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Daily Bread Mailbag: Golovkin-Charlo, Wilder-Joshua, Canelo

By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards

The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards discussing various topics such as the Gennady Golovkin vs. Canelo Alvarez discussions, Deontay Wilder vs. Anthony Joshua negotiations, Golovkin vs. Jermall Charlo, Artur Beterbiev vs. Dmitry Bivol, and more.

In your opinion who poses the biggest threat to an aging GGG? Who gives him the most problems match-up wise in your opinion?

Is it BJS with his hard to figure out constant stick and move style?

Is it Danny Jacobs and his competitive fire?

Is it Charlo with his pressure style and vicious power?

Is it possibly Andrade? (I think he would get crushed but ill throw him in)

Bread’s Response: Man this is a really tough question…..

Stick and movers are historically very hard to deal with in their prime years. An elite stick and mover is a freaking nightmare. Muhammad Ali, Hector Camacho, Sambu Kalambay, Larry Holmes, Michael Nunn…..Seriously during a stick and movers peak, you rarely find losses. The thing about Saunders is he’s so hot and cold. I’ve seen him really stink the joint out not too long ago. But he was platinum vs David Lemuiex. I think Saunders would give GGG problems but consistency is important to me. So I would like to see him be lights out more than once before I say he would give GGG the most problems. Stylistically Saunders has the toughest style to figure out but…. 60/40 GGG’s favor

Danny Jacobs has been in there with GGG. He’s felt the power. Dealing with a power puncher is very complex. The opponent almost gets moral victory by not getting stopped. They need to “feel” the myth of the power. I think because of that Jacobs would be very live in a rematch because he’s been in the fire. Very live. 50/50

Charlo is an interesting fight. Charlo and GGG are very similar. Charlo is a little taller and younger but they have lots of similarities. Charlo may be the one guy on your list who can back GGG up. Stylistically Charlo is not hard to figure out, but he is hard to beat because of his punching power, chin and physicality. This would be the best fight out of the bunch you named. The problem for Charlo is he gets hit so easy. He comes to kill and fighters who come to kill give up something defensively. GGG is an all time puncher and you don’t want him punching you clean in the face. This is a great fight. Charlo is the one guy who may be able to out physical GGG. But I have to see it in the ring. 50/50

Andrade is a terrific talent but he doesn’t fight. Once he reached the top level he became inactive and he didn’t face the competition necessary to elevate his game in his prime years. So it’s hard to say what Andrade will do with GGG. I love his talent and skill but it’s really hard to be inactive for so long and not face a certain level of competition and then face a legitimate great fighter who is a ruthless puncher. So out of the 4, Andrade is unknown for me. But I have to favor GGG.

What do you think are the three best divisions in boxing?

Bread’s Responses: The best questions are straight and to the point.

In order I say bantamweight is #1. Their World Series tournament is just unreal. Those 4 fighters could all be top 50 in the world. Inoue, Tete, Rodriguez and Burnett. What a quartet!

#2 I say Junior Middleweight. All of the champions are undefeated and below 30 years old. Hurd, Munguia and Charlo. Then you have strong contenders in Brian Castano, Kell Brook, Julian Williams, Michel Soro and Erislandy Lara.

#3 Lightheavyweight. Bivol, Beterbiev, Stevenson and Kovalev are the freaking champions. That’s serious quartet also. Then you have serious challengers in Browne, The Nail, Jack and Yarde.

1 source of boxing knowledge,

How are things my man? and hope to see JRock ride the wave of that big win against Gallimore with a title shot or close to one very soon. Tremeneous amount of respect and appreciation for you doing this mailbag..level of insight is borderline absurd and we get it regularly, not even ppv!!

