The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling topics such as Joe Joyce losing to Zhilei Zhang, Devin Haney vs. Shakur Stevenson, Gervonta Davis vs. Ryan Garcia, Anthony Joshua, and more.

Hope all is well Bread Man and congratulations on all the past, current and future success. Man Zhang came out on fire and busted Joe Joyce up. Woooh man that left hand was dialed in and was like a heat seeking bomb. I got visions of Corey Sanders popping Wlad Klitschko on the line. Zhang obviously isn’t as quick but I could see him being a problem to most in the first 7-8 rounds. Does Hgorvic stock go up based on surviving and getting that disputed win?  How would Sanders had faired against Joshua, Fury, Wilder, Usyk and Ruiz?

Devin Haney I don’t want to come off biased, I’m a big Fan but I feel like people are getting carried away with the great new flavor at 135 , Shakur is Excellent and Frank Martin is also emerging but I feel like people are down playing Haney’s ability to compartmentalize the fight he’s a winner and he times Speed and slows down a fight . I got him beat everyone at 135 but I feel like he’ll move up soon. I see a lot of BHop in Haney I know a lot of people point to Floyd and there is inspiration there. So obviously big fight coming up honestly I can’t call it and I’m thinking 50/50 between Tank Vs Ryan. But I say it’s a KO in under 10

Geno from the Bay

Bread’s Response: Listen man. I’m not a know it all. I did not see Zhang beating Joyce but I want to admit I had not seen a full fight of Zhang. He can fight. He does have that Corrie Sanders way about him. Quicker and more explosive than he looks. Heavy laser like left hand. Big time win. I thought Joyce was a real threat to the thrones. He still could be but obviously this is a tough loss at his age, without ever getting a title shot. Zhang is a serious player now. I also want to see Joyce come back but remember. Where other fighters broke mentally because Joyce doesn’t stop chopping away, now they will have more hope to get past those rough spots that he creates. Joyce’s career just got 20% harder, because opponents will have 20% more confidence.

I like Devin Haney a lot. He may have the best jab in boxing. At this point with about 30 career fights, we just need to see him vs the best. Fighting Loma is a step in the right direction. I’m not disagreeing with anything you said about the Bhop or Floyd comparison. But I just want to see Devin against a few more guys so we can have a larger body of work to assess. I don’t believe Tank vs Ryan is 50/50. Tank is the favorite for a good reason. More like 60/40 or 63/35 but Ryan is live.

I was so excited for Juggernaut vs Big Bang. After rd 1 I told my big bro it would end with dr stoppage. Joyce’s eye was closing after 2 minutes. Z had the speed, accuracy , power that was impressive. I’m a big JJ fan so I expected different results. In Zhang’s last fight,  I saw him slow down, though  landed best punches, and he   won the rounds he won more clearly. I can see how he may have lost vs hrgovic even if I don’t agree. (That’s a nice way to say that was terrible scoring) i can’t wait to hear your thoughts on Zhang/JJ fight so toss that in this mailbag if u have time. I’d love to hear about boxer mentality when they go through this experience like JJ did. What happens when a fighter sees the chink in their own armor? How do you as a trainer use this to level up your boxer and grow vs having the boxer lose their confidence. I’m guessing a lot of people think this about Joshua since the Ruiz fight. If you don’t mind could you compare vs Caleb plant? That dude has been a favorite of mine for a minute. I’m asking this respectfully because he got ko’d for his first time, and not much later takes on a beast like Benevidez. He showed up and though it didn’t go his way, he didn’t show any lingering doubt in himself even after the canelo ko.  Thanks for the insight always

Bread’s Response: Me and Caleb spent a lot of time together since last August. After the 3 weeks of sparring I saw him get his mojo. Everyone takes a loss different but he’s a resilient kid. He was able to watch the Canelo fight during film study and it didn’t bother him. Caleb is stronger mentally than he’s given credit for. He went all the way there with Benavidez and he took a fight he didn’t have to take and he came to WIN! He was also hurt and fatigued and refused to ALLOW himself to be stopped. Sometimes a fighter gets kod with a kill shot. Other times they get hurt and they lose their will and they allow themselves to be stopped. Caleb was stubborn, not only didn’t he allow himself to be stopped but he kept trying to win which made it an excellent fight. Because he went the distance and won his share of rounds. I think he earned his respect so it won’t be any lingering affects. He’s a gun, plus we talk about everything. He’s good from my point of view. 

