Hey Bread,
James Toney had this savvy little set-up where he would throw a right hand, stepping into the southpaw stance unnoticed and then throwing a left hook from the opposite stance. Twice it worked spectacularly as he knocked Michael Nunn out with this shot and also caught Jason Robinson with the same move over a decade later. Sneaky, sneaky Lights Out! Do you have any other examples that pop into your mind that are similar?
Brent from Canada
Bread’s response: Yes, Toney was nice with it. I love the move you’re talking about. Toney also had two more signature moves you didn’t mention. He would tap fighters upstairs with his left hook and when they would bring their hands up to where he tapped them at, he would shoot a nice hook to the liver. He would also sit and wait on a right hand, roll the incoming right hand and shoot a short right hand back. Let’s see who else.
Manny Pacquiao has two moves that he kills guys with. He throws a straight left hand to the body, then he gazelles a right jab to the head. He dropped Keith Thurman with it. Manny also slips a jab to the outside and at the same exact time, he shoots a straight left hand. He kills everyone with that shot.
Floyd Mayweather leans forward, entices his opponents to throw a jab because he appears closer. Then he rocks back and shoots a counter right hand (pull counter). Great move.
If you watch a great fighter closely. You will see that most have subtle signature moves. I picked Floyd and Manny because they were the best of the era that just passed and lots of fighters tried to copy their style and moves.
Hi Bread,
Thank you for the mailbag. I’m a long time reader, but it’s my first time to write in.What do you think are Oscar De La Hoya's three best career wins, and why? Which weight was he at his absolute peak/apex and where will he be remembered best historically?
Thank you,
Sam
Bread’s response: Oscar has so many excellent wins. He was a Hall of Famer by the time he was 24 in my opinion. But I think his three best career wins were Ike Quartey, Fernando Vargas and his first win over Julio Cesar Chavez. On the night that Oscar beat Chavez in their first fight, he was as good as any 140lber in history. And that includes everybody.
Sup Bread! Why do you believe that a victory over O’Shaquie Foster would place Cool Boy Steph straight in the hall of fame while Devin Haney still needs to continue building his résumé to reach it?
Bread’s response: You must be trying to start some nonsense. You’re comparing Stephen Fulton and Devin Haney as if I made the comparison between the two when I NEVER did. You must have seen my (X) account when I said to Devin keep it going and you’re going to the Hall of Fame. Then you saw me say in a SEPARATE post that if Stephen Fulton beats O’Shaquie Foster, he’s going to be the first fighter in Philly history to win three division titles, and he’s a Hall of Famer. So you came up with a comparison in your mind, to make it seem as if I’m saying Fulton is over Haney. Stop the nonsense. Men don’t do stuff like that.
I have never compared Haney and Fulton. I said what I said to Devin because that’s what I said. I was just encouraging the young man. He may be a Hall of Famer right now. I wouldn’t argue with anyone who said he was. As for Fulton I was just showing support to a local fighter that I’ve known for many years. I hope both Devin and Scooter make the Hall of Fame. I wasn’t comparing their careers and trying to put one over the other. Stop trying to be divisive.
I didn’t understand your comparison of Devin Haney to Dmitry Bivol. Bivol scores more knockouts than Haney. He doesn’t hold and he doesn’t run. You’re butt-hurt because Haney got clocked by Ryan Garcia and the film still exists. Haney is a hugger and a runner and he’s nothing like Bivol.
Bread’s response: This is an ignorant comment but I will oblige. I felt like Devin Haney vs Brian Norman was a 50-50 fight going in. The people who were picking Norman claimed that Haney couldn’t take a punch and he didn’t defend the left hook well and Norman was considered the biggest puncher in the division and his best punch was a left hook. So Haney outboxes Norman, hurts him with a left hook, drops him and defends Norman’s hook well throughout the fight. Then in the aftermath of the win, instead of giving Haney props for winning his third division title, I read and hear Haney get more criticism than Norman who actually lost the fight.
I heard Haney was running. Haney was clinching. Haney didn’t do anything in the second half of the fight. I was confused because this was coming from people who I saw pick Norman. Instead of giving Haney his props, I heard more things like, he didn’t go for the kill, he didn’t score a KO. I thought the criticism was misguided and just wrong. So I said what I said and I stand on it.
