By Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards

The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards taking a look at several subjects - including Boxing vs. UFC, matching Sugar Ray Leonard against some of the greats, the lack of activity with top fighters in 2016, and more.

Hi Stephen,

The Olde Coot here. 

I really enjoyed your recent comments about Ray Leonard Vs. a number of current boxers and mostly agreed.  I am guessing that most of the current younger crop of boxing fans have either never seen Ray fight nor likely seen much video on him.  I was never that much of a fan of Ray's while he was fighting, mostly because I WAS a big fan of some of his most notable opponents such as Thomas Hearns, Roberto Duran and Marvin Hagler and also becuase he was (and still is) so damned good looking and... well, I'm a pretty homely guy myself.

Here are my comments on the hypothetical match ups that you opined on.

RL Vs. Mayweather       Agree that he'd stop Floyd but also in a 12 Rd. fight.  Knowing it was only 12 rounds,
                        Ray would be on the gas earlier.
RL Vs. Pacquiao         I'm going to be in trouble with my Filipino wife but I agree 100%.  Manny would force Ray to stop him,
                        probably KO  him.
RL Vs. Thurman          Wouldn't even be fair to make this fight, Ray would destroy him
RL Vs. Brook            Wouldn't even be fair to make this fight, Ray would destroy him
RL Vs. Canelo           I agree that Ray could win this by just boxing but I doubt that he would. He's tear Alvarez up.
RL Vs. GGG              They would test each other's chins.  Ray would win by decision or stoppage but as much as I like Golovkin,
                        Ray Leonard was a pure stone cold killer and he would find a way to win, one way or the other.

I still love reading your column and am always happy when it's time for a new one.  Best of luck with J Rock!

Best Regards,

Woody

Bread’s Response: I know lots of hardcores who were not fans of Ray Leonard until he retired. IF you look back on his resume it’s extremely impressive. Even his come up through the prospect stages he fought some serious fights.

I try to give the younger readers a chance to research….I give them a peak prime timeline. I tell them what years a fighter has peaked. Then they can go on boxrec and look at all of the fights  during the PEAK. After they log the info they can go on youtube and watch the old greats. It’s not difficult if you really want to know. And in Ray Leonard’s case they should know better. RING just named him the greatest LIVING fighter. I say he’s the best of my life time. And yes we agree on the hypothetical match ups.

Hey Bread - The UFC has one advantage over boxing and we both know what that is. Best fight the best, with rare exception. In boxing we now have a growing culture of avoidance, growing by means of other fighters and prominent figures within the sport allowing and sanctioning it. I went to downtown San Jose to see GGG massacre Brook, and the boxing heads know Canelo is ducking GGG. It's not even the ducking that is objectionable so much as it is the rationalizing of it through "business moves" and the full support of it by fans and handlers. So far they have both proven they can really hurt welterweights; not much more. Consensus in this ever fractured sport may never return! But Canelo IS a middleweight, GGG is THE middleweight champ and we want the fight.

thanks for listening,
Gabe/P-Dale

Bread’s Response: The UFC and boxing will never have the same module. So as boxing fans we shouldn’t compare. I do agree that more competitive fights are urged in the UFC but their structure is far from perfect.

However I do agree with you that “ducking” fights is being termed as “business moves”. For the record there is nothing wrong with a fighter making smart business moves. If he wants to live a good life after he retires he better make those moves. But I think overall it has taken on a life of it’s own recently.

I think the top level successful boxers of each era dictate the mood of the boxing world. Ali was the I will fight all comers guy of the 70’s and the boxing world took that mood. Ray Leonard who idolized Ali did the same thing in early 80s. Julio Cesar Chavez became boxing’s biggest star in the late 80s and early 90’s and the Mexican star was born. Oscar De La Hoya took this mood over and carried it well. As Oscar’s star burned out Floyd Mayweather took over. Mayweather a wonderful fighter is also a great businessman. So therefore you have fighters claiming they are making business decisions. The problem is none of them are as good as Mayweather, they didn’t fight their butt offs like Mayweather did early in his career. In other words they didn’t pay the cost to be the boss. A fighter wins one or two 50/50 fights these days against good competition and he thinks he can cherry pick his entire and career.

