Daily Bread Mailbag: Mayweather/IV, PEDs, More

By Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards

The Daily Bread Mailbag returns as Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards tackles questions on the Floyd Mayweather Jr. IV scandal, various picks for some of the most anticipated upcoming fights, thoughts on the Mayweather-Berto event, views on past boxers who wasted their talent and blew expectations, and more.

Hi Bread

First of all, I am very grateful for posting my comments in your mail bag, in my opinion it is an excellent source for boxing information and debate. I did not write in the aftermath of the Mac-Pac fight, mainly because I was disappointed with the results on that night like the majority of the boxing fans were disappointed with the judge’s decision. But I firmly believe that time is the most objective and loyal judge of all.

On that night I saw two things: the first a draw between the fighters, and the second the worst performance ever for both fighters. For me personally, Floyd was the worst fighter of the night and I have been patiently waiting for someone else to have seen what I saw.  For me it was virtually impossible that 4.4 million PPV viewers didn’t see the worst Compubox ever, and the main aggressor not getting the favor of the nods. Instead the favor of the nods went to the guy running around the ring like a scared chicken. It is impossible to not give the 2, 3,4,6,7 and 10 rounds to the Pacman. After analyzing and digesting this I get to the conclusion that the Pacman does not need a time machine. Instead, what we need, what every fan, especially boxing fans need, is a boxing system like in Basketball (FIBA or NBA), meaning a system less corrupted, that establishes the rules of the event (Medical Test, Gloves, bandages, etc.), with impartial referees that we can trust, judges who are not blind (of course!) or even more judges (how does 5 instead of 3 sound?), commentators who are objective, and a truly reliable compubox system (pleaseeeeeeeeeeee, is 2015!) But to be fair, we (the fans) are partially responsible for the fact that one fighter was the one that dictated all the terms for the fight and that we, everybody who wanted the fight to happen, gave in to all of his demands because as fans we never demanded for rules or an established system for an event of that magnitude. I felt identified with two videos that someone posted on youtube named “The real story behind paquiao vs Mayweather” and “Post May-Pac Investigation”; the best part was the showing of the sixth round of the Cotto vs May fight. In it Cotto cleanly and clearly connects 22 punches, but Compubox scores only 8 punches.

The Good Thing about time is that Floyd will finally get his first defeat, because his fight against Berto will be a fiasco. I predict that it will be his low PPV numbers since his fight against Judah. The arena is already not sold out, while GGG vs Lemieux and Cotto vs Canelo are already sold out. That’s why Floyd is not going to retire after that fiasco and he will welcome May-Pac 2. It is not hate, he is an Hall of Fame Fighter, but hey when I read that "TBE" did schooling on Pacman or Cotto, I thought: man, I’m not blind! By the way, Cotto will ko Canelo in the 11th round. Canelo is a competent fighter, but for me, Canelo will be a victim of one of the last really great fights of Miguel Cotto. I believe Miguel is more skillfull  and now he is under Freddy’s coaching. Also, Miguel has always been a great fighter, even in his defeats and Canelo is definitely not Margarito. Wow! If Cotto wins I think he will become one of the few fighters that get to be in the driver’s seat after losing his spot. A rematch with Floyd or a fight with GGG are both the best available PPV fights right now. Keep it On! Bread. 

Bread’s Response: Thanks for writing in. We will agree and disagree. First off I think Mayweather beat Pacquiao 116-112, which is 8 rounds to 4. The fight wasn’t a draw. What I don’t understand is why people are so critical of the fight. After watching Mayweather vs Berto I think we can conclude that Mayweather vs Pacquiao was contested on a higher level.

We will agree on punch stat statistics. They are not an exact science. A person is calculating these results. I do believe they are about 90% correct. Where we will also agree big time is the 5 judges. I have always believed it is more difficult to corrupt larger numbers of people….Jury vs Judge….. I think 5 judges at ringside is an excellent idea. I think that needs to be implemented as soon as possible.

I also believe types of gloves should be put in contracts and handed in to the commission weeks before the fight. The Mayweather vs Maidana controversy should never happen where one fighter dictates to another fighter what gloves he can wear at the 12th hour. That should be decided beforehand so all parties can accustomed to their agreed upon gloves.

Testing….I firmly believe all fighters ranked in the top 15 should be entered in a pool of random testing. Period. That way fighters can be tested randomly when they don’t have fights on the books. As long as fighters “only” get tested after a fight is announced, the window for PED use is too easy to manipulate.