Unfortunately AJ has lost his mojo. I honestly think AJ needs a brutal ko. Success breeds confidence. He needs to see someone on their back because of one of his big punches. As Richie Plant would say, it’s simple but it ain’t easy.

It’s not a biggie for a fighter to see a chink in their armor. It’s only a biggie if they lose confidence in themselves because of it. No fighter is perfect. They just need a quality to get by their flaw or tendency. Ali supposedly didn’t have fundamental defense. People currently love to pick him apart for some reason. But here is the funny thing. Ali had a tungsten chin, the biggest heart in history, the ability to fight while tired and a clutch gene. “They” forget to tell that part about Ali. 

For all of the things people say Caleb can’t do, he knows what he’s good at. He also knows he stood up to a killer and won at least 5 rounds. It’s all about perspective. Joshua needs to be able to rely on something to overcome his flaws. I’m pulling for him. The glass has to be half full if you’re going to get past this.

Hi man, I got to say I Love your mail bag.. it's the one thing I look forward too on Saturdays, anyway. Straight to the point. We always see the training camps, press conferences and all the glamour on fight night. Can you enlighten us what happens after? How does a fighter recoup, feel, function weeks after being in the ring for over half an hour? trading punches? Do they get Pain killers, specific instructions on how to heal?. I've heard of boxers not being able to use their hands for days after a grueling fight, heard of Pissing blood for weeks, feeling sore for months.. So if I guess my question is, after fight night happens, win or lose, how does the following Weeks transpires for a boxer? How bad are the injuries that we don't see in the ring but they boxers have to deal with after championship fight??

Take care Bread!!

Jorge -Florida. 

Bread’s Response: A common issue is lactic acid build up, sore hands and feet. I tell fighters to go to the hyperbaric chamber, get a recovery massage and ice down for a week. But I honestly can’t tell if they all listen because you don’t see them as much directly after a fight. Specific injuries should be tended to immediately. But what I mentioned are the usual. Emotionally you’re on a high. I am and I’m just a trainer. It takes a few days to get yourself together. But you want to recover as fast as possible so you can get back in the gym doing little things to keep your fitness up.

I believe Ryan Garcia has put himself into a position that no one in boxing history has ever faced. I can’t think of an example of a youngster, who’s never fought for a world title, being in the biggest boxing event of the year. I was hoping you could show me an example I missed, or agree that Garcia is doing something we haven’t seen before by taking this fight.

Thank you as always!

Bread’s Response: The only match up that I can think of is Holmes vs Cooney. People are saying Arguello vs Pryor, Oscar vs Whitaker and Chavez vs Taylor. But in all of those fights both sides were established P4P level fighters/champions. In this match up Tank is a superstar and excellent fighter but he’s not as accomplished as he could be at 28 and 10 years as a pro. But he’s so much further along than Garcia. Garcia is basically a talented prospect crossing over to contender status. 

It still bothers me that Garcia turned down a tune up fight to get sharper. It also bothers me that he chose NOT to fight Devin Haney after winning a mandatory. I like Garcia but I can’t help what my gut tells me. Again, this fight reminds me of Holmes vs Cooney. Cooney was a much better fighter than he is remembered to be. But because he chose to fight Holmes who was the WBC champion. And waited a year as a developing prospect for the big moment. And didn’t go after the WBA belt in which he would’ve been the favorite to win. And then after losing to Holmes he fought big closed circuit fights and not developmental fights, I don’t think Cooney reached his full potential. 

