By Ryan Songalia
Veteran trainer and fighter John "Iceman" Scully may be only 39 years of age, but they don't come as seasoned in the sport as does this Hartford native. After a distinguished professional and amateur career that made him a local legend and earned him a world title opportunity, Scully now lends his knowledge and understanding of the sport to younger charges that he helps to mold into contenders. I spoke with boxing guru about his stable and the continuing education of a modern boxing icon.
Ryan Songalia: What's the latest word from the boxing realm of John "The Iceman" Scully? John Scully: I've been very busy lately with all the boxing going on. Just last night I had three of my boxers win state boxing titles in the finals of our local tournament and, of course, Jose Rivera is getting ready to fight in January and then we have Mike Oliver and Pito Cardona with fights coming up, too.
BoxingScene.com: Let's start with Rivera, who will be facing Travis Simms. Simms is a southpaw, cagey, and a workman-like fighter that gives an honest account of himself inside the ring. Expound on the implications of this fight, what are your thoughts as this bout approaches?
Scully: "At this point every fight is huge for Jose because you are always hoping and assuming that winning will put you that much closer to the higher profile fights with maybe Cory Spinks or Antonio Margarito. Jose is very aware that he needs to beat people like this to get to guys like that. He trains with great desire and intensity for every fight anyway so you will definitely see one of the best conditioned athletes on January 6."
BoxingScene.com: Now that the cat is out of the bag, I feel we can address this. You are one of the foremost authorites on the amateur system in the Northeast. When the story broke about Simms' mis-informations regarding his credentials as a fighter and his accomplishments in the amateurs, did you see this as a sort of internal weakness that your charge could exploit in the ring?
Scully: Well, I was thinking about this earlier today actually and it's clear to me that anybody that embellishes the truth about their own accomplishments has it in their mind, basically, that they want to make people see them in a different light because they aren't completely happy with what they accomplished in reality. The thing is Simms had a pretty decent amateur career anyway and there's no reason to say anything other than what you did. It could be that he told someone these things not realizing that the boxing world would eventually find out. Or maybe he told someone he thought wouldn't know better. Maybe it's a character weakness, who knows? If there is something in him that is a weakness like that then Jose will find it when they fight because Jose trains now in a manner that is hard to believe. He lives for the later rounds and he lives to show what a well conditioned fighter he is."
BoxingScene.com: Jose Rivera has been living on the outersphere of the boxing world, just outside of the big money and the big major fights in the sport for the last few years. This fight will not be aired on television in spite of a Junior Middleweight strap being up for grabs, is that a sign of the sport's dismissal of Rivera or just simple boxing and broadcasting politics?
Scully: "Well, actually, I have been told as of this past Wednesday that the fight is now going to be shown on Showtime on the 6th and thats because it has Jose Rivera in it. I was also told that the fight originally wasn't slated to be on TV because of the fact that Simms was our opponent and not one of the big, big names. People need to realize that it is the WBA that is forcing this fight, not Showtime. If they had their way we would be up against Corey Spinks this time out".
BoxingScene.com: Simms is a southpaw like Spinks, is this fight an audition for a unifiction bout for next year?
Scully: "I would have to say that everybody involved wants to see Jose versus Spinks come out of this. Boxing is a business and very few people would pay good money to see a southpaw like Simms who isn't really well known against a guy like Corey who is well known but doesn't always match up well stylistically with everyone else. Corey needs Jose so that both guys can be in a high profile fight that will showcase each of their styles in a fan friendly way."
BoxingScene.com: You also mention Margarito, who recently won a lackluster fight with Joshua Clottey. What are your thoughts on Margarito as of late and what are your realistic estimations regarding the possibility to make this fight?
Scully: "Well, if Jose picks up another impressive win on Showtime and if he feels he needs to go to 154 to get people to fight him then we are right there. I mean, if you can think of anyone else at this weight that would fully bring out all that Margarito is supposed to be, that engage Margarito in the type of fight that any boxing fan on this earth would love to watch, it would be Jose Anotnio Rivera."