Bread

Where to start lol!  Wonder if there will be a lawsuit against Floyd by Pacquiao and by fans?  This looks pretty bad. He's trying to clean up the sport yet he has fighters failing ped tests, he doesn't adhere to nsac rules because he thinks usada supersedes Nevada?  He takes an IV with vitamins and saline, supposedly. In doing so he fogs his post fight drug test. What does a guy who cuts 8-10lbs need an IV for?  Especially when he's in shape 365 and knows who he's fighting before everyone. He had months to drop 10lbs. I can do it in an eight hour day at work.

He calls PAC a sore loser but in reality he's a pretty shady "winner" in my opinion. After the fight I thought PAC was classless using the injury excuse. Then we start to hear about stuff that happened behind the scenes, and I can understand where PAC is coming from. The man wants a fair shake.

I think the commissions in states like Nevada and New York really need to be the ones paying vada\usada, not the promoters. I realize some states don't have the resources but those 2 states have to. I also think sanctioning bodies need to step up and make rules that eliminater fights and title fights need tested by vada. Usada is bought and paid for by oscar, Floyd, arum, ect...  I believe this is a paper work fix, shouldn't take much time or money. I also believe they need to lower the acceptable test levels by ha!f. 6:1 is way too high. When I'm on cycle I'm lower than that. Normal person is 1:1. When I'm on cycle I'm 3-5:1 depending on what I'm taking. Finally the band for ped use should be more stringent and categorized better. Meaning if you are an egregious offender your done. Panama Lewis type punishment. There's no difference in the crime. Marijuana should be taken off the list. There is no advantage to the offender.

I've paid a lot of money to showtime and hbo for boxing. They need to step up also. They need to putting out the best quality product and stand behind that. Instead they take a step aside and point fingers. They have more power than everyone else.

I don't think as a fan I am asking to much. Sure the people in power will lose some money with failed tests but the ufc always has fighters ready to step in. Boxing can insure their events by paying other fighters to train and be ready. How many guys ranked in the top 10 wouldn't take 50k to be ready?  This may not be applicable for every show, but it is for every show that matters.

Your thoughts?

DJ Kc

Bread’s Response: For the last 6 years I never accepted that Manny Pacquiao was a PED user. I always believed the man deserved a fair shake. I feel the same way about Floyd Mayweather. In my eyes we need to see more before we can conclude he is a ped user.

What I will say is that Manny caught a raw deal. If Manny was denied a legal shot to numb his arm and Floyd was allowed an IV of legal vitamins but in a banned form then Manny was simply treated unfairly. But I have always said Floyd has a better team than Manny does. He always is a step ahead of Manny outside of the ring, in terms of purses, PR and now testing protocol. What happened in this situation was not fair but it doesn’t have to mean that Floyd used PEDs. I honestly don’t know we need more evidence to make a solid determination.

I would like to see Thomas Hauser interviewed by an objective person who knows boxing. He needs to be held accountable for his articles. This is the second time he has “suggested” that Floyd has failed PED test. Hauser needs to be interviewed by a “boxing” person who knows how to question him in terms the average person can understand but at the same time relate to boxing. I get tired of non boxing people controlling boxing platforms.

I also believe Floyd Mayweather, USADA, VADA and the NSAC need to be present for this interview. All parties deserve the right to defend themselves against wrongdoing. Then Hauser’s claims need to be investigated. I personally train my thoughts not to conclusion jump. There are times when I have defended guilty people and condemned innocent ones. Time will tell us the truth. Be fair and objective. Consider the totality of the circumstances. Again….Right now we need more.

Specifically your point about the allowed testosterone ratio is too high. 6 to 1 is extremely high for a person not on anything.

I also agree PED users have to be punished much worse than they are. And lastly the networks can control. Every fighter needs a platform. If the networks required random testing then I believe fighter’s primes would start to cut shorter, the same way homeruns went down around 2005 in baseball.

Your Badou Jack prediction was spot on. Wow I won big on that, thanks my friend. But you were off on Mayweather stopping Berto. I picked Mayweather by stoppage lol. Floyd didn’t even come close to stopping Berto and it didn’t seem to try. Did you over rate his power. You say that Floyd is a better puncher than people think but he doesn’t even draw blood. Never scores knockdowns. Never stagger his opponents. What’s up with that Bread?