The problem is the enablement. They get rewarded for not fighting the most dangerous guy and when they see their peers getting the treatment, they say to themselves why should I run through a brick wall to make a million bucks when Joe Doe didn’t have to. Lots of these fighters need a reality check. They try to be like Mayweather but Mayweather was rumbling killers by the time he was 21 years old. Most of these guys are in 6 rounders at 21. What they don’t realize is Mayweather built up his skill level to a point where he could afford to do certain things. These kids are not developed products yet and they try to be businessmen. They only hurt themselves because better competition will get you better. Fighting too far under your skill level will make you a stale fighter. If you don’t believe me look how many of our champions in their 20’s who have not improved one bit because they stopped fighting real fights too early in their development.

Then look how Floyd challenged himself by fighting Genaro Hernandez then 2 months later Angel Manfredy. Then tough fights throughout his junior lightweight run culminating with a great performance vs Diego Corrales. His come up from 98-01 got him ready for the peak performance vs Corrales. These young fighters try to copy Floyd but they only copy the part that they think is easy. Try fighting Hernandez, Manfredy, Jesus Chavez, Corrales and Jose Luis Castillo all by the time you are 25 yrs old. Then start repeating the businessman spill. 

After a few more top spoiled guys get exposed and knocked out the mood will change again. Have faith my brother. Boxing will remain.

Salute Bread. I hope everything is going well. I listened to a couple of your interviews online, great stuff. I'd like to like you opinion on some things. Walters vs Lomachenko was announced. I think Lomachenko may have too much technical ability for Walters. I think Danny Garcia doesn't get enough credit for what he does in the ring. I thing he would have destroyed Andre Berto if that fight would have happened. But I am starting to think him and his team are a little too cautious at welterweight. What are your thoughts? Will we ever get to see the greatness of Rigondeaux??? Is it something on his behalf that is preventing him from being in more great fights besides bringing that calculated heat to his opponents. Good luck with J-Rock and the Charlo matchup. I think he will be a coming out party for J-Rock.

Osiris the Great.

Bread’s Response: I love the Loma vs Axe Man match up but I wish Walters was riding high like he was after he beat Donaire. He hasn’t lost yet but you just get the feeling he’s treading water. I remember Ike Quartey was in the same boat an era ago. Quartey was undefeated but he started treading water vs Oba Carr and Jose Luis Lopez. He went into his super fight with Oscar luke warm. He fought his ass off but he never regained his form. I hope Walters is not up the same road but I feel like he is. I think he puts up a great scrap but Loma wins a decision.

Danny is a tough case to assess. Let’s see if he fights Thurman, Spence or Porter next year…..I think he fights at least one of them .

Rigondeaux has been hurt by the politics of boxing and he has hurt himself. They only superstar of majority African decent that the Caribbean has ever produced is Felix Trinidad. And there has never been a super star Cuban professional fighter. So Rigondeaux’s chances of icon level are slim. But Rigondeaux could have become what Roman Gonzales is today with the right movement and push. Rigondeaux does not seem to align himself with the right people and he refuses to leave 122lbs. I don’t have a problem with him not wanting to leave his best weight but all of the money fights at 122 have left. Frampton, Santa Cruz, Mares, Quigg…..So that puts Rigo in a dilemma. I appreciate his greatness but unfortunately I think history won’t be so kind. He will most likely be a better than he was greater. He will do better in hypothetical head to head match ups than he will do in career accomplishments and greatness. 

What's up bread? It's been a while since I've written in, but I feel like 2016 has been a pretty disappointing year in boxing. I think the most obvious reason is that the top guys are avoiding each other. You've got Canelo fighting a chinny welterweight and an unknown, you've got Danny Garcia fighting a faded Guerrero and now possibly Molina? Charlo doesn't want it with J Rock, I could keep going. There are a few exceptions such as Thurman vs Porter and Kovalev vs Ward, however I think what's really lacking right now that people may overlook is not only the absence of quality, but also quantity. I feel like 10 years ago, the boxing schedule stayed pretty stacked. It was rare to have a Saturday night with no fights to watch; but lately, decent fights featuring recognizable names on TV are too few and far between. I think we boxing fans can all agree, 2016 has seemed a bit quiet, but have you ever really looked to see just how bad it is? Well I have...