Wanted to pick your brains on a potential fall canelo v ggg rematch. I didnt score the fight live but once it was over my feeling was that ggg probably won 7 rounds. After scoring it though, twice, i get to 6-6 in both cases. Quite a few people in boxing (who mostly thought ggg won the first time) seem to pick Canelo in the rematch due to his youth and you know the saying that a boxer with perhaps few more blades on his swiss army knife usually does better in a rematch versus the puncher (although ggg clearly is an elite boxer too). I actually think Canelo fought extremely well and put an impressive performance at display. Early when not fatigue, he was slick, sharp and was outboxing ggg like a sweet scientist. As the fight progressed and ggg become more aggressive he started getting tired though. Last rounds he came back but i give his heart credit to that more than anything else. In a rematch however i cant help to think ggg is to be favoured. Not sure what canelo can do significantly better. Sure be more aggressive and not only try to win 30 seconds of the fight (esp when judges not unlikely will have the first bout in back of their heads).. throw more combinations. But that is not risk free! The fatigue issue i think is a big big factor vs a constant pressure fighter like ggg (or errol spence) ..and it wont go away in a rematch whatever he does - in fact if ggg starts faster than last time which i think he might, canelo's fatigue may hit him even earlier. Also ggg took a perfect clean punch from canelo's right hand in second half of the bout.  Thait was clean clean and beautiful!! It has ko's many canelo opponents previously as you know and he barely flinched!! If ggg wasnt sure before the first fight of the power, now he must know it's not lemeiux/jacobs...Would love to hear your thought on this. Not to mention the fact that ggg may have some goodwill will the judges given the controversy of last time.

For the sake of not having too many moving variables, lets assume the potential slight decline in ggg (compared to first fight) due to 1yr later is nettet off by the fact that he has shook off the "rust" with a good camp and great performance earlier this month (albeit vs martirosyan).

Also quickly. Beterbiev is a scary dude. I mean this is the 3rd time or so he (either as no1 challenger in eliminator or as champ) has to go down more than to the 10th contender on the list to find someone who is willing to get annihilated by him and his power. I actually think P4P he is top 3 punchers alongside gassiev and wilder. I usually rate power P4P in what effect their solid landed punches has had on their opponents and how they get ko'd (keeping in mind quality of opponents). He has slow hands and feet which i think is his achilles heel. Otherwise solid fundamentals, great chin and very good to the body (happy my boy SOG never fought this guy. not saying would bet against Andre to be clear)..how do you think hed' fare against bivol if they fought next? would bivol's better faster footwork and overall speed be the determining factor or would beterbiev at some point be too much?

all the best,
ash the scientist

Bread’s Response: You know I go back and forth about this. I don’t rescore fights because I’m human and once you know a narrative you lose objectivity. Watching the fight as it happened I thought GGG won a close fight. But I thought Canelo actually fought a better fight. He showed some serious skill in rolling GGG’s shots off the ropes and counterpunching GGG with some serious heat. GGG just has a better jab and he fights harder minute for minute and round for round so mathematically it looked to me he won more rounds.

After considering many things I think GGG would be a slight betting favorite over Canelo in the rematch but it doesn’t mean I would pick him. There are lots of things to consider. I think GGG’s last ko will be great for him. I don’t think you guys realize how important it is for a hunter like GGG to kill a prey. They need that for their mental approach. It may have brought some savage back. I keep hearing GGG carried this guy or carried that guy. But in his last fight he just hunted. No pondering. As talented as Canelo is we have to wonder how he will perform under constant testing months out from the fight. Everyone takes a side on this but if you’re objective you have to consider this. We just don’t know. So again right now I say GGG is the favorite. He may open at -160.

I think Beterbiev is a terrific puncher but he’s another guy who is extremely inactive. In my opinion he’s slow at getting off and I think it will haunt him vs the elite. Bivol has elite boxer puncher written all over him. At this moment I think Bivol is too skilled, too fast and his mind quickness is too much.

gennady-golovkin (12)_1

Who do you favor in the Wilder vs Joshua negotiations and Canelo vs GGG negotiations? Is 50/50 fair for GGG? He took 70/30 last time? 50 million is a big check for Joshua is that fair or no?

Bread’s Response: I’m going to tell you something that you may not like. Fans, boxing media and everyone that does not directly benefit from the fights shouldn’t concern themselves with the negotiations. Here is why:

Fighters and their teams lie. They run to social media or the boxing media first just to get their story out so they can sway public opinion. Just because they say it doesn’t mean it’s true. There are so many things that the public doesn’t have privy to. We just don’t know. There are hidden monies from so many different places that go far BEYOND a REPORTED fight purse. I see even smart boxing people fall for the misdirection. I learned this about 8 years ago….

So that being said if you love Golden Boy and Canelo you think GGG should take whatever Canelo gives him. If you love GGG you think he deserves 50/50. If you’re a PBC basher you think Joshua deserves more than 50 million. If you love the PBC you think 50 million is an overpayment.

