By Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards

The Daily Bread Mailbag returns as Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards answers questions on Robert Duran's historical standing, Lennox Lewis vs. Vitali Klitschko, Floyd Mayweather Jr, thoughts on some of the best fighters of all-time, and more.

Bread

I’ve noticed that Roberto Duran almost ALWAYS ends up on most peoples “top fighters of all time” list. I’ve been a fan since ’87, one of my most cherished early boxing memories was his improbable win against Iran Barkley but still I don’t get why this man is revered the way he is by most boxing aficionados. Look, I’m not saying the man isn’t great but according to the ‘masses’ Duran to boxing is like Willie Mays to baseball.  F’n living legend!!  I understand the man made his debut back when most TVs were still black and white (1968) and outside of a couple of fights I’ve been able to watch on you tube I haven’t seen much but still what am I missing when it comes to Duran?

Thank you for your time.

Cesar

Bread’s Response: Man if you don’t get why a 38 yr old man, who’s best weight was 135lbs, who turned pro at 119lbs in 1968, beating a certified bad ass at 160 in 1989, who happened to be one of the biggest middleweights(Iran Barkley) in history then I don’t know what to tell you.

Roberto Doooran as my great uncle used to call him is no worse than the 5th or 6th best fighter ever. He’s as natural as a fighter as you will ever see. Smooth defense, two fisted attack. Ferocious temperament and a killer “I will fight anybody at any weight attitude.”

Let me tell you how to research a great fighter. Figure out what his prime years were. Duran’s was from 73-80. Then go to boxrec and write down the names of the fighters he fought during that time. I would say Hector Thompson. Esteban De Jesus2 and 3, Ray Lampkin, Carlos Palomino and Ray Leonard 1. After watching these fights I want you to watch post prime fights in Davey Moore, Marvin Hagler and Iran Barkley again. Watching a fight as a kid and watching a fight as an adult when you know the nuances is  different. Take your time when watching these fights. Afterwards you tell me if you have seen a better natural fighter.

If Duran took care of himself better and didn’t quit against Leonard in their 2nd fight, he’s next to Ray Robinson. I can see why Floyd Mayweather had him #2 ever. He was that good, especially on his best night.

He was also a killer as to who he would fight. He was a little guy and he took on some huge punchers, who were younger and much bigger. Marvin Hagler, Davey Moore, Iran Barkley and Thomas Hearns. Please research Mr. Duran before you start in on him.

Hey Breadman,

Wanted your take on Vitali Klitscho. vs. Lennox Lewis-some people make too much about the stoppage, the cut above Vitali's eye was horrible and if it continued Lennox would've focused on it like a laser beam and V. would've been fighting with one eye, Lennox was on his way to K'Oing Klitscho.

Second, mythical matchup, Ali vs. Vladimir, I got Ali by late TKO, too fast for Vladimir, and while Vlad loves to use that strong jab, Ali's jab was twice as fast and strong enough to a guy even as strong as Vlad down.

What say you?

Bread’s Response: Good question. I watched that Lewis vs Klitschko fight as it happened. It was a tremendous fight. The stoppage was legit, that was a serious punch that cut Vitali’s eye. But what would have happened had the fight went on is a different story.

I’m not so sure I agree with you. Vitali had quit against Chris Byrd and he was fighting Lewis like a demon. He had something to prove and I really believe Lewis was not in the best shape. Lewis was landing thunder but he looked fatigued to me. I don’t know what would have happened. But I do know what my eyes told me. Lewis was very tired and Vitali was not. I may be a blood thirsty ghoul but at the time I agreed with the stoppage but I wanted to see Vitali have at least one more round. I still feel that way.

Ali destroys Wlad Klitschko. He’s too weak mentally to deal with Ali. People take for granted mental strength. Everytime someone fights Wlad back hard he doesn’t look like a killer. Bryant Jennings just did and Wlad just looked pretty good. Ali would fight back and then some. Some think his size would bother Ali but Ali stayed on his toes in an in out rhythm which is how you “box” a taller fighter.

Manny Pacquiao, Evander Holyfield and Shawn Porter (today) all adopt that same in and out rhythm. Watch Ali vs Ernie Terrell and Cleveland Williams he can actually punch off of that bounce and ko you.

Wlad is taller than Ali but Wlad does not have what you call long arms. Don’t look at his reach but look at the actual length of his arms. Ali’s arms were longer, he was faster and his stamina is so much better that Wlad’s chances after 6 rounds become so slim……, I agree with you, he kos him.

Good Afternoon Breadman,

It's always good to get your perspective.  I've got a question that I'm thinking about posing to my a couple of my buddies that all have different viewpoints on who ranks where as far as the greatest to ever to do it.  My question is, if you had to bet your house on one boxer to win it all, in a tournament of all the greatest boxers in their respective primes and also in their respective divisions who would it be and at what weight class.  I know this is a hypothetical question but at the same time, I think it eliminates a little bit of the "he's better, no he's better" banter and gets you to figuratively put your "money" where your mouth is.  I know we often do these comparisons in a pound for pound type of scenario but I think we often still analyze it from the bigger guy's standpoint, which skews our judgement.  My money would be on Duran at lightweight....Thanks again for always supporting the troops..

