Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards is at your service again with questions answered about Vergil Ortiz vs. Boots Ennis, Terence Crawford, Super Six tournaments in the current era and the best punchers in boxing today.
Hi there Breadman. I was watching David Benavidez on Froch on Fighting and he showed a lot of respect for Froch. They got to talking about the Super 6 tournament. If you could pick three divisions for a super six or super eight, what would they be, which participants would you include, which division do you think would provide the best fights and which would benefit most from making a star from it? All the best, Damien.
Bread’s response: The good thing about the Super 6 was how it was formatted. The promoters got it. They took three black American fighters in Andre Ward, Andre Dirrell and Jermaine Taylor and they took three European fighters in Arthur Abraham, Mikkel Kessler and Carl Froch. In the first round they matched the three Americans vs the three Europeans and they went from there. Matchmaking is always prevalent in boxing but this tournament excelled in it. The best fighter won. And that fighter was Andre Ward. He’s the only fighter who didn’t lose. I loved it and I wish it was done again in this era.
If I had to pick divisions for a Super 6, my first pick would be junior middleweight (154lbs) – what a tournament. The six fighters would be easy to pick. All four champions (Fundora, Abbass, Xayas and Bakhram) alongside Boots Ennis and Vergil Ortiz.
The next division would be junior welterweight (140lbs). Teofimo Lopez, Richardson Hitchins, Gary Antuanne Russell, Subriel Matthias, Shakur Stevenson and maybe young gun who’s entering the contender stages.
The last division would be heavyweight. Usyk is the obvious #1 seed. But Agit Kabayel looks to be a real #1 contender. Moses Itauma seems to have elite talent. Fabio Wardley looks like a spoiler. Throw in Jai Opetai and again pick another formidable rising contender and you have the participants.
What up Bread. So, I'm still confident in my pick, Ennis over Vergil, but I am a little nervous as Ortiz is on a heater right now. Ennis should win, I just hope he doesn't get overconfident or caught between punches. So far, he's really used his athleticism and natural ability to overcome opponents. I hope he can rely more on his vs the tougher opponents. With Eubank-Benn II coming up, are you a fan of back-to-back rematches, more specifically if they were gruelling fights? Not sure if they can match that first one. P.S. what was your first ever mailbag? I know you said you were on another site. I've been reading this one since maybe 2018 or 19.
Bread’s response: My first mailbag was in November or December of 2009 on boxingtalk.com.
Back-to-back rematches don’t bother me if the first fight was a good one. Eubank vs Benn was a very good fight the first time. So it makes sense to do it again.
Ortiz has improved. He looked really good. But I don’t want to keep talking about Ennis vs Ortiz. I would rather wait until the fight gets signed and announced. After listening to some of the comments after the fight, I don’t have confidence that they’re going to fight next. Ortiz’s manager made a public demand of $10m to face Boots. He also suggested a double header of Ortiz vs Errol Spence and Boots vs Jermell Charlo. So the fight doesn’t look likely at this current moment in my opinion. I hope I’m wrong.
Hey Stephen, hope all is well. Just wanted to say your answer in your mailbag about Victor was great. I know you are an overall smart guy and a whiz the numbers, but you must have really excelled at the literary arts stuff in school. You have a natural raw and moving way with the pen. Salute to you my guy. SB
Bread’s response: I have experience in public speaking. So I can articulate pretty good. But in all honesty, I was just telling the truth. Vic was my friend and he deserved praise from me.