Haney has a 45 per cent KO ratio; Bivol has a 50 per ce t KO ratio. Bivol has scored one KO since 2018. Haney has not scored a KO since 2019. I picked Bivol because I wanted to illustrate how a fighter can be an elite pound for pound fighter and not be a KO artist. I’ve watched Haney throughout his career and I think his clinching gets overblown. He did clinch against Norman but Norman started lunging in and Haney defended some of the lunges with a clinch. I didn’t find it too egregious. I also saw Haney hurt Norman with some inside body shots off of the clinch and some whipping right hands to Norman’s left ear in those same clinches. I never called the performance a masterpiece. I never said it was a perfect fight. I never said he looked like Floyd Mayweather vs Diego Corrales. But it was a very good performance vs the best fighter in the division and Haney won clean and clear. If anyone was to get criticism it should’ve been the fighter who lost, not the one who won. And for the record by the way I don’t think Brian Norman Jnr deserves criticism but he surely deserves more than Haney. However Norman did his best and your best is all you can give.
But I will go deeper. I’ve seen fighters like William Scull. I’ve seen fighters like John Ruiz. I don’t put Haney in that category which is where some seem to want him. I’m not saying Haney is the most exciting fighter in the world. I’m not saying people have to love his style, but to get loads of criticism after one of your best career wins after you win a clean decision is just off-base in my opinion.
Narratives and agendas are pushed and oftentimes people repeat things without research. I have heard Pernell Whitaker is a boring runner. I know better. But imagine if you’re someone who was born in the 1990’s and you didn’t grow up watching Pernell Whitaker. You grew up reading about him. You can get brainwashed. Watch Pernell Whitaker at any stage of his career. He was a mean dude. He hit to the body. He threw a great jab. Yes he used his legs but oftentimes he stood in front of his opponents daring them to throw punches so he could counter them. Yes Whitaker had a couple of fights where the action wasn’t much, for example his fight with Anthony Jones. But for the most part, Whitaker boxed guys’ ears off and he let his hands go.
Recently I’ve heard the same thing about Shakur Stevenson. Stevenson moved a lot in two of his fights. Other than that, he sort of stands in front of you, dares you to punch and he counters with a quick half of a step back and he fires at whatever opening he sees. Stevenson doesn’t clinch often at all. He just doesn’t allow himself to get into fire fights for the exception of his last fight. But those that want to criticize him will point out the De Los Santos fight and highlight that one fight, like he fights all of his fights like that and it's not true.
Same thing with Haney. Haney didn’t engage much in the Ramirez fight. Other than that, Haney fights a sound boxing fight. You can’t expect fighters who are boxers by nature and aren’t big punchers to just sit and trade the entire fight, but I think you know that. I think you and the rest of the super critics want to see them get knocked out and that’s why you keep criticizing them. Shakur tried to appease his critics and stood and traded with Williams Zepeda. If Shakur would’ve been knocked out, you would laugh at him and call him stupid and chinny. I see right through that specific criticism. And for the record, I have no issue with Dmitry Bivol. I think he’s a first ballot Hall of Famer and one of the best light heavyweights ever. He’s the consummate boxer and he proved that you don’t need to be a serial killer to beat a serial killer. But Bivol does not catch anywhere near the heat that Stevenson or Haney catches, and they all fight with a similar purpose. Not so much the same style but a similar purpose.
And I know where you’re going with this so let me say it out loud: I don’t think Shakur or Devin are better than Bivol just yet. Right now I rank Bivol slightly over them, so there’s that. And you’re trying to make it a black thing. OK, let’s talk about that. I didn’t put Bivol in the pound for pound list. I didn’t give him a KO percentage of 50%. I just picked an elite fighter on the pound for pound list whose primary objective is to OUTBOX his opponents. I saw that Devin Haney just re-entered the pound for pound list. And I saw that Shakur Stevenson is also in the top 10. And I observed that Stevenson and Haney get way more criticism than Bivol. So if you want to make it a race thing go ahead. But these are the facts.
Oh wait, I have some more since you wanted to bother me. I hear and read about Boots Ennis not having defense and taking too many punches. Ennis is a serial killer. And he rarely if ever clinches, yet he’s always getting criticized for his supposed lack of defense. It’s highly unlikely that one can have an authentic criticism of Haney’s lack of action and have a problem with Boots’ all-action style at the same… If you told me that you just don’t like Haney, I honestly can respect that. There are actually fighters I don’t care for. But I don’t let anyone know it with criticism because I criticize from an objective lens. But yes there are certain fighters I like more than others for sure. I just don’t agree with the agenda-based criticism.
