By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling topics such as Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Conor McGregor, PED use in boxing, the career of Tommy Hearns, looking at Joe Calzaghe, top 10 greatest performances in big fights, and more.
I've been reading your mailbag regularly for quite a while and, as far as I can see, you seem to be not only an active boxing trainer and historian, who knows a lot about the game, but also a fair and unprejudiced analyst.
So I wanna ask you about Povetkin. Not that PED story, you wrote a lot about that stuff. But how good you think he really is or were? Is he a true top heavyweight or just a "home" fighter? Did he had a chance of upsetting Wilder if that fight happened? Does he have a chance to win a world title against today's top big guys?
Thanks again for your insight.
Konstantin
Bread’s Response: Thank you. This is a fair question. Sometimes the fans want me to speculate on PED use with fighters who haven’t tested positive. But in Povetkin’s case it’s easier because he has tested positive.
Russian athletes were banned from an Olympic competition not too long ago. There is a documentary called ICARUS that chronicles some serious PED use in all sports but specifically cycling. After researching facts and looking at Povetkin’s case specifically I can’t speak on how good he really is without speaking about PEDs.
People have addictive disorders to anything that makes them feel better. Think about it. Sometimes it can be superstition, sometimes it’s dopamine activation. But whatever the case think about it in laymon’s terms. You ever hangout with a woman who likes certain mind altering substances before sex. Whether it be alcohol or more… Do you have any buddies who know everything about male enhancement pills and they swear by them? This all could addictions to feeling enhanced.
Now imagine a world class athlete taking PEDs. Everytime I hear about an athlete getting caught, the first thought that comes to my mind is, is this the first time they got caught or the first time they did it. In Povetkin’s case do you think the only time he used were the times he got caught. In my opinion no!
I don’t view him as a top heavyweight. I view him as a cheater. I have no idea when he started using PEDs. But I do know the rumors of PED use have been going on about him for years. If we heard them , he heard him. For him to get caught right before he faced Wilder tells me something. It tells me he needs them and he likes the feeling. I applaud Wilder for being proactive in testing fighters.
Povetkin is one fighter that I don’t trust at all if there is no VADA testing. I never talked about it because I wasn’t asked and I didn’t want to speculate but his ko of Mike Perez just didn’t look right to me. Povetkin is a fighter who I can’t rate if there is no VADA. I don’t think he has a shot vs Wilder as long as they start testing him far out from the fight. I think Wilder knew too.
He has a chance to win a world title but it depends on he fights and if they have enough influence to test him. It’s really that simple. I don’t expect anymore Mike Perez ko performances under VADA testing. If any champion gives him a voluntary title shot without VADA testing it will tell me something about that champion. What it will tell me is they are most likely juicing also!
HI Breadman,
I pray you and your family are doing well. Tommy Hearns has never been out boxed and the guys who beat him just said screw it and made it a brawl. Barkly, Hagler and Leonard were willing to pay the price in pain it took to get to Hearns. Antonio Tarver clearly out boxed Roy Jones and intimidated him. The third fight between them Roy looked scared. The thing about Jones is that he can’t use the excuse of old age against Tarver or Johnson because they were his peers. Unlike when Leonard lost to Camacho and Ali lost to Holmes and Louis to Marciano. They lost more to Father Time than the actual opponent. Tarver , Jones and Glen Johnson were all about the same age. The weight issue if you want to use that as an excuse for the first fight with Tarver but not the 2nd and 3rd fights. He should have been acclimated to the weight by then. Going up in weight never seem to bother Bob Foster or Archie Moore who got their butts whipped at heavyweight but would come down in weight after losing at heavy and kick light heavyweights butts. I have never seen a great athlete as disrespected as Hitman Hearns. The guys who beat him with life and death to do so and paid a physical price. He destroys Duran and would beat him everyday of the week if they were at their best but yet Duran is rated higher by historians. Duran beat Barkley but Hearns thoroughly out boxed Benitez who beat Duran .Hearns outboxed an in his prime Virgil Hill when Hearns was past his prime. It makes absolutely no sense. People act like the butt whipping he put on Leonard in the rematch never happened. Does anybody in their right mind believe Whitaker or Mayweather would have out boxed Hearns?Neither one of them is a brawler so they both would be in for a long night. Whitaker did turn brawler against Hurtado but there is a big difference in eating punches from Hurtado as compared to Hearns. That is why I give Ray Leonard major props for beating Hearns the first time. For him to stop Hearns with one eye is one of the greatest feats in sports history. Love live the Hitman and I don’t mean Ricky Hatton.