I think Cooney would’ve defeated Mike Weaver, Greg Page, John Tate, Gerry Coetzee among other WBA champions who held the title during Cooney’s time. But for whatever reason Cooney went after the BIG money vs the best champion in Holmes. They did a great job of promoting the fight. Cooney made a Brink’s truck full of money. But something about the movement of Cooney always told me that his people weren’t truly confident in him. And that’s why they never risked him against other top guys. Imagine if Cooney was the undefeated WBA champion and Holmes was the undefeated WBC champion. The fight was already the biggest ever in 1982. It would’ve been even bigger. But Cooney sat out from the summer of 1981 to the summer of 1982 waiting on the Super Bowl in Holmes. He got the money but he never won a world title. 

And he won’t get the credit he deserves of being an excellent fighter because in my opinion too early in his development, they went the money route, instead of the “let’s get better route.” I don’t think we will ever know how good Cooney could’ve been because of this. I sense the same thing will happen to Garcia if he doesn’t win because once you make this type of money, it’s hard to step back and develop for short change. 

Hi Bread, Is it finally time to start talking about Haney vs. Shakur? I’ve been holding back for a couple of years since the infamous sparring footage came out, however since that fight may be next, can you break down that matchup? I know they sparred multiple times over the years and they were still relatively green when the footage came, out, but though it is an unpopular take, I think the fight looks a lot like Mayweather Vs Judah. Shakur is a great fighter, who is precise in his punch placement, sharp with his defense, and his confidence is sky high right now. That being said, I see a fighter who rushed his way through 3 weight classes, putting a lot of weight on his frame to do so, has a tendency to pose and admire his own work for too long while he’s sitting in the pocket, and has character issues that no one seems to want to address. Devin on the other hand, is the naturally bigger of the two fighters, has displayed more versatility thus far, and on paper has a little bit more pop.

I also believe that while Shakur has the faster hands in a potential matchup, Devin has the quicker punch release as you always talk about. In the sparring footage (which should be considered in its proper context of course), Shakur was indeed getting the better of Devin early, however, the further they got into the sparring and Devin began walking Shakur down, the more Shakur reverted to full on retreat mode. Over the course of 12 rounds, I see Shakur doing well in the first 3-4 rounds, before getting walked down, out hustled, and beat to the punch. While Haney seems to get nothing but hate, and both fighters are elite in my opinion, one fighter has all the natural advantages, the better overall character, and has shown an ability to win in more different ways. If the fight gets made, I see it 116-112 Haney. What are your thoughts?

-Alex

Bread’s Response: Interesting take. I did see the sparring and I thought it was high class work. I did see Devin trying to press Shakur. But as you said they were young. I don’t know how they would fight each other now. I don’t know if Shakur is faster than Devin. Devin may have the fastest jab in boxing. I think Shakur has a more varied attack with multiple punches but fastest who's the fastest punch for fastest punch….I don’t know…

I think Shakur has maybe the fastest mind in boxing as far as processing. He seems to be a THOUGHT ahead of everyone he fights. That will be what I want to see if Devin can overcome. Shakur’s processing. I think that’s why we saw Devin press Shakur when they sparred because laying back and boxing Shakur was even tough for Devin at that point. But that was many years ago. 

I don’t know if I agree that Shakur rushed through 3 divisions. I think he knew his days at 126 were numbered and he wanted to win a title there. So he did and immediately moved up. Now 130lbs was perplexing to me. I was honestly surprised he came in over weight. I really surprised was because I heard he trains so hard and he did move up from 126lbs. But maybe he outgrew the division. It happens.

But he’s at 135lbs now. He’s new to the division so I don’t see him rushing anything. If he moves up to 140lbs this year then I will agree with you. But I see him at 135lbs for at least 2 years. I don’t think either Devin or Shakur were physically mature when they sparred. So although there are some things we can take from the sparring, I wouldn’t put too much stock into at this point. Hopefully we don’t have to wonder about the fight this time next year , because it happened already.