Prime

Bread’s Response: Great question. Duran at lightweight is a great pick. My pick would be Ray Robinson at welterweight. I saw some footage of him from 1944 and 1946. I also saw some when he knocked out Jean Stock in 1950 before he relinquished the welterweight title. If there is a better fighter than him on his best night I have yet to see him. My second and third picks would be Ray Leonard at welterweight and Roy Jones at super middleweight.

Ray Leonard  defeated every type of style which is a great quality for a tournament style. He beat a great swarmer in Duran. A pure boxer in Benitez. A tall rangy stalker in Hearns. And a hard nose technician in Hagler.

Roy Jones from 94-96 was an untouchable as a fighter that I have seen. You literally couldn’t touch Roy for about 7 or 8 years. If you got too close to him he had legitimate one punch power in either hand to the head or body, and some of fastest reflexes I have ever seen. In a 12 round fight during that time, he was literally unbeatable.

Bread,

What’s up?

Read your mb this morning, laughed about your Frankie Carbo and Blinky Palermo references (mobsters) and laughed more when you put King, Arum and Haymon alongside of them.

How’s Jules doing?

I get Floyd’s list don’t agree with it but he did make some valid points. Ali did lose to a 7 fight fighter, but he was on the downside of his career. Ali was not the same fighter after the 3 years he was exiled from boxing basically for saying “no viet cong ever called me nigger”. Ali did make a stand but so did John Carlos and Tommie Smith in 1968. And so did Joe Louis in his 1938 rematch against Max Schmelling. Jack Johnson also made a stand back in 1910.

Floyd looks at the totality of a fighters career while most of us donot, we focus on a fighters prime fights and neglect the rest. Floyd does this because he knows if he convincingly loses a lot of critics and naysayers will dismiss his whole career so those are the eyes he sees other fighters out of.   

My top 6 list looks like this

1)      Sugar Ray Robinson – absolutely the best.

2)      Joe Louis – the so called “Bum of the Month Club” was a slight back in the day when anything a black man did was minimized, those fighters weren’t bums at all.

3)      Muhammad Ali – the 3rd best heavyweight of all times.

4)      Jack Dempsey – 4th greatest heavyweight champion off all times.

5)      Archie Moore – the old mongoose whose prime lasted into his mid forties (born in 1913 not 1916).

6)      Jack Johnson – the 1st great heavyweight champion.

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25) Floyd Mayweather Jr – a defensive genius fights UP to the level of his competition.

It seems to me that the old-timers knew how to fistfight with bad intentions (they fought in 6oz gloves). For them they entertained by trying to beat the “shit” out of their foes (Zale/Graziano), today’s fighter is conscientious and tries not to hurt his opponent. It’s just entertainment to the modern fighter.

Bread’s Response: My main man Rob Jackson I will go backwards…

Yes these kids today step off the gas when they have a fighter hurt and no one fights to hurt anymore. It’s so ridiculous. I try to teach scientific violence. Watch Ike Williams vs Beau Jack if you want to know how to finish a hurt a man.

I like your list but it’s heavyweight heavy. I wouldn’t have Dempsey so high although he was terrific and had the best inside left hook I ever saw.

I just recently had to correct someone about Joe Louis. The man fought 10 HOFs yet his competition was called the Bum of the Month club. He fought more HOF than any other heavyweight champion in history but yet his competition is called the BUM of the Month Club. Go figure…When doing my list I probably should have put Joe Louis over Willie Pep….

Floyd does fight UP not down. Floyd has the unique ability to fight as good as he has too. He can really rise to the occasion. I often think about certain fights that didn’t take place and what style would he have used to overcome them. Casamayor and Freitas around 2000. Stevie Johnston in 2002 after the Castillo fights. Tsyzu in 2004. Margarito and Cotto 2006-08 and Pacman 08-10.

I actually rank Floyd similar to where you rank him. People don’t realize how high that is for a modern fighter who fights twice a year.

Lots of athletes took stands in the 70’s. But Ali was a king amongst kings.

I understand why Floyd looks at the total career. And you’re right if he loses badly it will be held against him. It’s a gift and a curse….Here is why. Besides Bernard Hopkins and Archie Moore, No fighter in history has been this highly regarded at such an advanced age. So Floyd figures that his longevity and sustained excellence makes him the best. It’s a great argument. It holds weight. I give more emphasis on the higher peak but I’m not mad at him one bit for his point of view. In Floyd’s case he may not be at his peak but it still looks like he’s in his prime. He’s #1 in the world. So if he loses while being considered #1, it can’t be dismissed as easily. So it’s definitely a gift and curse to be so good for so long.

Send questions to dabreadman25@hotmail.com