Meanwhile you have no idea what any of the fine print says in the contracts. The Floyd vs Pacman debate should have taught you guys not to indulge in these rich people problems. It surely taught me.

Do you think Jamie Munguia can clean out 154? He seems to be eager to take the big fights. I think he’s a beast. We haven’t seen too many 6ft athletic Mexicans who can punch.

Bread’s Response: I think Munguia is a very ambitious young man. I respect his ambition as much as anyone’s in boxing. He took the GGG fight on short notice then he took the Ali fight on short notice. So in an era where fighters “act” like they want to fight, Munguia actually does. His handlers really have confidence in him. I’m curious to hear some sparring stories on Munguia.

But just because you’re willing to fight anyone doesn’t mean you can beat everyone. Lot’s of time young undefeated fighters are the most confident. Let’s see how confident he is under some adversity. Munguia did his thing vs Sadam Ali but I can’t go crazy over one performance of Ali who was stopped by Jesse Vargas at 147. Vargas has about 10 kos in almost 30 fights…..

Right now I will say I just don’t know about Munguia. He may be a little overvalued because of that one performance. Let’s see how he performs against a variety of styles and opponents. Right now I see a big, strong, aggressive kid, who can punch a bit. But I just don’t look at the final results. I study the fights. Munguia makes some mistakes. Ali was cracking him with some nice counters he just couldn’t get a toe hold and he couldn’t take the punches. So let’s see what happens.

I loved your response to the stamina question. It was very enlightening. So to get your exact perspective can you break it down in % as to what contributes to maximum stamina?

Bread’s Response: Food and vitamins are the fuel and oil for the vehicle which is the body. Smart fighters understand this. So they put the right things in their bodies all the time, not just for show.

Working out and doing the right things. I think fighters should do cardio, explosive work and applicable boxing work on a consistent basis. I think this is the tricky one. You have so many different theories on over training. I personally think the word is over used but it is real. Of course you’re going to be tired after a brutal workout. But if you get the proper recovery and nutrition you will recover. So it coincides.

Genetically some people are just superior. Look at some kids in their kindergarten classes. Some will just run, climb and move faster. It’s just the way it is.

So to be exact I think they are all equal but you can get to great heights with average genetics but great work ethic. I have also seen guys get to great heights with great genetics and average work ethic. The guys with above average genetics but not great and average work ethic are the biggest failures. The reason being is they look the part and great compliments and expectations get bestowed upon them. But they usually lose in big moments and their fall is steep because of the expectations.

I want to add this. It all comes back to character. Integrity. YOU CAN’T CHEAT THE GRIND. Do the right thing when even when no one is looking and will know and you will be successful. Most fighters lack integrity and that’s why only 2% reach “special” heights.

Who are your all time favorite fighters? Not the best but your favorites and why? I know this is a tough one for you because you don’t want to seem biased.

Bread’s Response: This is tough. So what I will do is I won’t name active fighters only retired ones.

Ray Leonard is my guy. He was the best and most recognizable fighter of my childhood so my view of him is just different. As I got older I realized my view was correct. No one in history has ever defeated the #1 p4p fighter in boxing 3 times besides Leonard. He defeated Duran in 1980, Hearns in 1981 and Hagler in 1987 when all were considered the best. He also fought killers in their primes or close to it. He was such a GUN he fought a prime Terry Norris when he was old. His victory over Hearns is still the best big fight adjustment and change of styles I have ever seen.

Muhammad Ali is the greatest in and out of the ring. No one takes so many tough fights as an underdog. No modern fighter fought so many tough rematches giving capable fighters multiple chances to beat him. I don’t have to state what he did outside of the ring, we know the story and social status. But in the ring Ali was a killer disguised as a model. He came out the best fighter of the best heavyweight era ever and he was past his prime during the era. Frazier, Holmes, Foreman etc are all younger than Ali. He’s the most courageous human being to ever step in a boxing ring. He’s the motivation for many.

