By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
The Daily Bread Mailbag returns, with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards answering questions on Tyson Fury's big victory over Wladimir klitschko, Canelo Alvarez's win over Miguel Cotto, James DeGale's win over Lucian Bute, and more.
What's really good bread
First of all im a huge fan of u and the mailbag one thing I would like to add to some comments on the last mailbag is that many font get caught up with who is the Aside and the Bside or who makes the most money etc. But really do we care whenwe ain't gonna see any of it us fan should focus on great fights regardless of network or promotions. US fans get to involved on things that really shouldn't matter to us I just want to see the best possible fights take care brother much love
El cholo from arlington tx
Bread’s Response: When a fan starts telling me who draws the most ppv numbers etc etc. I already know they are a fan of a particular fighter and they aren’t just boxing fans. Because a boxing fan wants to see good fights. They don’t care about the business stuff. Let the businessmen handle that! Thanks my man! You hit the nail on the head.
Great work again Breadman.
Thanks for the constant education, had only watched the two Terry Norris fights vs Simon Brown the other day, so it was perfect when you said that Buddy McGirt vs Simon Brown fight was a masterpiece. Mike Tyson does a very good job on commentary for the fight, wheeling off dates like he had a smart phone in front of him. He was giving great advise for Brown to use, Buddy use his lack of height so well, making Brown give up his length, then walking into the eye of the tornado with left hooks. The different looks he was giving Brown then punching or flurrying. It was a Schooling/Educated beating
What you said about Canelo being very similar to Danny Garcia I agree but I do feel he is more like Marquez, with his counter punching, combos, likes a uppercut and is flat/slow footed.
What do you make of Canelo power?
I feel like Chavez jr weighing 2/3 weight divisions heavier then his opponent its more the weight of the shots. He hit Cotto with sum real hard shots that I expected to see Cotto dropped, the only thing he didn't hit Angulo with was a truck.
How would you describe different types of punching power?
Like Foreman would club you to death.
Julian Jackson/G Man would try to put there hand through your face.
Hearns was sharp like a French swordsmen you don't even know you been hit till you see the blood.
When you talked about the different styles races. Always new about Mexicans vs Black fighters and Mexicans vs Ricans but I had never took notice of Eastern Europeans having the edge over black fighters, you only touch the sides on it with Lomochenko, Kovalev and Tszyu. Can you give a few more examples and what it is about there style that causes such a problem?
100kg from London
Bread’s Response: If anybody wants to see a technical boxing lesson watch Buddy McGirt vs Simon Brown. Some guys use tricks, speed and smoke and mirrors. But Buddy used solid technical skills and timing to tear Brown apart who is one of the better welterweights of the last 25 years. Great performance.
Canelo has a little Marquez to his game with his combination punching but Marquez keeps his hands higher. He doesn’t lead as much as Canelo and he fights on the balls of his feet more. Canelo is lazier than Marquez.
You know I think Canelo has a decent punch but not as a big a punch as his record indicates. I also think he punches better to the body than he does the head.
I think you did a great job in describing the different type of power. Fighters generate punching power from different places. Foreman is a clubber. He can hit you anywhere and hurt you. Hearns is a swordsman. He would damage his hands if he tried to club like Foreman. Gerald McClellan was more of a violent overwhelmer who savagely punched through you. And Julian Jackson and Naseem Hamed are the one punch boom guys. They can be really patient because they know they’re concussive. Punching power is a fascinating thing I honestly don’t have enough room to describe the type of punchers there are and what classifications I put everyone in.
I think the Eastern Euro fighters can break the urban/Black rhythm better because they box their way in, where as the Mexican fighters are more flatfooted and plodding. I also believe the Eastern Euro have a superior amateur program and a built in strength program. All of them are really physically strong.
They have a probing fencing movement with their lead hand and they punch straight from the shoulders, no loading up. Watch GGG as an amateur, he looked much more like Kostya Tszyu than he does today. There is a kid named Olesandr Usyk that I am really big on. He has that prototypical probing style. He’s 8-0 and not only do I think he’s the best cruiserweight in the world already but I think he’s a top 15 heavyweight at this moment.