BoxingScene.com: Outside of Rivera, another one of your pupils who has been making noise has been 122 pounder Mike Mike Oliver. Oliver recently won his first 12 round assignment, picking up a regional belt in the process. How impressed were you with Oliver's showing that night and give us a prognosis on what we can see from him in the near future?
Scully: "Mike Oliver is one of the most unique fighters in the world today. He has been boxing, literally, since he was two or three years old and this is what he has done continually since that time. The thing I love about him, on top of his amazing speed, killer instinct, combination punching and reflexes, is the fact that he will literally fight anyone in the world that we tell him to. You have to understand something. This is a kid who I guarantee you if you told him 'Tell me who the WBC or WBA champion is', he would have no idea. He doesn't watch these guys and he doesnt care.
"I will tell you a funny thing. You have Kid Stark from New York who drove all the way to Connecticut for Mike's last fight to kind of challenege him and afterwards they were saying that Mike-Mike was ducking Gary and, no disrespect to Gary because he's a great kid, but Mike-Mike doesn't have the slightest idea who Gary is. If Gary walked up to Mike-Mike right now and said hello, Mike still couldn't tell you who he is. As a matter of fact someone told Mike a few days ago that Gary still wants to fight him and Mike called me and said 'Scully, my friend told me that that guy from New York you told me about still wants to fight me.'"
BoxingScene.com: Oliver has had the kind of rags to riches type of story that comes out of boxing lore from time to time. How has the unique course that his life has taken him affected him as a fighter, how has it prepared him for the trevails of combat?
Scully: "Well, to tell you the truth I don't think it is that big of a deal to him. Mike has always been a very simple kid in the sense that all he ever needed was boxing and the gym and the people involved with it. He hangs out with fighters and guys from the gym. He goes to fights. He's lived in the ghetto for his entire life and has boxed for all but two or three years of his life. It's the craziest thing in the world but if Mike-Mike Oliver ever won the world title he will be the only world champion who still hangs out in the gym with kids from the gym and shops at Wal-Mart. He still won't watch the other guys in his weight class and he won't care."
BoxingScene.com: What's the latest with Pito Cordona, he's been on a mini-comeback of sorts, what's going on with him as of late?
Scully: "He is still in the gym and apparently there is a very good chance they are going to do another big show right here in Hartford at the Convention Center and if they do he will be one of the two TV fights. He has the name, the record and style that can get him a big fight when the time comes."
BoxingScene.com: How has he been looking from your perspective, does he still have it to be a strong contender after the long layoffs?
Scully: "I believe that once he gets three fights in a row under his belt without months and months in between he will be close to getting back to where he was when he was a top flight contender. He showed me in some awesome sparring sesions with Jose before Jose won the title that he still has a lot left."
BoxingScene.com: A fighter you know a little about, Peter Manfredo Jr., is going to be taking the flight over to England for the fight of his life against Joe Calzaghe. What are your thoughts on that showdown? And how has Manfredo changed as a fighter without his father being the primary voice in the corner, with Freddie Roach now operating as chief second?
Scully: Well, it's obviously a huge task to actually go over there and win against a guy like that but Peter has been on a huge upswing lately mentally as well as physically now that he is at his proper weight. Freddy adds a lot to the mix apparently, but I think it is also the atmosphere at rhe Wild Card Gym where you are there with Toney, Viloria and Pacquiao among others every day. I give Peter a better chance than most do, asumming of course that the juding is all on the up and up."
BoxingScene.com: You spoke about your amateur team coming up big earlier, what's going on with your headgear warriors?
Scully: "Well, I have Sammy Vega back in the gym now and last night he won the Connecticut state open title at 125 pounds. Back in the 1990's, Sammy was one of the best Junior Olympic boxers in this country, a National Junior Olympian and a National Silver Gloves champion, and he beat top guys like Verquan Kimbrough, NABF champ Adam Carrera and Jose Aguiniga twice. Aguiniga is something like 30-0 now as apro. Sammy also lost decisions to Jose Navarro and Robert Guerrero. He is now back in action and is heading into regional competition on his way, hopefully to the 2007 National Championships."
