Daily Bread Mailbag: Roy Jones, Mayweather, Holyfield, More

By Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards

The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards discussing several topics, including Ring's position on Floyd Mayweather and Ray Leonard, Roy Jones Jr.'s run at light heavyweight, the career of Evander Holyfield and more.

Stop lying to the public.  You know that Ring Magazine is owned by Golden Boy.  Ray Leonard couldn't touch Floyd.  This is not about an older generation vs younger.  It simply what we can see.  We see that Floyd is undefeated and we know that Ray Leonard got several loses.  Mayweather swept through this era and fought more world champions than non-world champions.  He easily beat Pacquiao and at least 10 other Hall of Famers.  From a historical standpoint, you have been wrong about Mayweather several times, I have always picked the fights right.

Bread’s Response: Hey man how are you? I see you’re still an idiot. I wonder how it feels to swing on a man’s B&#@* so hard that you become defensive about him when he’s not being insulted. Let me try to figure out what offended you so bad.

I said Floyd fought his ass off at an early age facing Diego Corrales, Jose Luis Castillo, Jesus Chavez and Genaro Hernandez before he was 25. No I assume that wasn’t good enough for you. I said he’s a great fighter and fighters only try to follow an easier part of his blueprint late in his career but they don’t follow the part where he was fighting killers. No again!

Oh let me guess that Ray Leonard in my opinion is the best fighter of MY lifetime. Well idiot let me teach you the difference between a lie and a difference of opinion. Leonard being the best fighter of my lifetime is my subjective preference, which is my strong opinion. That can’t be a lie. Just like if you said Mayweather was the best fighter of your lifetime it can’t be a lie. It’s your opinion, you idiot. Especially since I have no idea how old you are when you started watching boxing.

Now what is a fact is the RING named Ray Leonard the Greatest Living Fighter. It doesn’t mean he is the Greatest Living Fighter but it’s a fact that he was named that by the RING. I’m still trying to figure out what I lied about in my last mailbag, idiot. I hope you’re still following.

You seem offended by the RING’s stance of Leonard being greater than Mayweather.  You bring up that Golden Boy owns the RING. Which is a fact. But you fail to mention that Oscar De La Hoya and Bernard Hopkins are owners of Golden Boy and neither of those two great fighters was named in the top 10 Greatest Living Fighters. Floyd Mayweather was. It’s ironic you suggest a bias when the owners of the RING were not included on the list……

So let me get this straight you’re upset with me because I said Ray Leonard is the best fighter of my lifetime which is no knock on Floyd. I assume I’m a little older than you, maybe, maybe not. But you aren’t upset that Roberto Duran, Pernell Whitaker, Evander Holyfield, Marvin Hagler and Julio Cesar Chavez Sr. were all voted over Floyd who came in at #7 on the list. I didn’t get one disrespectful email from a Bernard Hopkins, George Foreman or Roy Jones. All three of those great champions had strong cases to be on the list. But you title your email STOP HATING and you call me a liar..

The next time you insult me have your facts together IDIOT Man and let your man crush on Floyd go. I give him his props. He’s the best of this era just not of MY lifetime I was born in the 70s. You earned this roast.

Hey Breadman,

I've been a fan of your mailbags for many years. Your boxing insight is elite level.  I would like to also commend you on your work with JRock. Can't wait to see that strap around his waste.

I was just watching a replay of Holyfield vs Foreman and the Holyfied vs Bowe trilogy with my 17yr old son. I was commenting to him on how Holyfield was an all out warrior and always went out on his shield. Then this young buck goes and gets disrespectful and tells he didn't see Holyfield KO anyone in those fights. I know this was a pet peeve of some critics but he was always balls to the wall warrior. You can tell he was physically strong but they do make a point that he wasn't able to put some of these guys away. He did frustrate and drop Mike Tyson.  What was it about him that he couldn't put some of the guys to sleep?  Wad it punch technique? Or just its just harder to put away elite guys?  He was super muscular so I can see that can hold back some of that flexibility to extend your punches? 

Your insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Frank V from Hackensack, NJ

Bread’s Response: Smack your son in the back of the head for me. IT’s nothing worse than when a young fella is being schooled and instead of observing and listening he starts to nitpick and criticize.

Tell your son Holyfield was a great puncher in a P4P sense. But fighting those huge fighters who were also great and combine that Holyfield being on the other side of his prime led to a lack of kos later in his career. But that doesn’t mean he couldn’t punch. He ruined Bowe. Bowe never looked the same after the trilogy. Foreman said Holyfield was brutal to the body. I will add Holyfield kod Tyson, Moorer, Dokes, Douglas, Thomas, Stewart ,Cooper and Tillis. He dropped Bowe and iron chinned Mercer.

At the top level kos are hard to come by even for a heavyweight. But you can assess power by knockdowns, opponent’s change of styles and damage being done. Holyfield did plenty of that. One more thing in the fights you named Holyfield was stopped once by the perfect punch. Bowe and Foreman are looked at as huge punchers. Is your son questioning their power?