Breadman, It seems like Vergil can/should win tonight and I’m rooting for him. But I also have a feeling and am putting a modest wager on Lubin. Head and heart say Ortiz but my gut has a different read. I know you’re serious about your bets, do you ever find yourself between head/heart/gut on a wager? However, it goes I look forward to hearing your post-fight thoughts on what happened. And it seems the oddsmakers like Brian Norman over Devin Haney. I expect and am rooting for Norman and was genuinely surprised Haney sought him out. But in a good way. As a fan it moves me from not caring about Devin Haney one way or another to giving him props (however the fight goes) and I don’t think I’ll wager against him. Will you share your take on this fight with us: What do you think of the matchmaking and how do you see Norman v Haney playing out in the ring? Many thanks for the always good mailbag, Ming
Bread’s response: Lubin was a +650 underdog. The odds looked tempting, but I just couldn’t bring myself to bet on Lubin with the hostile circumstances he had to face. What I saw was Ortiz being revved up and ready to go in the first round. He jumped on Lubin right away. Ortiz may have fought at smaller weights, but he filled out more after the weigh in, he looked imposing. I thought he hurt Lubin towards the end of the 1st round and buzzed him again early in the 2nd round. Ortiz’s quickness and punch release threw Lubin off. Then I saw Lubin go the ropes. Fighters often go back to things they had success with. Lubin was able to play the ropes vs. Jesus Ramos. But Ortiz attacks harder and with more frenetic energy than Ramos. So, Lubin didn’t have time to pick Ortiz apart.
I saw Ortiz attack Lubin with lots of heart and passion. He wasn’t worried about what Lubin could do to him, he was concentrating on what he could do to Lubin. I was very impressed with Ortiz – that was a monster performance under the bright lights.
I respect Haney and Norman for taking this fight. I expect Haney to have an advantage in terms of speed and athleticism. I look for Norman to be the stronger fighter and better puncher. I expect both to try to impose their strengths on the other. This is a very close fight but in these types of fights, I usually favor the fighter who can score points at a higher rate…
Hi Mr. Edwards, I'm a long-time reader but this is my first-time writing in. I appreciate your knowledge and rational, candid answers, I feel you're one of the few out there really giving the public true insight and knowledge of the sweet science. I think when it's all said and done your legacy may come to equal that of Teddy Atlas who is getting up in years so that torch may be passed to you in the future. My question: Does good character contribute to being a good fighter? And if it doesn't, does it at least contribute to longevity? We hear stories in the gym about certain fighters who are not the best people and may have some good wins, but by my observation is they don't seem to have long careers. Is my assessment accurate or just wishful thinking? Also, a great recent example of a fighter with great character is Terence Crawford. From what I can see he is a clean cut, clean living, dedicated family man who keeps on defying the odds and seemingly defying father time as well. I don't understand why he's not considered an American hero. For example, during Canelo's post fight press conference he gave the champ back his belts, there was no fanfare, he didn't pose for pictures, it was just a real respectful classy move. A lot of fighters wouldn't have done that (I remember how the Charlos reacted after winning against one of your fighters, for example). Does character contribute to how good a fighter is, his toughness, his ability to overcome adversity and the odds, his dedication to training etc? Or does it just come down to God-given talent and a trainer that will push them? Don from Dubrovnik
Bread’s response: Thank you. Yes, good character contributes to being a good fighter. But I think you’re missing something. Just because an elite fighter is not a good person, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t have character that will contribute to him being a good fighter. A fighter can be a mean and cheap person. But he may be disciplined and dedicated to boxing. He may have courage and natural athleticism. He can still be a great fighter with longevity and not be what you call a nice person. There are layers to that.
I personally know fighters who aren’t well liked because they aren’t good people, but they’re well respected because they’re great fighters. Mike Tyson once said, he knows a lot of GREAT people, who aren’t GOOD people.
Now do I believe being a bad person, comes back on you in some type of way? Heck, yeah I do. But I also know, KARMA comes when it comes and not everybody gets it at the same time or the same way. I think you’re speaking of this and that’s a tricky topic to touch. Not everyone gets their karma for public consumption. They may appear to have a great life publicly but privately they have serious issues… I also think you’re alluding to certain types of character. For example, if a fighter is a bully and front runner in real life, it shows up in the ring. Yes, it does show up, but with talented fighters it takes a certain level of fighter to bring it out of them. So again there are too many levels of character to discuss this at length.
I think Terence Crawford has tremendous character but not for the reasons you speak of. Some of you guys may not know it, but it’s standard to return the belts to the champion after you win them in the ring. Then after the fight, the sanctioning bodies send the new champion their own belts. It’s not a thing where the new champion gets to take home the belts of the champion he just defeated. Once a fighter wins a world championship belt, it’s his for life.