Pound 4 pound rankings
I want an objective thought on my pound 5 pound list. The easy route is to say that the top pound 4 pound slot is vacant. However, the pound 4 pound position is a hypothetical ranking. There are no set values to objectively rank fighters without some bias, unless a fighter has dominated boxing for a number of years. Examples, Chavez, Jones, and Mayweather in the most recent years. I suggest that the top Pound 4 Pound fighter is a fighter who if I were to match against other fighters, I am suggesting would win. If weight is not a factor and all else equal. Here is my top 10 pound 4 pound.
1. Roman Gonzalez
2. Andre Ward
3. Wladamir Klitshcko
4. Sergey Kovalev
5. Terrance Crawford
8. Mikey Garcia (still thinks he beats everyone at 130-135) including Lomanchenko if he moves up
9. Kell Brook
10. Rigondeaux (reluctant but still Rigo can turn it on when he wants)
What are your thoughts and what is your list? I know people will ask why GGG is not in the top 5. However, I have a hard time putting GGG in the top 5 and thats due to his level of opposition. The knock outs will decrease as he steps up. Im not a fan of Crawford's level of opposition either but I rank him above GGG and slightly below Kovelev. Until Ward gets beat or looks beatable he is number 2 only due to his inactivity. Gonzalez for his level of competition, style and KO ratio, he is tuff for anyone and has been top5 on my list for the past couple years. Brook is the best welter weight and Canelo is the best super welter weight. Honorable mentions (swift garica, Tim Bradley, Adonis stevenson)
Bread’s Response: P4P list are subjective. There is nothing wrong with your list. Most times no two list are the same. I would change your order a little bit…The thing that stands out to me the most is Mikey Garcia being on there. Garcia is a supreme talent. But there is no way I would put him on a p4p list with him being as inactive has he was. Garcia would have had to accomplish a lot more prior to being inactive. Other than that your list is solid.
Dude offcourse people are going to take it offensive and talk sh*t... Your basically saying that black fighters are better then Mexicans.... I know where your coming from because I been watching boxing for years and seen so many different styles, I know that black fighters like to feast on weak Mexicans to sharpen up they're skills and when they think they're ready they step it up allot of them get broken down it's only the boring over defensive fighters that beat the good Mexicans fighters not all black fighters it takes a special kind of brotha..... And if you wanted to keep it real and not get people pissed you could of atleast trow out the fact that for the most part when a good black fighter beats a good mexican fighter, the black fighter is most likely on his bike making a boring fight out of it trying to avoid contact and the calling it "Boxing", it go's both ways a mexican fighter can also be a brothas worst nightmare.... I have seen it plenty of times and you have to!!!! Some Mexicans have trouble with the boring over defensive style...and some black fighters can't handle a good mexican fighter that keeps coming at them.
-San D13go Villain
Bread’s Response: You threw the words ALL and BORING in there to make your statement more valid. The only problem is I never said all or boring. Sure there have been some great Mexican fighters who have beaten some great black fighters. But my point was overall they have trouble with the style. Just like the fighters from PR and Eastern Euro have a really hard time dealing with the Mexican style. You seem offended and you shouldn’t be. I never said black fighters are better!
What I noticed about your comments is you weren’t specific. You didn’t name one case to prove your point. And you never attacked one of cases to discredit mines. I think I know why. You’re a smart man. And if you named my cases specifically, then people could simply youtube the fights.
Azumah Nelson didn’t run from Salvador Sanchez he went to him like a savage. Meldrick Taylor didn’t run from Julio Cesar Chavez. He fought him in a tight circle and used his speed. Rocky Lockridge and Frankie Randall didn’t run from Chavez either. Those fights weren’t boring.