See how that works. Yes Holyfield is my favorite fighter of the 90’s and I don’t appreciate his greatness being disrespected. To fight that many killers, giving up that much size on your other side of 30 you have to be a SAVAGE. Stand up Real Deal!

I really wanted too get your thought of you seen these videos with claims that Pacman,Oscar,Maidana,Castillo, beat Floyd Mayweather please take time to watch if you haven't I really need your thought on this... ThXx... Artorias Boxing On YouTube. Please get back to me. Stay bless !!!

Bread’s Response: Yes I have seen the videos…And here is the issue. The judges are not privy to video editing. They are watching the fight in live speed under pressure and a set angle. I’m not making excuses for the judges but that’s a fact. It’s also a fact that fights are scored on Defense, Ring Generalship, Effective Aggressiveness and most importantly Clean Punching. Not who landed the most punches although that is a good barometer…

There was also a video put out a few years ago debunking Joe Calzaghe’s victory over Bernard Hopkins…. The one thing the videos does NOT capture is the MOOD of the fight. It’s just as important as punches landed. Who is capturing the event and which fighter is imposing his style and will on the other? These things are very important when you assess who won a fight.

I think it’s interesting that the videos show a difference between the official punch stats and video punch stats. So it does show validity because it shows actual punches landed that weren’t originally counted. But I watched the video closely and the editors “missed” some of Mayweather’s landed shots. I don’t know if they did it on purpose to prove their point or it was a general oversight. Nevertheless they missed landed shots.

I’m very open and fairminded and here is my take. I thought Floyd beat Oscar and Manny. I thought he was the more effective fighter in more rounds than they were effective against him. Lot’s of the punches that were counted as landed against Floyd were partially blocked in a flurry set. So they didn’t look as effective. When Floyd lands a punch it’s usually a single clean head snapping shot that is easy to see.

However, I don’t buy into the line of thinking that either fight was easy. Floyd is just special and he has a way of making things look easy. But if you listen to his comments especially about Manny, you know he had a tough night on his hands. I thought Floyd won 116-112 and was visibly hurt twice. You can make a case for 117-111 or 115-113 Floyd but no case for Manny.

In the Oscar fight I thought Oscar did a great job of jabbing Floyd early. But Floyd pulled away like he did vs Manny. It could have been a draw if you bent over backwards for Oscar but Most likely 115-113 Floyd or 116-112 Floyd if you give Floyd an extra swing round.

Watching both of those fights AS they happened I thought Floyd won clean enough.

Now watching the Maidana 1 and Castillo 1 fights I was scared for the outcome. I bet Floyd in both fights and I wasn’t sure he won those fights. I didn’t need an edited video to show me that they made Floyd fight a fight, more suitable to them than him. That usually doesn’t happen with Floyd. But for some reason they dictated the mood of the fight more than he did and in the rematches Floyd tempered the violence down and dictated the mood like he normally does. There was a distinct contrast between the 1st and 2nd fights. However the mood of the 1st fights and the sentiment around ringside and at the fight parties were very close controversial fights that lots of people thought could go either way.

The videos are pretty cool to just play around with. But I wouldn’t put too much historical significance in them. Any great fighter can be nitpicked and made to look a certain way on an edited video.

Hi Breadman,

I   pray you and your family are doing well and all of the readers and their families are doing well. Congratulations on getting the title shot I hope J-Rock knocks the guy out. I read your mailbag where you said fighters pattern themselves after the most successful fighters. You jumped from Delahoya to Mayweather. You didn’t state how Mayweather patterned himself after Roy Jones Jr. Who HBO began to babysit for years . Mayweather watched him get paid for mismatch( the cop Ricky Frazier) after mismatch(that clown he fought where he put his hands behind his back). The 60-40 bullsh*t with Hopkins. He never fought the Brits Benn or Eubank and never gave Hopkins or Toney rematches. He didn’t fight Dariusz Michalczewski and took the path of least resistance. He fought John Ruiz who had a belt but clearly wasn’t the heavyweight champion and who also was beaten with ease by James Toney. I remember Roy always saying about Michael Nunn after he got knocked out by Toney that he couldn’t live without avenging a defeat but he sure didn’t appear to want to fight Glenn Johnson again .He lowered the bar and Mayweather great the baton and ran with it and now the standards are even lower because of it. I blame the boxing media for this because they should have been more critical of Jones and Fraud  but were too busy fawning over them and now we have supposedly the top guy Canyellow pulling the same crap.  The Pandora’s box is open now and so I have just accepted it. It is what it is and I just don’t watch as many fights now. My wife loves it  . God bless and take care.                                             
                                                      
Blood and Guts from Philly

Bread’s Response: Hey Blood and Guts. I jumped from De La Hoya to Mayweather because De La Hoya was still the biggest star while RJ was rolling. But we can discuss….

Historically I don’t give Roy Jones the flack that some do. Jones made some business moves but he made some tough fights that we wanted without being a PPV star until late in his career. Let’s look back.