Good day Breadman, I hope this meets you well... Did you see Tim Tszyu's kicks? Tells me he wanted to do nothing but rumble. Great tactic from him in the match, yea? But he shouldn't try the same approach with Charlo. I'm telling you he gets rocked and loses as a result of the KDs. Why do I say so? Cos of Twin Charlo's hybrid hook and penchant for well timed uppercuts like we saw against the Argentine. I feel like Tony Yoka's biggest issue is inactivity and his refusal to relocate considering he's retained Virg's services. Look at where he is and compare it to his contemporaries and it becomes clear where the issue is. To me it's a lack of dedication to his craft. I remember Lewis saying he delayed his marriage for about a decade because he needed to focus everything in achieving a stellar career. I feel Yoka should totally go the route of the eastern Europeans by leaving everything behind and rejuvenating his career as he has all he needs to do that. Am I wrong to think in this line? I was a bit disappointed by AJs performance until I took little bit of time to watch the first few rounds of his recent comeback fight and my assessment is that Derrick James is on to something if he can help Joshua lose his demons. I believe in time(maybe after two more get back fights) AJ will fight more relaxed and smoother. Do you see this as a possibility? 

Bread’s Response: Anthony Joshua may want to stick with Derrick James. Win, Lose or Draw they can figure it out together. Changing trainers at this level fight after fight when you have confidence issues won’t get him the results he’s looking for.

I feel like Tony Yoka took too long to develop. Usually the Heavyweight Gold Medalist is ready to fight for a title by the time next Olympic class turns pro. So Floyd Patterson was a 1952 Gold Medalist. By 1956 he was champion. Ali was the 1960 Gold Medalist. By 1964 he was champion. Joe Frazier was the 1964 Gold Medalist. By 1967 he was champion. George Foreman was the 1968 Gold Medalist. By early 1973 he was champion. Leon Spinks was the 1976 Gold Medalist. By 1978 he was champion. Tyrell Biggs was never a champion but he won the Gold in 1984. He was challenging Mike Tyson by 1987. Lennox Lewis was the 1988 Gold Medalist. He won the title in 1993. For that matter Riddick Bowe was the Silver Medalist in 1988 and he was champion by 1992.

Tony Yoka won a Gold Medal in 2016. We are now in 2023 and Yoka is only 11-2. Virgil Hunter in my opinion is a great trainer. He can get the job done. But Yoka seems to have issues beyond who his trainer is. I would never suggest a fighter should relocate because I don’t know his family structure, personally I wouldn’t move away from my children for a billion dollars. But I would suggest removing all distractions in order to get the most out of his ability. It’s pretty obvious without knowing details that Yoka has a lot going on. Hopefully Yoka and Hunter can get a big shot and Yoka puts it all together.

Tim Tzsyu impressed me vs Tony Harrison. He was much better than he was vs Terrell Gausha. I don’t know if the travel to America affected Tszyu. Or was it simply a nerve thing. But whatever the case he showed up vs Tony. I respect that. Obviously Jermell Charlo would be the favorite vs Tszyu. Especially here in America. Jermell has a clutch gene and he’s developed a 2 fisted attack as you stated. His left hook is much improved. But Tszyu is younger and improving and this is a real fight at this point. I’m looking forward to it.

I wasn't comparing Stephen Fulton with Boots Ennis. I was comparing the perception each receives from Philly boxing fans and pundits. No sane boxing fan compares a jr. featherweight to a huge welterweight. My point was that Fulton is an accomplished unified champion who runs from no smoke, as evidenced by the fact that he could have very easily pursued a lucrative rematch with Figueroa at 126, but instead stuck around at 122 one more fight to tangle with arguably the #2 P4P fighter on the planet. Meanwhile, Mr. Ennis and his father make goofy YouTube videos claiming everyone in the division is running from them. If that was the case, why did Boots go the murky IBF route rather than the Crawford fight, where he was #2 in line with the WBO and next up because Ortiz Jr., the #1 has made it abundantly clear he wants no parts of Bud? Actions speak louder than words, and for such a "feared" fighter, Ennis moves pretty funny style. I get the distinct impression he's waiting for Spence to vacate all of his belts so that he can swoop in and fight for a vacant title against a Karen-type opponent and look spectacular.