To start, I decided to make a list of the first 60 boxers I could think of. I figured that's a good way to come up with recognizable names and not base this on rankings since there are higher ranked guys who nobody has ever heard of or who never (or rarely) fight on American television. Once I had listed 60 fighters, I began to look at their records over recent years and what I've found is that over the past few years, activity has slowed down a lot, but 2016 in particular has been the worst. I can recall when Mayweather was only fighting twice each year, but everyone else seemed to stay pretty busy... It unfortunately seems that now, fighting twice a year has become the norm for many of these boxers. We are now just a few days from October, so it's pretty safe to say that most of these fighters, if they don't already have something scheduled, won't see action until at least January. Here's my list of 60 pretty popular fighters, and you will notice that an astonishing amount of them have only had 1 fight in 2016, many haven't fought at all! Note that I am not even considering semi-retired fighters such as Marquez, Mosley, Mattysse, Tarver, Malignaggi, Haye, etc.

Out of the 60 fighters, less than 12% fight 3 times per year. They are:

Chocolatito
GGG
Jacobs: Had 3 in 2015, possibly 2016
Joshua
Kovalev
Verdejo
Ward: 3 in 2016 but only had 3 fights in 4 previous years

(Joshua is fairly new to the American audience. Verdejo hasn't really stepped up, but lack of meaningful fights not just for him but for the sport in general, is a whole other story which only makes this even worse. Also, how many of these names are recognizable to the casual fan? Not many, because they are almost all listed below.)

Now let's take a look at the other 88%, who in my opinion are way less active than they should be. Here is a list (also in alphabetical order) of fighters and how many fights they have had in recent years. If you take the time to read through and let these stats sink in, you can see just how inactive some of these guys have been, especially in 2016:

Algieri: 2 in 2015, 1 in 2016
Andrade: 2 in 2013, only 1 per year in 2014-2016
Arreola: 2 per year on avg, from 2012 on
Berto: 1 or 2 per year from 2009 on
Bradley: 1 or 2 per year from 2010 on
Broner: Active through 2015, only 1 in 2016
Brook: 2 per year from 2013 on
Canelo: 2 per year from 2012 on
Cunningham: 2 per year from 2013-2015, only 1 in 2016
Andre Dirrell: 1 in 2013, 3 in 2014, 1 in 2015, 1 in 2016
Anthony Dirrell: 1 or 2 per year from 2014 on
Jermell Charlo: 2 in 2015, only 1 in 2016
Jermall Charlo: Active through 2015, only 1 in 2016
Cotto: 1 or 2 per year from 2010-2015, zero in 2016
Crawford: 2 per year in 2015 and 2016
Dawson: 1 or 2 per year from 2008 on
DeGale: 2 in 2015, only 1 in 2016
Donaire: 2 per year in 2013, 2014 & 2016, 3 in 2015
Fury: 1 in 2013, 2 per year in 2014 & 2015, zero in 2016
Frampton: 2 per year from 2013 on
D Garcia: 2 per year from 2013-2015, only 1 in 2016
Gamboa: 1 or 2 per year since 2011, zero in 2016
Guerrero: 1 or 2 per year from 2011 on
Jack: 2 in 2015, only 1 in 2016
T Johnson: 2 in 2015, zero in 2016
Khan: 1 or 2 per year from 2012 on
Klitschko: 2 per year from 2013-2015, zero in 2016
Lara: 2 per year from 2013-2015 only 1 in 2016
Lemieux: 2 per year from 2014 on
Lomachenko: 2 per year in 2015 & 2016
Martirosyan: 1 or 2 per year from 2012 on
Mora: 1 or 2 per year from 2010 on
L Ortiz: 2 per year on avg, only 1 in 2016
Pacquiao: 1 or 2 per year from 2012 on
L Peterson: 2 per year from 2009-2015, zero in 2016
Porter: 2 per year in 2014 & 2015, only 1 in 2016
Povetkin: 2 per year from 2011-2015, zero in 2016
Provodnikov: 2 per year from 2012-2015, only 1 in 2016
Quillin: Mixed activity through 2015, zero in 2016
Rosado: 1 or 2 per year from 2014 on
Rigondeaux: 1 or 2 per year from 2013 on
Russell Jr: 1 in 2015, 1 in 2016
Santa Cruz: 3 in 2013 & 2015, but only 2 in 2014 & 2016
I Smith: 2 per year on average, from 2009 on
Spence: Active through 2015 but only 2 in 2016
Stevens: Zero in 2015, only 1 in 2016
Stevenson: 2 per year in 2014 & 2015, only 1 in 2016
Stiverne: 1 or 2 per year from 2010 on, zero in 2016
Thurman: 2 per year in 2014 & 2015, only 1 in 2016
J Vargas: 2 per year on avg, from 2013 on
J Williams: Active through 2015, only 1 in 2016
Walters: 1 in 2013, 2 per year in 2014-2015, zero in 2016
Wilder: 2 per year in 2014 & 2016, 3 in 2015