He fought stiff competition on his rise to the title. Jones turned pro fighting 8 rounders and in his 2nd and 3rd pro fights he fought  9-2 and 16-1 opponents. He continued to fight guys with mostly winning records and in his first 20 fights he fought Jorge Vaca, Jorge Castro, undefeated Glenn Thomas and Glenn Wolfe. That’s pretty impressive for the middleweights because traditionally they have to be brought along slower because of the Bell Curve. More people that size.

Then in his 1st title try he has to fight a 28 year old killer in Bernard Hopkins. Now Hopkins may not be the Hopkins we remember beating Felix Trinidad 8 years later. But Hopkins was a big puncher in his 20s and he was in his “physical” prime. That’s Roy’s 1st title fight. He had to go through a legitimately great fighter to win it.

Then Jones smokes a usually durable Thomas Tate and moves to win his 2nd title vs a legitimately great top 2 p4p in James Toney. He takes a couple of money fights but agrees to fight a rugged Merqui Sosa at a catchweight. Sosa was just given the award for having the best chin in boxing. RJ destroyed him.

He goes for his 3rd title in 3rd division vs another HOF in Mike McCallum. McCallum was old but Jones can’t help who the champion was. McCallum was still super capable. Sort of like the 2012 version of Bhop..

Now before he moved up to lightheavyweight I would have liked to see him fight Nigel Benn who had just defeated his good friend Gerald McClellan. Jones claims he reached out Benn but never got a call back. I believe him. But I still would have liked to see him find a way to make that fight around 95ish-96ish. The other fight that gets lost in the sauce is the Steve Collins fight.

Collins reinvented himself at 168lbs after 3 tough decision losses at 160. Collins went on a 14 fight win streak to end his career and he beat both Chris Eubank and Nigel Benn twice during that run. There was talk of him and Jones fighting and I blame this one on RJ. That’s a fight that should have been made.

I also believe Jones avoided Michael Nunn at lightheavyweight. For some reason he didn’t want to fight Nunn but it sort of gets overlooked in this era. I think your criticism is a little misdirected though because you didn’t bring up Nunn as a duck. Nunn sort of disappeared during Jones’s peak years and the fight gets lost.... Something funny even happened with the WBC title that Nunn was the mandatory for. Nunn fought Graciano Rocchigiani for the title and Roy never lost it in the ring if you remember he avenged his DQ lost to Montel Griffin then all of a sudden the WBC sanctioned Rocchigiani vs Nunn. Then in Roy’s next fight he fought Lou Del Valle in a unification match with the WBC and WBA belts on the line. I still don’t know exactly what happened in that case. But it was bizarre. It looked like Roy let Rocchigiani eliminate Nunn for him.

Nevertheless Roy fought some stiff competition at lightheavyweight. All people bring up is the fight vs the NYPD officer. But no one talks about the clean unification sweep of the WBC, WBA and IBF titles. Montell Griffin was no joke either. He beat James Toney twice going into his fight with Jones. I don’t give Jones crap for not rematching Toney. Toney went on a career slide after he lost to Jones and he didn’t get his career together for about 7 or 8 years. Jones fought the man who beat Toney twice during that time. I also don’t give Jones crap for his 60/40 split proposal with Bhop. He won the 1st fight! If you’re being fair the fighter who won the 1st fight with both stars being equal should get the bigger split. Right…

Jones lightheavyweight resume was super solid and it was actually better than his super middleweight resume which is considered is prime weight. At 175 he beat Virgil Hill, Reggie Johnson, Eric Harding, Lou Del Valle, Mike McCallum, Antonio Tarver and Montel Griffin. Throw in few more solid guys and I think that run is under appreciated. He gets crap for not fighting Darius Michalczewski but I put that fight on Michaelczewski. Jones was the boss and he shouldn’t have been expected to go to Germany to make a 50/50 super fight. No other American star in history under those same circumstances would be expected to do that. And not one ever has under similar circumstances.

I also believe Roy Jones deserved his huge HBO contract. He didn’t fight killers everytime out but he fought enough of them to deserve what he got. The fights he should have made are outweighed by the fights that he did make.

The last quarter of the year looks solid. Who wins these fights and why? Also which ones do you think will and will not happen? Kovalev vs Ward, GGG vs Jacobs, Charlo vs Williams, Broner vs Burns, Cuellar vs Mares, Miura vs Salido, Lomachenko vs Walters and Joshua vs Klitschko?

Bread’s Response: Ward, GGG, Williams, Broner, Cuellar, Salido, Lomachenko and Joshua. Hopefully they all happen!

I don’t think GGG vs Jacobs will happen 2016. I’m assuming if it were to happen Jacobs would be in camp already and the public would know. Despite people saying GGG got exposed by Brook, he’s a Horror Movie. No fighter is going to take their time starting a camp facing him. If Jacobs has not started camp then let’s assume it won’t happen this year.

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