Instead of addressing these facts, you responded in a very emotional, immature and arrogant manner in the last mailbag. Why? Because what I allege rings true, doesn't gibe with your narrative on Ennis and is being voiced by more and more fans by the month. If you don't believe me, just read some of the comments under any article about Boots. I like the kid as a fighter, but he had 31 fights and the best win on his resume is Custio Clayton. Insulting me and throwing your typical emotional temper tantrum/rant won't change that fact. Bottom line: Stephen Fulton deserves far more acclaim than he receives. Boots Ennis deserves less based on quality of resume and career management. And no, I'm not a troll. I'm in my late 50s and have literally been following boxing longer than you have been alive. Literally. Peace.

Carl in Queens, NY

Bread’s Response: You took my comment as arrogant. And that’s ok because you're entitled to your opinion.. Nevertheless you took it wrong. I wasn't being arrogant, I was being honest.

You were, comparing Ennis and Fulton. You may try to disguise with other words but that’s exactly what you were doing. And what I was doing was saying let them be in their own lanes. You want to know why Fulton doesn’t have the push or support that Ennis does because Fulton has fought better competition and done more. Am I correct? 

And I explained to you why and I told you that it was no need for the comparison but you didn’t like my answer. So let me state it again, and I will try to be more clear. Ennis is at 147lbs. He’s a ko artist. He has a flashy style. Welterweight has two of the best fighters on the planet currently in the division. Welterweight is also the money division in boxing besides heavyweight. So a kid like Ennis who looks the part from a popular urban city will captivate people because of his potential and the eye ball test. 

Fulton on the other hand is not a ko artist. He’s an all around technician who usually goes the distance in a smaller weight class where the fighters aren’t as popular. So therefore all around fighters don’t get the same push as ko artist. It doesn’t mean one is better than the other. But think about how all around fighters are marketed and how ko punchers are.

Larry Holmes didn’t get the push Mike Tyson and George Foreman did. Bernard Hopkins didn’t get the push Felix Trinidad did. It’s just how boxing works. 

How long you have been watching boxing has nothing to do with you being misinformed. If you aren’t on the inside to see how these deals work then you just don’t know. And pulling rank on your age won’t get you informed.

Ennis is already the interim champion of the IBF. How do you know if he could’ve kept that position had he chose to be the WBO mandatory? How do you know he wouldn’t have lost that belt or positioning status? People with no belts say belts don’t matter but what they don’t know that in BOLD writing in a fighter’s contract, you get paid more once you get a belt. And just because a fighter becomes the mandatory doesn’t mean he gets a title shot. There is a lot of manipulation on the business side of boxing. Neither Spence or Crawford has defended vs a mandatory in a long time. So what makes you think Ennis would’ve got a shot right away?

You’re basically saying that Ennis is ducking smoke which I don’t agree with. I think the business side of boxing is screwing him up. But I don’t think he’s ducking anyone. I believe he wants a title shot now but the business is holding him back and he’s not sure which direction to go in because doors keep getting closed in his face with the big fights. 

I casually told you that Fulton has different management. You obviously didn’t take the hint. So let me say it loud and clear. Fulton is connected to get huge opportunities. He’s older. And while I love them both as fighters, because Ennis scores more kos, and seems more violent, fighters are a little more willing to fight Fulton than Ennis. 

The All Around fighters gets his just due later in their careers, where as the offensive dynamos get theirs earlier. Why people in Philly rock harder with Ennis….I don’t know. That can be a neighborhood thing. That can be a personality thing. That can be many factors. I rock with them both and I don’t like the comparisons because younger people sometimes don’t take the comparisons the right way and they allow it to divide and conquer them. I have seen it with teammates in team sports. I’ve seen it with siblings who play the same sports. I’ve seen it with fighters. Ennis and Fulton are so far apart in weight they will never fight, so personally I don’t like the comparisons. So I prefer to appreciate them in their own lanes instead of wondering why one gets more love than the other, when the other is more accomplished. Again, I got love for BOTH. I hope that answer works for you, because I’m not answering it again.