I think Crawford has excellent character because he stuck with his original team throughout his career. In boxing the higher ups usually try to get fighters to leave their original teams and go with more established or big-name trainers. Omaha, Nebraska is not known as a fighting city. Yet Crawford kept his original trainers and look where he is now.
I also love how Crawford didn’t let the business of boxing deter him. The business has broken more fighters than their opponents. Yet Crawford, who was on the outside looking in for many years, stayed the course and broke through at 35 years old. That’s a tremendous accomplishment and it took character. Crawford literally OUTFOUGHT the system of boxing which is tougher than any opponent in history.
Last but not least, Crawford is always in immaculate shape when he enters the ring. No matter his age or inactivity, he goes in the ring in elite shape. That’s character. That’s discipline. That’s dedication. That’s a willingness to suffer each and every camp. That’s special character. Trust me, it’s very hard for fighters to train consistently and get in great shape for each and every camp. One of the reasons why Crawford is so consistent is because of this. This is not motivation. This is discipline. Motivation runs out once you accomplish your goals. Discipline remains because you do what you’re supposed to do no matter what.
Hey Bread, did you hear Andre Ward’s comments about Boots Ennis? If not, Ward basically said that Ennis is a gym fighter and that the mistakes he makes against lesser opposition will come back to haunt him in competitive fights. After listening to Ward on his podcast, I feel like he takes cheap shots at people in very subtle ways. Sort of like his fighting style. I know in the past you have praised Ward but knowing you, I know you’ve noticed how Ward gets down. I also wanted to know who Johnny Ortiz is. Is he Boots’ manager? He came out with a public response to Ward’s comments about Boots, so I’m assuming he’s part of Boots’ management team. What are your thoughts on all things related?
Bread’s response: I did hear Andre Ward’s comments about Boots and I also heard Roy Jones’ response to those comments. I agree more with Jones than I do Ward, but I don’t want to debate something that will be proven over time. Andre Ward has a right to his opinion; time will tell if he’s right or wrong.
I just happened to run across Ward and Jones’ conversation about Boots… So, you would have to be more specific about these “cheap shots” that you claim Ward takes. I have not heard Ward speak on Boots before his recent comments…
I don’t know everyone who is part of Boots Ennis’ management team. And I didn’t hear a response to what Ward said. So I can’t speak on something I didn’t hear.
What do you think happened to Erickson Lubin? Was it a bad strategy? Was it switching trainers three times in his last three fights? Did he stay at 154 for too long? He seems to have too much talent for him to lose this badly. What is it with fighters who look the part, but can’t get over the hump?
Bread’s response: Often, when something goes wrong in a career, it’s more than one thing. So, it could be a combination of things you named. But I will tell you what I’ve seen of Lubin. Lubin appears to be a fighter who walks around heavy in-between fights but doesn’t rehydrate well for his fights. I say that because often times a fighter’s face looks sunken in at the weigh-in but it looks filled out once the fighter gets in the ring. When I looked at Lubin’s face, it seemed as though he didn’t rehydrate all the way. I say that, because he still had bags under his eyes and his face still looked sunken in, in the dressing room right before the fight. So rehydrating could POSSIBLY be an issue.
I don’t know if Lubin stayed at 154 too long. But it could be a possibility. Fighters do grow stale at a weight.
The changing of the trainers is interesting. Sometimes there is a need to change trainers. But often fighters switch trainers too much. I can’t say which is true in this case. But what I can say is Lubin had his best career win with Kevin Cunningham who I think is an excellent trainer, then they separated. I don’t know what happened, but something had to happen because fighters don’t usually separate from their trainers after their best career win…
Lubin does look the part. He also had an excellent career; he just didn’t break through as a world champion. But I think Lubin is one of those fighters whose parts alone are superior to his sum total. Fighters like Carl Froch and Tim Bradley are the opposite. Their sum total is greater than their parts separated. Respectfully to Lubin, every fighter makes mistakes. But Lubin doesn’t have or hasn’t shown the ability to overcome his mistakes vs his three best opponents. That’s pretty much his career in a nutshell.