Junior Jones attacked Marco Antonio Barrera. In the 2nd fight Barerra turned into the boxer. Shane Mosley attacked Antonio Margarito. Do I need to go on? I’m sure you have seen these fights. Of course it doesn’t mean that every black fighter can beat every Mexican fighter. That’s absurd to think that. But my point still stands. In the rock, paper, scissors of match ups. The Urban/black style gives the Mexican style fits. So your point of the black fighter having to fight a boring defensive style to beat a Mexican fighter is NOT true.
Paul Williams threw a sh*t load of punches to defeat a prime Antonio Margarito. Williams was actually criticized for “fighting” too much and not using his reach. As I type more cases pop into my head..
What's up Breadman! I have a question about a potential matchup but before I go into that, I want to thank you for that breakdown on the styles and matchups between Mexican style/urban style/euro style. Man, you went deep and was 100% accurate on all those points. After Canelo beat Cotto, I was like if he fights GGG he gonna probably lose because of the strength and his jab but I'm saying Canelo now because of the points you made and me looking at it in that perspective. The matchup I wanted to ask you about was a Cotto vs Bradley. I'm big Bradley fan and I hope he gets the fight and I think its a good matchup. I don't see where else Cotto goes from here. I heard Roc Nation and Al Haymon don't do business and I think Bradley is the only big name fighter that would fight him at 154 that's available. If that fight is made, who do you think wins? I've always thought Bradley would be bad for Cotto. Cotto will be 36 by then and he looks slow throwing punches to me. Bradley too fast and too versatile and I think Atlas has him looking a lot better.
Michael from Texas
Bread’s Response: Well before you get too ahead of yourself. I don’t believe Canelo will beat GGG. My point was he’s not upside down. Canelo is almost impossible to beat by decision. He’s hard to stop. And he punches in a judge friendly style. GGG is a bad, bad man. But he can be hit. They don’t have to treat him like he’s a monster. I think Canelo can at least last the distance and win 4 or 5 rounds.
Man I think Bradley vs Cotto is a great fight. Very makeable… I don’t have a winner right now. The one thing I know about Cotto is he’s a mood fighter. When he loses he gets in a sulking mood and he struggles for a while. He would have to snap out of that quick if he were to beat Bradley who is on a high right now.
What's up Breadman! Below are a few observations I made after watching the fights from this past weekend. Would love to know what you thought as well:
Fury/Klitscho: First, big-time congrats to Fury for becoming the champ. It's not an easy thing to do and he went out and backed up what he said he would do and that was to defeat Klitschko. I watched the entire fight and I'm not sure I agree with the assessment of the fight being about boxing...the sweet science, feints, angles, movement etc.. I probably should be more specific as to say, I was disappointed in his tactic as a heavyweight. I get the ultimate objective is to win but I expect more action when heavyweights tangle. I don't recall a single punch from either fighter of any significance. Good riddance to Klitschko as I've never seen a heavyweight more afraid of contact than him. I'm not the one to throw out the boring label, but I expect more from heavyweights. Again, congrats to Fury for winning but I would've loved to see more action.
DeGeale/Bute: I dig Degeale's confidence and Bute surprised me. I thought Bute was done but he went head up with a younger, fresher opponent. Also, I love Bute's body work especially the uppercut to the chest. He throws it with conviction and he hurt DeGeale with that punch. Who would you like to see DeGeale fight next? Froch said he'd smash DeGeale. Tough talk from the always talkative Froch or legit?
Imam/Granados: Decided to watch Imam as I'd only seen him fight like once before. The Granados kid really took the fight to Imam and beat Imam up. My question to you is the advice his trainer gave Imam late in the fight. Imam's trainer told him to get his jab working. Imam responded by saying his jab wasn't working and asked his coach what should he do. The trainer responded by telling him to make it (the jab) work. Do you believe this was good advice? To me (untrained eye) Imam looked lost, desperate and looked to his corner to provide an alternate strategy. Also, the commentators warned this could be a really tough scrap for Imam. Several reporters also said the same. Do you feel the Imam team took Granados for granted? They sure picked a tough, scrappy opponent for a "tune-up" fight. I always enjoy reading your mailbag.