Breadman, good morning,
I’m a long-time reader of the mailbag but this is my first time writing in. I wanted to know your pick for Lamont Roach against Pitbull Cruz. I also wanted to know what is your pick for the Foster vs Fulton ,and Mosley vs Ramos fights. Love the mailbag, but just got tired of reading the comments from the haters and the racists who try to disguise their racism.
Thanks
Bread’s response: Thanks for the support. Don’t let the haters keep you away, the algorithms keep my mailbag going. I like Roach by decision. I feel like Cruz’s steam has lessened a bit over the last few years. However I hope the scorecards are fair because Texas likes aggressive fighters and Roach will be the boxer in this fight. But if all is even in terms of perception of the fight, I like Roach to win 116-112ish.
I like Stephen Fulton to win by decision. I think Fulton thinks a little too quick for Foster. I believe Fulton is too good at scoring points, and he’s a little too agile for Foster. Another 116-112 type of scorecard.
Mosley and Ramos is closer than people think. Mosley is tough and scrappy and rough. Ramos is the more polished fighter but polish doesn’t always win fights. Mosley can make this fight ugly and hard to score. Right now I say Ramos wins a decision but keep an eye out for an upset or draw in this one.
How important is the fight with Janibek Alimkhanuly to defining how Erislandy Lara’s career will be remembered? I have rooted for Lara for a long time. I think in an alternate universe where Lara’s the “A-side”, he would be an undefeated all-time-great. I’m worried Alimkhanuly is going to brutalize Lara and history will eventually forget him. What do you think?
Thank you!
Bread’s response: It would’ve been very important. If Lara would’ve beaten Janibek then he would have a valid case for being in the Hall of Fame. But unfortunately Janibek is yet another fighter who tested positive for PEDs. The news came out yesterday. Hopefully Janibek gets stripped and suspended.
As for Lara, he has three draws and three razor close losses. If those 6 fights go his way, then yes he’s an ATG. But here is the thing. The ATGs figure out a way to make at least 50 per cent of those fights more decisive. I watched every close draw and close loss on Lara’s record. Lara was fortunate to get a draw vs Carlos Molina. Lara was robbed in a loss to Paul Williams. Lara was unfortunate to get a technical draw vs Vanes Martirosyan, but he avenged that outcome. Lara’s loss to Canelo was very close but I didn’t think it was a robbery. I was there live and I felt Lara was showing too much discomfort from the body shots and cut to get a decision against a star like Canelo. Lara was dropped by Jarett Hurd in the last round of a razor close fight. I don’t have an issue with Hurd winning that fight. I thought Lara had a slight edge over Brian Castano in their draw.
My point is that Lara is a hall of fame-level talent. But in these fights he never really separated himself from his opponent with the exception of the Williams fight which was an outright robbery. But before we feel too bad for Lara, let’s give his manager Luis DeCubas Jnr props. Lara has been relevant for over a decade and he’s considered a boring Cuban fighter. He’s either in championship fights or high stakes fights. He’s been either a champion or an interim champion for over a decade. He’s made millions. He’s literally the longest standing relevant Cuban fighter ever. So while he’s caught some tough breaks in the scorecards. He’s gotten some great breaks on the business side. So it evens out at the end of the day.
For the record Lara is one big win from being a hall of famer in my opinion. Let’s see who he can fight over the next year or so…
I loved your analysis of Teofimo Lopez vs Shakur Stevenson on X, referencing basketball scoring. Hopefully Max Kellerman doesn’t steal your quote like he’s done in the past. I see it exactly as you do. Here is my question: Why do you think Teofimo Lopez is so inconsistent? Is it a style thing or mental thing?
Bread’s response: I had to look back at my X account and see what I said about Lopez vs Stevenson. I’m assuming you’re talking about my points per game average quote where Shakur is more consistent and he scores about the same thing every night, whereas Teofimo’s big nights are bigger but his bad nights are much worse than Shakur’s.