Hello, Breadman. Three quick questions, if I may. 1. I just finished watching the Rocky series with my 13-year old son. For those of us who have never been to Philadelphia, how accurate is the portrayal of your city and the Philadelphia boxing scene in these movies? 2. Have you ever run up the steps with your kids like Rocky did in the movies? 3. Will you be going to the theater to watch the new George Foreman movie? I'm excited about this film and I will be supporting the movie makers and this content with my pocketbook. Cheers. 

Bread’s Response: Fun fact when they were filming Rocky II on the Ben Franklin Parkway I was about 3yrs old and I ran with the crowd in the scene when he ran up on the steps of the Art Museum.

I love Rocky’s 1 through 4 and all 3 Creeds. I wasn’t a fan of Rocky 5 or Rocky Balboa. So 7 out of 9 of the movies I can watch every time they come on. That’s not bad. I think the portrayal of the city is accurate enough. It’s fictional so it’s easy to nitpick. But it’s accurate enough especially if you factor in these movies were made over a 40 year time span. So things change somewhat.

I’ve ran up the Art Museum steps. I’ve done workouts on them. I’ve trained fighters on them. And I’ve taken my kids down there to walk around. It’s a beautiful landmark that goes way beyond those steps.

What's up Bread, I've been following you since the boxingtalk days and one thing that always stood out to me was your rock, paper, scissors theory. When I sat back and thought about it I realized that Gervonta Davis is all three. How difficult is it to beat a guy like that? If you try to brawl with him he can box you, if you try to box him he can bring the pressure and if you try to bring the pressure he can bomb you out. All with great power and athleticism. What type of guy do you think it would take to deal with him? Also I've been studying Devin Haney lately and to be honest to me the hype does not match the product. The biggest puncher he faced was a past it Linares and he got rocked in that fight which happens in boxing but what I didn't like was how he behaved after taking that shot. He pretty much resorted to holding the remainder of the bout. Also I don't see a polished inside game from him. Someone like Boots is very poised on the inside and seems to welcome you to punch at him so he can slip or roll and counter where as Haney gets a bit frantic on the inside and resorts to clinching as his safety net when things get hot on the inside. Haney is a very good boxer but I just don't see special. What do you think?  One more thing, you did a great job with Plant and I thought that was the best version of him that I have seen so kudos you and him. You for teaching the information and him for receiving it. Peace!!

Bread’s Response: When I think about who can beat a certain fighter, I think about what that specific fighter can do well. For example Isaac Cruz did well vs Tank. He doesn’t fight anything like Ryan Garcia. So they wouldn’t fight Tank alike but that doesn’t mean that both can’t fight him well. Specifically Tank is fighting Garcia next. I think Garcia has to fight smart, not get greedy, use his jab and length. Don’t over commit and minimize exchanges. Obviously Cruz would get low, apply pressure and make Tank uncomfortable. So it depends on what fighter we are talking about.

Hello Breadman ,                            

I have two questions . Both are controversial . The first is PED use . Another fighter caught with a Testosterone boosting PED . Should there just be no testing . It seems the testing is not effective because the penalty is not severe enough. And the top fighters are not going to be banned . So just allow the PED , to level the playing field . Then there is no need for any testing . I think there is just to much corruption to get everyone on the same page.                            

My next question is a little personal . You have kids that are athletes . As they grow and get older how do you deal with them competing against athletes that use PED . The PED use in this world is just out of control. Junior High and High School players are using this stuff .                                                                                      

Thank You                                                                                          

J.B.

Bread’s Response: There should always be testing in sports. The issue is no one really cares unless an A side fighter gets duped. The issue is the penalty doesn’t match the infraction. The cheaters aren’t really getting penalized. The fighters stay quiet, sit out a year and everything is all good. It’s a joke!

Make the penalty harsh. 3 years and money! And suspend team members who are involved and this nonsense will stop. As far as my kids, they’re going eat right, recover right, practice hard and pray. And it’s gonna be, what it’s gonna be! But I’m not cheating and going to the dark side because everyone else is.

Send questions to dabreadman25@hotmail.com