In light of Ortiz’s big KO victory, who would you say are the 10 best punchers in boxing? I love your lists bro and I’m curious to see if you would include Ortiz.
Bread’s response: Off the top of my head, I will try to come up with 10. But before I do, let me say when you say the 10 best punchers, I will name the guys who I think are not just the hardest punchers but the best punchers, meaning guys who can land their money shots the most often.
In no order: Monster Inoue; Tank Davis; Terence Crawford; Boots Ennis,;Vergil Ortiz; Junto Nakatani; Arthur Beterbiev; Moses Itauma; Bam Rodriguez; Yoenli Hernandez.
First let me say this, I’m a Vergil Ortiz fan. I think he sparks Boots. But Vergil’s manager Rick Mirigian is a jerk. I’m old school and I lost respect for Canelo for ducking Benavidez. Now Mirigian is demanding $10m to fight Boots. And talking up an Errol Spence fight for Vergil, when Boots is the one who got in the ring and challenged Vergil. What’s going on, Bread? I know you favor Boots as I do over Ortiz, but this marinating of fights is too frustrating for me. I’m about to give up on boxing at this point.
Bread’s response: Listen to me closely. More than one thing can be true at the same time. Rick Mirigian is doing his job. He’s Ortiz’s manager. It’s his job to do what’s best for his client. His job is to get Vergil the best fights while maximizing his earning potential. It’s the business of boxing.
Mirigian didn’t make it this far in boxing to not recognize talent. He has to know how dangerous of a fight Boots Ennis is. So, if he can get ‘other’ fights that will pay his client a similar amount, with what he perceives as a lesser risk, then he’s going to do that. So in this case it’s obvious that Mirigian feels that a 35-year-old Errol Spence, coming off more than a two-year layoff after his first career loss, is a better option than a 28-year-old Boots Ennis, who’s active and in the middle of his prime. Spence and Ortiz are both from the Dallas area, so it's a big Texas fight.
Take your feelings out of it. Stop being emotional. And become numb to the business of boxing in this era. This is not the era to expect elite fighters to face each other in their 20s.
Now on the flip side, here is what you can do. Not support Vergil anymore. Don’t pay to go to his fights. Don’t buy his PPVs. As a paying fan, you don’t have to accept that. As a paying fan you have a say. And if enough fans exercise their rights, the algorithms will show it. But no need to get emotional and call Mirigian names. He’s doing what he thinks is best for his fighter. And it’s obvious he’s exploring other options at this current moment.
I just heard on the Ring podcast that Max Kellerman said that some people are saying that Jaron Ennis vs Vergil Ortiz should be for the Ring title. Some people is you, Bread. I follow all of the big influencers on twitter and you’re the one who said that this week. They should have just had you on the show, instead of stealing your quote and using it as material. Shady McCoy responded by saying that Ennis vs Ortiz couldn’t be for the Ring title because Fundora has a claim. Can you state your case as to why Ennis vs Ortiz should be for the Ring title?
Bread’s response: Interesting question. I didn’t hear Max Kellerman or Shady McCoy speak on this, but I will try to answer as best as I can. I did say that I wished Ennis vs Ortiz would be for the Ring title. But in all honesty, I was more or less venting. If Shady McCoy said their fight can’t be for the Ring title right now, he’s actually correct.
The Ring has certain policies in place to crown a Ring champion and we can’t change those policies to our subjective preference. Boots is simply not ranked high enough by the Ring to fight Ortiz at this current moment and it be for the vacant Ring title. The top two contenders are Ortiz and Fundora. The top two contenders fighting are one of the ways to crown a vacant Ring championship. There are other ways too but it’s basically the top two available contenders fighting.
Again, in actuality, Shady McCoy was correct. And I’m never going to try to make a case for something that is not correct. Boots is ranked #7 by the Ring right now. He’s not high enough. To be transparent, when I said they should be fighting for the Ring belt, I was just openly venting and suggesting that Ennis vs Ortiz was too big of a fight to be a non-title fight. I was in no way attacking the Ring’s championship policy. I believe in the Ring championship policy and rankings more than I do any other ranking in boxing.
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