Um…..I don’t know exactly why Teofimo is inconsistent. But I do know his inconsistencies come against the SAME styles. When Lopez has to track a fighter down and is forced to come forward, those are the nights where he hasn’t looked like a world beater. So it may be a mental thing. It may be a stylistic thing. I see it when he’s challenged with being the hunter instead of being the hunted. It’s why I think he can compete with Shakur if he can make Shakur be the hunter.
Can you please explain how Conor Benn is the number one contender for the WBC belt at welterweight when he hasn’t fought at the weight since 2022? Is this a case of an elite fighter moving to a weight class and the sanctioning body acknowledges it by ranking him number one? Or is it just a straight corrupt move by the WBC?
Bread’s response: I cannot answer you because I don’t know the criterion that they used to rank Benn. I suggest you should write the WBC and ask them. Thanks for the question. I wish I could give you a better answer but I don’t want to make something up just for the sake of answering a question.
I know Terence Crawford is your boi but he’s as delusional as they come. In his recent social media tirade he’s coming at Oscar de la Hoya’s legacy. Oscar’s resume kills Crawford’s. Who would you pick head to head and who has the better resume? Crawford is also saying he’s the best fighter ever. Do you believe you could stick Crawford in the 70s, 80s, 90s or 2000s and he goes undefeated and wins titles from lightweight to super middleweight? Come on Bread, I hope you aren’t drinking the Crawford Kool-Aide!
Bread’s response: I can see what you’re trying to do but you’re not going to like my answer. First off, boy is spelled BOY not B-O-I.
Terence Crawford is an all-time great fighter. I don’t care what anyone says. I know what an all-time great is and he’s one. My main reasoning for viewing him as an all-time great is he fought through the system of boxing and not only prospered but remained undefeated. I know you want to highlight his resume but I don’t think that’s his fault. He fought through whatever they put him through and came out on top.
Crawford has a right to think he’s the greatest fighter ever. He’s been a pro for almost 20 years and he’s never lost a fight through five weight classes. As long as he doesn’t disrespect the greats I have no issue with Crawford believing in himself. The fighters who try to highlight the failures of past fighters they’re being compared to are the ones who I have issues with. I’ve never seen Crawford do that.
Oscar vs Bud: I believe both are ATG. But I think Bud beats Oscar head to head. Bud is just the more adjustable fighter. Bud becomes whatever he has to be to win a fight. Oscar becomes what he is in a fight and that is the difference in the two for me.
As for resumes, I think even Bud knows that Oscar’s resume is superior to his. That’s no indictment on Bud’s greatness. Oscar’s resume is on the same level as Ali’s, Holyfield’s, Leonard’s and Duran’s. It’s literally one of the best 10 resumes of the last 50 years. Oscar fought a prime Mosley, Quartey, Trinidad, Mayweather, Pacquiao and Hopkins. He also fought HOF greats who were slightly past their best in Whitaker, Camacho and Chavez. And if you add excellent fighters like an undefeated Genaro Hernandez, Arturo Gatti, Jesse James Leija, Fernando Vargas, Oba Carr and Miguel Angel Gonzales, you have one of the best resumes in history. But let me add context. Bud has not been the A side in his career. Oscar was the A side for his entire career. So while I applaud Oscar for taking heavy smoke, Bud doesn’t have the luxury until now to fight whoever he wants, whereas Oscar had it for his entire career.
Do I believe if Bud were in the 70s, 80, 90 and 2000s he would be undefeated through 135-168? I don’t think it’s a fair question. Here is why. I don’t believe anyone in history could do it. Let me explain…It’s not the individual match ups. It’s the wear and tear of fighting an extreme level of fighter on a regular basis that wears a fighter out. So let’s say Bud is in the 90s. The best lightweight is Pernell Whitaker, the best junior welterweight is Julio Cesar Chavez, the best welterweight is Tito Trinidad, the best junior middleweight is Terry Norris, the best Middleweight is Bernard Hopkins and the best super middleweight is Roy Jones. No fighter in history is going through that lineup and not take a loss.
Individually I can see a night where Bud can win each fight except the Roy Jones fight. But boxing is more than the man in front of you. Having to go through that lineup is just insane. So that’s not just something that Bud would have a tough time doing, every lightweight in history would have a tough time moving up through what you’re asking them to.