Sugar Ray Robinson is just unreal. I was able to see some old footage of him in his prime in the mid 40s vs Tony Riccio and another guy I can’t remember. He’s the best fighter ever. Please don’t argue with me. He is. He had a great fighters body. His athleticism is on par with Roy Jones’s. Jones fought in color in an HD tv era. I’m telling you Robinson is on par athletically and above Jones in skillset and way above in durability. In an era with no youtube, no boxrec, 6 oz horse gloves , same day weigh ins and loaded divisions. He went 128-1 in his first 11 years as a pro. We see footage of him as an acient fighter. He was only stopped once by a HOF light heavyweight in Joey Maxim. He was winning the fight and passed out due to heat exhaustion.

 I will tell a quick story. I asked my grand pop who saw Robinson fight several times live who would win between Leonard and Robinson. I was about 10 years old. My grandpop said to me” Stevie I thought you liked Leonard”. He then put on the Pound for Pound vhs video of Robinson. I watched it every day for a month. I couldn’t believe it.

Joe Louis. Louis was in a terrible position as a fighter. He had to be humble in a time that was not kind to people of color. A black man had not got a shot at the heavyweight championship in almost 30 years. Louis had to make silent agreements not to gloat or be boastful after his wins despite taunting. This takes a lot when you know you’re best.

From a boxing perspective I love 3 things about Louis. One is his punch technique is still the best in the history of boxing. In basketball for example you see shooting form and dribbling has evolved. But in boxing Louis’s punches are still the best ever. He has better technique than Deontay Wilder does 80 years later. To watch Louis deliver his blows is pure joy to a purist.

The second thing is his calm demeanor. You see so many kids today that just have no idea how to finish a man. Go to boxrec and just pick one of his title defenses. He understands how to finish. He never rushes himself. He’s fast but he’s never in a hurry. He puts together real combinations and bullsh*t.

Louis was kod as a prospect. Not only did he regroup but he went on to have the best and most consistent career of any heavyweight champion before or after him. Most fighters get ruined by a ko loss as a prospect. Louis had the quiet confidence of a millionaire doing a bank run.

Evander Holyfield is my guy. The Evan Fields controversy has really bothered me, I have to admit. But the case is not concrete and I just don’t know enough details to convict him yet although I will admit there is some serious circumstantial evidence. It bothers me to talk about it but it would irresponsible to NOT bring it up. That being said I have to be honest. As a teenager in highschool what I witnessed from Holyfield used to make me cry out of emotion. He was an animal. What he gave is very uncommon. I got into fist fights defending his honor and whoever beat him I hated them for that moment. My feelings for Holyfield were real. He’s one of the few fighters I never rooted against. His win over Qawi in his 1st title shot was so thrilling to me as a kid that I was sweating profusely. I knew that fighting a 15 rounder in your 12th fight vs a great fighter in all of that heat was a different type of character.

I like character guys. I like fighters who take fights they don’t have to take and they find a way to win. I like guys who will take fights as huge underdogs and believe in themselves when no one else does. All of the guys on my list are special in that regard.
 
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User Comments and Feedback (Register For Free To Comment) Comment by aboutfkntime on 06-04-2018

[QUOTE=aboutfkntime;18826028]focusing on the IBF weighin, is just making silly excuses I have no real problem with the IBF weigh in, but..... 1) no other organisation requires a same-day weighin 2) PLENTY of great champions did not represent the IBF so…

Comment by aboutfkntime on 06-04-2018

[QUOTE=aboutfkntime;18828543]he tied the middleweight defense record by avoiding his mando to select yet another NO-HOPER..... there was nothing heroic about that lol we can agree to disagree peace[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=factsarenice;18830933]My man, still pumping up Canelo the drug cheat.[/QUOTE] when did I…

Comment by buge on 06-04-2018

I like Breadman's columns, but saying Joe Louis had great technique because it's better than a modern Deontay Wilder isn't saying much.

Comment by factsarenice on 06-04-2018

You're a troll, a negative bot, sock puppet, shill that makes crap up to muddying the waters so you can smokescreen your real motive and that is to pump up the drug cheat…Canelo [QUOTE=aboutfkntime;18826028]focusing on the IBF weighin, is just…

Comment by factsarenice on 06-04-2018

[QUOTE=aboutfkntime;18828543]he tied the middleweight defense record by avoiding his mando to select yet another NO-HOPER..... there was nothing heroic about that lol we can agree to disagree peace[/QUOTE] My man, still pumping up Canelo the drug cheat.

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