I would like to know what your thoughts are on this. Why are 90% of the fighters we watch on TV only fighting once or twice a year? Could it be too much posturing and avoiding other fighters? Could it be difficulty in negotiations due to promotional issues? Could it simply be that boxers are paid so much (in contrast to UFC fighters for example who seem to fight about 4x/year) that they don't feel the need to fight more than once or twice a year (or in 2016 not at all)? I can't answer this but what I can say is that I think this is really hurting the sport. Not only would boxers being more active give us greater quantity, but I believe that greater quality would naturally come along with it. Here's to hoping that 2017 will be much better!

B from NY
Thank you,

Bart Schiavo

Bread’s Response: Your email was long but because of your extensive research I owe you and answer. Great job.

The inactivity is a huge problem in my opinion. It’s not huge for the Mayweather’s and Pacquiao level fighters. But everyone underneath them it is. Especially for a guy who is building his rep and skill level.

I have repeated this several times to very important people. Sadly some think it’s ok for a fighter in their mid 20’s who wants to get better to fight twice a year…..

I think what makes things worse is that 50% of the fighters who are inactive like it that way. They want to fight once or twice a year so they can lose competition though moving weight classes and losses. Attrition. You have to really watch certain fighters. They really don’t care about being active because by being inactive they can give the appearance of being relevant longer. It’s an illusion!

But the other 50% want to fight and I feel bad for those kids. They really want to get in the ring and test themselves and get better. They call their promoters and management weekly for “dates”. A fighter fighting 3 times/year opposed to 2 or less is so significant in a fighter’s development and earning potential.

I think economics plays a part but not as big as some suggest. Oscar De La Hoya fought 5 times in 1997 and no one made more money than him! Five times would be unreasonable in this era but 3 times is more than reasonable in my opinion.

If you are on a 2 fight per year schedule and you or your opponent gets injured then zapped you’re off for possibly a year. You also have to fight a certain level of competition because you are too inactive to string together lower level showcases.

The best example of the difference between 2 and 3 fights/year is Deontay Wilder. He fought 3 times in 2015 and became a huge star.

The promoter who guarantees 3 fights per year for elite level fighters will change the landscape of boxing. That’s how important it is. Fighters are complaining and the powers that be need to take note. There is absolutely no reason for a young fighter to wait 6 or more months in between fights unless he’s in a bonafide super fight, injured or in contract litigation.

The cool thing about keeping the “real” fighters active is the “other” guys won’t care. They will be happy with fighting once or twice while they watch the “real” fighters beat each other up.

For the record the fighters I get the most emails about are GGG, Krusher, Ward, Chocalito, Joshua and Canelo. Besides Canelo all of those guys have fought 3 times per year this last year and Canelo would have if he didn’t get injured. #foodforthought

 Send Questions to dabreadman25@hotmail.com