Let me add this… There is no fighter in history who has fought three or more ATG in their primes who has remained undefeated that I can remember. Just think about all of the undefeated fighters in history and look at their resumes and tell me who fought three or more ATGs in their primes and they remained undefeated. It’s extremely difficult to do. The special fighters win, way more than they lose. But all of them that I can remember have had tough nights when they lined up ATG after ATG.
I don’t believe you got the answer you were looking for but nevertheless you got the answer that I decided to give.
Hey Mr Edwards,
What do you think about a fight between Emiliano Vargas and Keyshawn Davis? Who would win? I think that would be a great fight because they would be evenly matched; they are close in age and have approximately the same amount of fights, and Keyshawn is moving up to Emiliano's weight class of 140 lbs. I also think it would be a relatively easy fight to make, because they are both promoted by Top Rank/Bob Arum and Bob Arum has had a habit of making in-house matchups.
John
Sacramento, California
Bread’s response: I think your matchmaking is premature. Keyshawn Davis has already been a world champion. He’s also further along in his development. I’m not sure exactly how old they are but I suspect Keyshawn is a few years older. There is no way Team Vargas would take that fight right now. I’m a person who believes in taking tough in your 20s, in your physical prime. But I admit that this fight would be premature for Vargas. Let’s see what the next year brings…
I just saw that Elijah Garcia’s fight was cancelled because his opponent may have been on PEDs. Nothing is confirmed but my issue is your guy Kyrone Davis beat him and Garcia still gets treated better. I’m from the Delaware area and Kyrone is the best fighter we have had in this area in a long time. PBC has mistreated him for the longest and whenever he upsets their A-side, they put him in even tougher just to drop his stock. It has to be intentional. How do you as Kyrone’s trainer overcome this with him?
Bread’s response: I definitely feel slighted but this is not a sport where you can feel sorry for yourself. I tell every fighter that I have ever trained to never have a pity party. It’s part of the game. Garcia is Mexican, he has a high KO% and he’s about eight years younger than Kyrone. So maybe they feel he has more upside and is more marketable. I don’t agree if that’s the case but that’s how the game goes.
But here is how you get past it. Don’t worry about what anyone is doing for anybody else. Concern yourself with the things you can control. Train your butt off, lock in and win. That’s the remedy. I know this has nothing to do with Terence Crawford but it’s why Crawford is an ATG in my opinion. Things like this have happened to Crawford countless times in his career and he still prospered. I’m not comparing Kyrone Davis to Terence Crawford but I am illustrating why Crawford is special. If Kyrone wants to change the narrative, he knows what he has to do. But knowing is not enough. He has to do it.
What do you make of Terence Crawford’s comments towards the WBC? Do fighters really have to pay 3% of their purse to the sanctioning bodies? Do the sanctioning bodies take it out of their purses or is it something fighters are responsible for?
Bread’s response: Let me start out by saying I don’t know 100 per cent of the details so I won’t get into who’s right or wrong.
So… I only saw a small segment of Crawford’s comments. From what I gathered there was a disagreement on the amount of money Crawford was supposed to pay the WBC for their sanctioning fees in his fight vs Canelo Alvarez. I didn’t hear the amount he was supposed to pay. The WBC didn’t say it and Crawford didn’t say it. But the devil is in the detail…two things stand out to me.
One is, Crawford said that the other three sanctioning bodies were ok with the amount he was supposed to pay them. And secondly the other sanctioning bodies have not said a word about Crawford not paying the sanctioning fees…So I assume everything was all good with the WBA, WBO and IBF. I don’t know what amount of payment the other sanctioning bodies agreed to. But here is what I believe should be a standard practice. In fights where multiple belts are on the line, all of the sanctioning bodies should receive the SAME amount. If one sanctioning body can demand and get more money from a fighter in the SAME fight that other belts are on the line in also, in essence that sanctioning body becomes more powerful and more valued. Without knowing more details, I can’t comment any further. But I will say that I RESPECT Terence Crawford for standing up for himself.
The sanctioning bodies generally ask for three per cent sanctioning fees but those fees can be negotiated and oftentimes the number is less than three per cent. From my personal experience the sanctioning fees are deducted from the fight purse on the night of the fight and the amount is agreed upon BEFORE the fight. But that’s just MY personal experience with MY fighters. I can’t speak for anyone else or at what happened in this specific case.
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