a monster in that way.
3. Arturo Gatti- Well he was involved in 5 of the top 10 fighters I’ve ever seen. That says enough.
4. Evander Holyfield- ran towards Bowe, Lewis and Tyson as the underdog!
5. Juan Manuel Marquez- Marquez is considered a technical boxer but he’s one of the more gutsy fighters I have ever witnessed.
6. James Toney- very few fighters will fight ANYBODY. Toney will fight anybody. I never got the sense Toney ducked work.
7. Bobby Chacon- You guys would have had to see him to understand why he’s on the list.
8. Felix Trinidad- moved up from 147 and within 2 years he was asking for a Roy Jones fight at 168. He was different.
9. Matthew Saad Muhammad- He deserves to be higher on my list. I admit I’m doing this off the top of my head on fighters I have seen. I haven’t watched Saad in while. But he was a mixture of Holyfield and Gatti.
10. Joe Frazier!
Often times fighters get compliments and known for things and WE overlook their best qualities. You have a good list. I will give a list of fighter's qualities that get over looked but are great in their own rights Old?Current
Jab: Ken Norton/Jaron Ennis
Rear Hand: Mikkel Kessler/Chocolatito
Hook: Manny Pacquiao/Jermell Charlo
Body Punching: Ray Leonard/Artur Beterbiev
Engine:Bernard Hopkins/Juan Estrada
Speed: Jeff Fenech/Brian Castano
Distance: Carl Froch/Teofimo Lopez
Inside Punching: Archie Moore/Josh Taylor
Chin: David Tua/ Jermall Charlo
Hi Bread, enjoy your mailbag immensely.
My question/statement is: Are we wading into dangerous precedential waters with the pre-mature stoppage of Herring v Stevenson? Why aren't or rather shouldn't referees be giving more standing 8 counts, warning fighters between rounds that they need to improve their performance: in short, GIVE THE FIGHTER A CHANCE - A WARNING.
What's worse is that Herring still had a puncher's chance, was still protecting himself, throwing back, he was just simply losing on points.
If we have referees beginning to stop fights simply because a fighter is behind on the cards, and is getting beaten but still able to fight (especially being the defending champion he's supposed to be given extra leeway to attempt a late-round comeback or stoppage. As long as he has a chance, and is coherent, not in danger of severe injury, then he ought to be allowed to continue!
My point is - this is going to potentially set a dangerous precedent and disadvantage fighters whose game plan might be to come on in the latter half of the fight.
What if a fighter wants to play rope a dope, or possum, setting traps? these strategies now put a fighter in danger of being declared a TKO loser simply because of a pitter-patter flurry made famous by Joe 'I don't travel' Calzaghe.
Also, do you feel/believe that many of the best match-ups @ 175 are long overdue especially in the case of Bivol (and others), who for over 5 years has defended his WBA belt whilst reciting the typical hollow script about wanting to unify and clean out the division? There seems to be a real depth of talent, yet the fights are far too few and far between IMO. Your thoughts here are appreciated also.
What are your thoughts? Cheers from down under.
Kiowa. Sydney.
Bread’s Response: I personally like brutal kos. I like 10 counts. I like conclusive endings. But I’m not outraged at the stoppage in the Stevenson vs Herring fight. Herring’c cut was leaking bad, the blood was running in his eyes. Moments before he had just looked at the referee. His body language was flowy. And Stevenson was starting sit down on his right hook. It may have been a tad early but it wasn’t outrageous in my opinion. Herring’s corner was not upset at all. Look at them after the fight. Herring really wasn’t either. I think you’re understating the circumstances. It was more than Herring being down on points. He was starting to get beat up. I would not have had an issue if the referee waited a little longer, but it again it wasn’t a terrible stoppage.
There should never be a standing 8 count in professional boxing. It takes away the advantage the fighter had who hurt his opponent. The fighter in trouble has to be able to fight his way out of trouble and if he can’t then he gets stopped. There is already too many things a fighter gets to do when he’s knocked down. I’ve seen fights where referees seem to conduct field sobriety test on fallen fighters. “Walk forward, walk back.” Etc, ect. It takes too much time and it takes away the advantage he earned.
For example, I don’t understand what happened with Dmitry Bivol. He was really hot and looked at as a fighter approaching P4P status. I have no idea what happened with his momentum. No one at 175lbs has seemed to keep their momentum. Beterbiev was on P4P list following his unification win but he became inactive also. I’m actually looking forward to Beterbiev vs Browne next month. That fight has huge ramifications.
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