Bread’s Response: The Degale vs Bute fight was much better than I anticipated. Bute really surprised me. I honestly thought he was done after what Froch did to him. He performed really well. But I think people confuse “doing better than expected”, with actually winning. I thought Degale won the fight. I was even more impressed by Degale because he could have easily underestimated Bute and lost this fight. I have seen that happen hundreds of times. When the masses assume the favorite will smash his opponent then the opponent fights over his head and then the fighter can’t match the level. Degale rose to where he needed to go. I really like Degale.
Degale claims he wants Badou Jack in a unification and I’m all for it. Nothing like two guys in their primes wanting to unify. I think it will be a great fight.
People are all coming down in Amir Imam. But the kid is a real fighter. He knows he’s still improving and he didn’t want to “sit” on a title shot and get rusty. To rest too much is to rust too much.
However, judging from what I saw in the fight. I think Imam underestimated Granados a little bit. The same thing could have happened to Degale but he was better prepared. Imam didn’t realize that Granados was a dam demon that night. That’s why it’s so important to take every opponent super serious, Literally as if your life is on the line.
I also think technically Imam goes to his shoulder roll defense too much. He’s a tall lanky kid. He doesn’t need to do that so often. He lets guys get too close to him and they loop right hands on his ear. The same thing happened to Michael Seals the kid who fought Edwin Rodriguez last week. Him and Imam both kept going to the ropes trying to shoulder roll right hands. That really restricts your movement. James Toney and Floyd Mayweather are super special. They have a built in sense of timing that allows them to makes you miss by inches. Imam and Seals haven’t perfected it yet.
I think Imam took a pretty bad beating and I hope he can come back. But 30 years ago guys took that same beating 3 or 4 times before they ever won titles. Imam needs to work on his leg strength, put that fight in his rear view mirror, take a comeback fight then get Granados back in the ring. That’s exactly what I expect him to do.
First Off I want to give 100% props to Tyson Fury. He showed what self belief can do. Wlad punches harder, is faster, more experienced and is a better athlete. But Fury’s self belief outweighed all of that.
Before I go in deeper I want to say I really respect Wladimir Klitschko. He’s a 1st ballot HOF. He has shown great longevity, consistency and resilience. But I have always believed that Wlad’s greatness lied more in his long reign than the actual eyeball test. I hear experts say things like Wlad could beat any heavyweight who ever lived and I just don’t believe that. There are at least 25-30 heavyweights that Wlad couldn’t beat and I have always maintained that.
The excuse that he got old overnight doesn’t sit well with me. I have seen older fighters who were still champions show decline. Bernard Hopkins doesn’t look the same as he did 10 years. Manny Pacquiao doesn’t look the same as he did 10 years ago. Wlad was not showing any signs of physical deterioration. No one was saying that when he was lighting Kubret Pulev up a couple fights ago. Before the Pulev fight he was looking tepid against Alexander Povetkin. I can go on and on throughout his career where his performances go hot and cold according to the resistance his opponent’s put out.
The truth is Wladimir Klitschko could never fight on the inside. He was always more inclined to grab for dear life when an opponent got close to him. The truth is his stamina has always been an issue. But recently his opponents couldn’t press him. The truth is he’s always been a guy who didn’t trust his chin. He was turning his back 10 years ago when Samuel Peter and Lamon Brewster were chasing him around the ring.
Wlad is an enigma because he seeks out big challenges and he has faced the best available contender for over a decade. But at the same time he fights a very scary fight. He often overthinks and that’s not good for a fighter. A fighter can be too intelligent for his own good and I think Wlad fits into that category.
The reason Wlad couldn’t pull the trigger was because Fury was showing a great feint. A nervous fighter who doesn’t like to be hit will go for every feint. Fury and his team had a great gameplan. Those feints threw Wlad off all night and kept his punch output low. Fury deserves credit instead of people assuming Wlad got old overnight. I didn’t see a declining fighter. I saw the same fighter. A great but heavily flawed champion.
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