BoxingScene.com: James Toney is trying to turn the tables following his first loss in 9 years to Sam Peter. Give us something to think about with that matchup.
Scully: "James is one of the best, yet one of the most frustrating fighters in the world ever. The fact that he was a middleweight who now takes the best punches of guys like Rahman and Peter without showing the effects of them is amazing. How many former middleweights could ever stand up to Samuel Peter? I am seriously hoping James stands up and takes his game to another level because if he does he wins this fight cleanly and clearly."
BoxingScene.com: I understand that you have met MC Hammer before. Was it Hammer Time or was he simply 2 Legit too quit?
Scully: "So I see Hammer and there was a big group of people around him getting pictures and autographs. I like to get pics so I go over and I am kind of waiting for an opportunity. He has a big bodyguard with him and the guy is annoyed at the people it seems. So finally I get next to him and I am about to ask for a picture and this guy jumps in before I can and says 'That's it, man. No more pictures.' I am like 'What? I was standing here for a while, come on.' He sas no again so I figure I missed the chance.
"As I was walking away, though, I remember something that my father the salesman always told me was his key to success. 'Never take no for an answer.' So I turned around and went back over by Hammer and he was there by himself now and the bodyguard was turned the other way trying to stop someone else from coming over. So I grabbed Al Cole and handed him my camera and said 'Take this quickly.' I asked Hammer and he was real cool, said 'yeah, come on, let's take a good one.' By the time I was posing with Hammer the bodyguard had turned around and was looking right at me. I couldn't help but give the dude a real smug look, like a half smile, half smirk that said 'That's right big man. I'm back and I got the picture.' He was not pleased with me. I still have the picture, too."
BoxingScene.com: "Among your many memories in the boxing business, one of them includes getting wacked below the belt by Carmen Basilio. Describe the experience to us.
Scully: "That was back around 1992 at a boxing dinner in Connecticut and Basilio was there. At the end of the night it was a thing where my trainer, a young guy at the time, a former fight named Pepe Vazquez, at the time was fooling with Carmen, shadowboxing with him. So I go over and I am acting like I am Pepe's backup and I put my hands up like I am going to fight, too. So Basilio turns towards me and squares up with me and when he kind of rushed towards me, as a reaction, I pulled out what is my favorite move as a fighter. He's coming in and I grab him behind the elbow and turn him away from me. I do that in fights and sparring all the time. I teach all my boxers that move, it allows you to push your opponent off balance and then counter him before he can set up again.
"So as I did it I was thinking how smoothly that went and how I'm gonna' tell people how I pulled my maneuver on the great Basilio. As he was being pulled by me, though, he reached out with his left hand, just as quickly as I had grabbed his elbow and turned him, and he clipped right below the belt with what you could say was a very well placed shot."
BoxingScene.com: You were a pallbearer at Willie Pep's funeral, who recently passed away. What are your emotions at the lack of a significant turnout from the boxing world at the funeral of a true asset to the sport?
Scully: "Well, people can easily say there wasnt enough time to plan, it was a sudden thing, or they could say they had something to do that day and that would be understandable, but at the same time this was a man that was one of the top five greatest fighters of all time and I think that if his era wasn't so long ago that many people in the boxing game, certainly New York, New Jersey and Massachusetts people would have found their way there. I mean, if one of the top thre pound for pound fighters in the world today lived here in Hartford and passed away I think quite a few writers, TV people, historians, fighters, trainers, promoters and managers would find their way here. Willie deserved the boxing world to be here."
BoxingScene.com: In closing, tell us what we can expect for your fighters in the new year.
BoxingScene.com: Happy Holidays John and thanks for your time.
Scully: You too, my man. Thanks for having me. And as always, stay short."
BoxingScene.com: Will do, Iceman. Will do.
Any questions or comments? Send them to my email at mc_rson@yahoo.com . My Myspace address is http://www.myspace.com/asian_sensation201 . My website is https://www.boxingscene.com/ryansongalia .