God bless and take care,
Blood and Guts from Philly
Bread’s Response: I am not going to argue with you. Because you are correct. Tommy Hearns is severely underrated. I have probably been guilty of that in the past. If Hearns was from any other era after the 80s he would be top 10 P4P ever. As a whole we look at the results and not the actual fights. Hearns losing to Hagler and Leonard in his prime keep them rated over him. But they had to fight two of the greatest fights ever to beat him. If Hearns wins those two fights he’s on par with Robinson.
Hearns is a true weight jumper. Only two men in history have won titles at welterweight and light heavyweight. Only two men in history have won belts at junior middleweight and light heavyweight. Only two men in history have won belts at junior middleweight and super middleweight. Only 7 men in history have won titles at middleweight and light heavyweight. To top it off Hearns had a very solid run at cruiserweight to end his career.
Head to Head he rates really high in all weight classes from 147-168. Offensively he’s one of the finest fighters ever. He has heart, ambition and he will fight anyone. His only true big miss was Mike McCallum. The one knock I have on him is his IQ. There were times he should have boxed when he didn’t and it cost him. You could force Tommy into brawls and despite his physical prowess that’s his Achilles heel. You can make at case that he had a better career than Roy Jones and you can argue he would have beat Jones.
The one thing we will disagree on is him being rated over Duran. Despite him beating Duran head to head history remembers that as a case of physicality. Duran was 7 years older and just a smaller man. He also got caught cold early. But the time Duran fought Hearns he was about 80 fights into his career and he was hot and cold. But besides size Duran was probably a little bit better all around. Duran also went 15 rounds with Hagler and Hearns was blitzed in 3 despite making it a great fight. Duran also beat an in his prime Ray Leonard. Hearns didn’t. And if we are going to rate Hearns over Duran then we must rate Barkley over Hearns. Last thing I would have liked to see if the Duran that fought Leonard could have gotten to Hearns at 147 in 15 rounds. I don’t just assume that Duran couldn’t have. One of the things I noticed about Duran after Leonard 1 is he didn’t have the legs and energy to track down opponents anymore. All of his great performance after 1980 were against guys who came to him. He could never beat Tommy in that mode.
Nevertheless Hearns was truly special. And no I don’t imagine Whitaker or Mayweather being able to defeat him. For that matter the only welterweights since 1940 who stood a chance were Kid Gavilan, Caren Basilio, Felix Trinidad and Donald Curry. And they all wouldn’t beat him. But they would stand a chance. No other welterweights would have the physicality to defeat Hearns.
Hearns beat a HOF in Pipino Cuevas to win his 1st title. A HOF in Wilfredo Benitez to win his 2nd. He lost to a HOF in Hagler going after his 3rd. He didn’t fight at a catchweight vs Dennis Andries to win his 1st lightheavyweight title. He dropped back down to middleweight and fought a real contender in Juan Roldan for his 4th. James Kinchen was a solid fighter to defeat for his 5th title and the WBO supermiddleweight title. And Virgil Hill is a HOF who he defeated for his 6th world title and 2nd title at lightheavyweight. His resume and accomplishments are also among the best in history and he didn’t have gimme easy title pick ups. Stand up Hitman. I apologize for disrespecting your greatness.
Whatsup Bread,
I've been studying some old fights lately so I've got a few mythical matchups for you:
Roy Jones Jr vs. Ezzard Charles at 168 or 175
Khaosai Galaxy vs. Roman Gonzalez at 115
Sandy Saddler vs. Naseem Hamed at 126
Bread’s Response: Ezzard Charles. His jab, physical toughness and technical ability would be tough to deal with for Jones. I can’t get the Montell Griffin1 fight and Tarver 2 and 3 fights out of my mind. If you watch Charles vs Lloyd Marshall on youtube you would see what I mean.
Galaxy is not as skilled as Gonzalez but he’s probably too big and strong for the ex strawweight. A huge puncher like Galaxy is not the kind of guy you want to be giving up 15 lbs of natural muscle to, going forward and trying to walk him down.
Saddler would be just too much for Hamed. Bad, bad match up for Hamed. Saddler is too active, too strong, too technical inside and he had a tungsten chin. He would hurt Hamed severely.
Hey Bread
Love reading your mailbags, it's great to see a genuine non bias opinion from someone who really knows boxing.
Being from the UK I was a huge fan of Joe Calzaghe, how did you rate him and do you think he could of beaten Ward and won the super 6 if joe was still around and in his prime?
Also, what are the top 5 fights you would like to see get made in the next 12 months?
Thanks
Dan
Bread’s Response: I rate Joe Calzaghe extremely high. He’s one of the best 4 super middleweights ever along with Andre Ward, Roy Jones and James Toney. Calzaghe had it all. He had athleticism, mind quickness, fast hands and feet. He had a tough chin, great stamina and he had the ability to adjust. He could also fight off the front foot or back foot. No one and I repeat no one would have beat him easy. It’s almost impossible to outwork him and discourage him. My only knock on Calzaghe is he waited so long to come to the US. That’s his own fault…
I don’t know who would have won between Ward and Calzaghe. It’s very tough to call. I can actually see them having to fight 3 times to figure it out. Ward has a way of neutralizing offensive outburst and his body punching and physical strength are very underrated. But Calzaghe is a real monster. He let his hands go in rhythm at rapid fire and Ward would have to adjust to that. No one ever did. I would bet the distance if they fought and I could see lots of controversy. Calzaghe would have smoked everyone else in the Super 6 including Froch. Froch is a great fighter but Calazaghe would just be a step ahead of him all night.
In no particular order:
Wilder vs Joshua
Spence vs Thurman
Ward vs Stevenson
Inoue vs Gonzalez
Lomachenko vs Rigondeaux
Bread,
Black fighters in-general have been separated from their black heritage, period.
Black music, history, sports, black inventors/inventions,etc.
Our diets have changed also compared to more natural way of eating from days gone by.
Character is now found external to the individual, when it's really internal.
There's also information overload from the bombardment of input from social media, satellite/cable tv and other technology.
All of these things tend to influence people and not allow them to do self reflection.
I think Spence/Crawford is the next super fight, and at 147lbs Spence has the advantages.
Bread’s Response: I agree with you. I will add that technology and social media have destroyed the character of the young athlete. They are slaves to social media. Their cell phones are more addictive than crack cocaine. It gets them in more trouble than anything in their lives.
Particularly I watch fighters closely. When I see a fighter’s face buried in their cell phone at press conferences, in the gym or anywhere important where they should be paying attention to something else and not their phone it tell me something. It’s so bad now I see fighters wearing headphones in the gym and now I saw a kid at a local show wearing head phones walking to the ring. How can a fighter take instructions from their trainer with headphones on? While walking to the ring your trainer may notice something about the other fighter? How can he tell you with headphones on? Technology and Social Media are killing these young kid’s focus.
I believe Spence vs Crawford is a super fight. But I believe Spence vs Thurman will happen first. I think Spence and Crawford both have advantages over each other. I don’t think either has ALL of the advantages.
Hey Bread, been a big fan of the mailbag but this is my first e-mail. I appreciate the homework you put into it & sharing your insight with the fans.
What's your call on Loma-Rigo? I've got nothing but respect for what Rigo brings to the table, but I can't help feeling like he's up against a terrible stylistic foil, even if these guys were the same weight & age.
One of the things that's easy to overlook about Lomachenko is that he destroys his opponent's output. Here's the average punches per round his last opponents have thrown since he moved up:
Marriaga: 35
Marriaga's Normal Avg: 78
Sosa: 32
Sosa's Normal Avg: 61
Walters: 38
Walters' Normal Avg: 57
Martinez: 35
Martinez Normal Avg: 62
Now, Rigo's success was never based on high workrate (he averages just under 49/round), but I have a real tough time seeing him landing enough to win, particularly if Loma chokes off his workrate as he's been doing to his opposition lately. With a guy as skilled and savvy as Rigo, I hate to resort to using "puncher's chance", but if he can't knock Loma out, can he really score enough to win on the cards?
Cheers,
Earl
Bread’s Response: I love this fight. I think Loma is bigger and has more physicality. I think Rigo is longer and is the harder puncher for one shot. I think both have great defensive reflexes. I think Loma has the better chin.
Both guys will have stylistic adjustments to make. Fighters who fight Loma off the back foot are carried very fast. Fighters who press Rigo are ran into a devastating left hand and turned all night.
I think Rigo can score enough points the question is will he be given credit. Against Donaire he won but he didn’t get enough credit for the rounds he won. It’s a huge factor when we can assume Loma will throw more punches and is the clear A side. I think both guys have their work cut out for them. I don’t view this as a blow out for Loma. It’s difficult to blow a talent out like Rigo. He could be the most talented fighter in the history of boxing. Not the best but the most talented. Right now I have this fight 51/49 in Loma’s favor.
Give me your final prediction on Mayweather vs McGregor? Also I didn’t catch your take on the whole Paulie Malignaggi thing. What do you think happened in the sparring and who wins a fight between the two?
Bread’s Response: I think Mayweather wins. I assume he should stop McGregor. I think McGregor will land some shots and possibly win a round or two but once Floyd catches his rhythm I think he gets to him and he should be able to hurt him to the body. I the think mental stamina of being sharp in a boxing ring will play the biggest part. Look for McGregor to become mentally and physically fatigued. I assume Floyd can stop McGregor. For the boxing vs MMA debate I hope Floyd stops him. If this is a competitive decision MMA fans will uprise! I can’t deal with that.
I can’t judge 12 rounds of sparring on a 30 second clip. From what I saw McGregor landed a hard left hand and he was the fresher fighter. I don’t go crazy over stuff like this because if you know boxing you would know that some MMA fighters have boxing skills. You would also know that an aging fighter who is not in shape will not be so sharp in his first few sparring sessions. Paulie is retired and coming off of a loss. Fighters are human. That means, bad food, women and alcohol. He’s also a lot smaller than McGregor. I didn’t expect him to light McGregor up under those circumstances. I don’t know who would win if they fought. Let’s see how McGregor looks vs Mayweather first.
Can you name the top 10 greatest performances in big fights. Historical significance, the performance itself and level of competition? Me and a few buddies like sending in questions to you to settle debates. We bet that certain fighters will make your list. We need you to settle another one for you. Thanks in advance I can’t wait to catch you HBO.
Bread’s Response: You guys are going to town on these list. I try to do them off the top of my head... Ok I’m having a brain freeze but I will just flow.
1. Ali vs Foreman. This performance right here by Ali makes him the #1 heavyweight ever. The 70’s is the start of the era where historians think those heavyweights could have competed with the 6’4, 235+ giants. Foreman is considered the hardest puncher ever by most standards. He was also so good he was able to win a title 20 years after he lost to Ali.
Ali was considered past his prime and he was abig underdog because Foreman had outperformed him vs Frazier and Norton. Ali had lost his legs by 1974 and Foreman was the best heavyweight ever at cutting the ring off. Foreman was 40-0 with 37 kos and he was 25 years old. If Foreman wins that fight, there isn’t one heavyweight in the next 5 years who could have beaten him. Larry Holmes wouldn’t emerge until the late 70s. If Foreman would have beaten Holmes which I would have favored him to do there isn’t another great heavyweight until the emergence of Mike Tyson who didn’t want to face an old Foreman. Foreman could have conceivably ruled from the early 70’s until the mid 80’s or even early 90s when Bowe, Holyfield and Lewis emerged.
Ali kept Foreman from all of this with one of the most risky strategies in boxing history the rope a dope. In my opinion it’s the greatest victory in the history of boxing.
2. Duran vs Leonard1. Ray Leonard was a special fighter. He was bigger, 5 years younger and faster than Duran. Leonard was an all time great welterweight. Duran was a great lightweight but he had never seen anything like Leonard. Duran pulled out his bag of tricks, skills, and dirty boxing to pull off the upset. This victory was so deep it spent Duran’s physical prime. He fought over his head that night and he went into a 3 year slump after the fight. On that night Duran was Ray Robinson level good.
3. Joe Louis vs Max Schmelling2. Louis was kod bu Schmelling a couple of years before that. Not only was he kod but he was beaten up. It wasn’t a lucky punch it was a working strategy that beat Louis. It’s very difficult for a fighter to come back from being dominated. Louis not only came back but he destroyed Schmelling in 1 round. On top of that a World War was going on and both fighter represented opposite sides. Louis had to win this fight for America and for Black people because of alleged Aryan supremacy. He did it.
4. Marvin Hagler vs Thomas Hearns. I hate to put Hearns on this list losing a fight but that’s how the cookie crumbles he’s going to be on the list twice. Hearns was younger, longer, faster and a better boxer than Hagler. Hagler was a hard punching technician and attrition fighter. He had lots of kos but they were of the wear down type.
Against Hearns he gambles on himself and blitzes Hearns. If the strategy does not work he could have ran out of gas. Hagler had great stamina but no middleweight could have kept up that pace all night. Hagler shoots every bullet in his gun and get walks through every bomb Hearns could throw to ko him in 3 rounds. In my opinion it was the ultimate gamble and Hagler fought one of the few perfect fights in history.
5. Ray Leonard vs Thomas Hearns1. This is the fight for the best welterweight post Sugar Ray Robinson. The winner of this fight would also be the best fighter of the 80s which is boxing’s second best decade. Hearns is 32-0 with 30kos and looks unbeatable. Leonard is considered the boxer but what we saw that night was that he was indefatigable and he was a killer. Leonard started pressing Hearns in the 6th round and eventually walked him down and stopped him in the 14th behind on the cards. It’s still my favorite fight to watch. I love Ray Charles Leonard.
6. Henry Armstrong vs Barney Ross. At the time they fought Ross is considered one of the best fighters ever and he’s one of the top 2 or 3 welterweights ever. His record is also very good for the time. He has about 3 losses in close to 80 fights. Armstrong swarms him, beats him up and becomes the best fighter of the era in that one night. In fact if boxing stopped in 1940, Armstrong is the best fighter ever.
7. Joe Frazier vs Muhammad Ali1. Please don’t confuse the 2nd and 3rd fights with this one. In this fight Frazier wore green trunks and Ali wore red. This is the greatest pressure fighting performance ever from a heavyweight. This is another fight where the winner left it all in the ring. Frazier lost a big step after this fight. But on this night he was all over Ali. He was indefatigable, he was harp, he was strong and he would not be denied. Frazier is a handful for heavyweight on this night. This was his peak performance. Did I mention it was the biggest fight in history up until that point and Frazier came through in the clutch.
8. Bernard Hopkins vs Felix Trinidad. Hopkins needed this fight to cement his legacy. Trinidad was a huge favorite going in and if Trinidad beats Hopkins he challenges Roy Jones then mythically Sugar Ray Robinson. The fight is on the back drop of the 9-11 terrorist attacks. Hopkins not only wins but he fights a perfect fight. Literally a perfect fight. His jab is clicking. His right hand is money. Everytime Tito gets off, Hopkins answers with more. Hopkins is so locked in he walks backs to his corner not even breathing it seemed like. He takes Tito in deep waters and sticks his head under the ocean.
9. Willie Pep v Sandy Saddler 2. Pep needs this fight. Saddler had just stopped him and messed up his long win streak. This is the only fight out of the 4 that he won vs Saddler but even if he was slightly past it he couldn’t lose 4 straight times to Saddler. In this fight Pep twist turns, feints, jabs and stabs his way to a victory in one of the finest pure boxing performances ever caught on film. It’s the one fight why Pep is considered the best fighter ever at 126lbs.
10. Ray Robinson vs Gene Fulmer2. Gene Fulmer was catching Robinson at the right time. Fulmer is one of the more rugged fighters in history. He had enormous physical strength, an iron chin and a frenetic whipping style that the older Robinson found hard to handle. Robinson lost the 1st fight and wanted his old title back. Fulmer is whipping right hands and pressing Robinson again in the rematch. This time Robinson times Fulmer’s whipping shot and throws a left hook in between and clips him for the 10 count. The perfect punch, and even better set up. It was done against a HOF with an iron chin who had already beat him. Robinson had many great comebacks but Fulmer was the most difficult style for him to overcome at the time. Fulmer was also the only one who won the title again after Robinson defeated him in a rematch.
10B. Salvador Sanchez vs Wilfredo Gomez. Now that you got me going I couldn’t leave this fight off the list. Two in their prime great fighters. Two great latino fighters. Mexico vs Puerto Rico. this is the fight for the best small man of the 80s. If Gomez wins this fight he’s P4P numero uno. He was already a killer and great fighter in the 70’s and he had the best record in boxing up until that point. Sanchez puts on a peak level display that has rarely been seen. He counters the aggressive Gomez, he times him with a beautiful 1-2 consistently then he uses his eagerness against him and stops him in 8 rounds. It’s right up there with Leonard, Hagler and Duran as the best performance of the 80s.
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