Bread’s Response: Dam bro I don’t even know if I should say thanks. Yes Jack was the underdog but Jack has something about him. Fighters who drastically improve after a loss all have something in common. Super work ethic and mental toughness. Jack has both and I am very impressed by him. Stand up Badou Jack. He did a great job vs a motivated George Groves.

I was correct that Mayweather would win and that should have been your primary bet. But I stand corrected I really believed Floyd would go for a ko in his last fight. I thought Berto was the perfect foil because he was visibly hurt by two non punchers in Steve Upsher and Josesito Lopez. I have to say I am shocked Floyd didn’t ko Berto given how accurate of a sharpshooter Floyd is. His right hand is one of the most accurate punches in the history of boxing.

All I can say is Floyd won’t sacrifice the win for forcing a ko. I told people before the fight that Berto’s only chance is if Floyd fought him angry and tried to hurt him. But if Floyd goes into that pot shot and skate mode, Berto has no chance. When I saw Floyd in that mode I knew it was over.

Floyd’s punching power perplexes me. I hear rumors that he’s brutal in the gym. He makes guys respect him to a point where they don’t run up on him in real fights. They seem hesitant once he starts countering them. But you are correct. He rarely draws blood, bumps or knockdowns. All signs of power. Maybe I do overrate Floyd’s power. Let’s just say this. His punching power is respectable or else his opponent’s would recklessly attack him and that rarely happens. I will also add that his temperament keeps him from getting kos also and not so much his lack of power. He rarely gets violent in fights.  Oh well it’s a moot point. Sorry your bets didn’t all come through.

What's up Bread?

I have a hypothetical question for you.  Rank the following retired (or semi-retired) junior middleweights in order of how tough they would be for you and J-Rock build a game plan against in their prime:  Who would present the biggest challenge stylistically? Who would be the most favorable if you were playing matchmaker?

1. Vernon Forrest

2. Shane Mosley

3. Oscar De La Hoya

4. Felix Trinidad

Keep up the good work,

William in West Palm

Bread’s Response: Man this is a tough question. So you’re saying rank them as far as difficulty not actually who is better. (I’m talking out loud).

I would say 1. Trinidad  2. Forrest  3. Oscar  4. Mosley.

Tito Trinidad is not the most difficult fighter to figure out but his will power is the most difficult to overcome. He would be the toughest fight at 154. The Trinidad that beat Vargas is life and death with any man to ever live at 154lbs.

No disrespect to the great Shane Mosley but he’s sort of small to be a junior middleweight and it’s not difficult to throw Shane off. He really has trouble with a good jab and movement. Forrest, Oscar and Cotto couldn’t miss him a jab. He’s fast but his defense is not as natural as the other 3 guys you named. That’s why Forrest who wasn’t as fast was able to easily time him in both fights.

What's up Bread?

I just wanted to get your thoughts on these upcoming matchups:

Lucas Matthyse vs. Victor Postol

Adrien Broner vs Khabib Allakhverdiev 

Devon Alexander vs. Aron Martinez

Andrzej Fonfara vs Nathan Cleverly

David Lemeiux vs Gennady Golovkin

Wladimir Klitschko vs Tyson Fury

Kell Brook vs Diego Chaves

Tim Bradley vs Brandon Rios

Miguel Cotto vs Canelo Alvarez

Feel free to leave out any fights you don't find compelling enough.  I just recognize that we tend to only mention guys like Floyd and Manny but now that Mayweather is retired I figured we can focus on other guys.

Peace and good luck on your upcoming fight with J-Rock

William in West Palm

Bread’s Response: I like Matthysse over Postol in an extremely close fight. Not sure if Postol has enough pop to keep Lucas off but Matthysse doesn’t cut the ring off so Postol should be able to win rounds.

Broner over Allakhverdiev. Man if you look at Broner’s career it’s the tale of two stories. Pre Malignaggi and Post Malignaggi. After Broner struggled against Paulie he was never a dominant fighter again. I don’t think he will dominate Allakhverdiev but I do think he beats him.

Alexander tough but clean decision over Martinez. But this should be a good fight. Alexander gets hit a little bit.

Fonfara over Cleverly. Fonfara is riding high, Cleverly is not. I also believe Cleverly will struggle to make 175.

GGG should stop David Lemieux. Lemiuex is an improved fighter and I am really impressed with his newfound stamina and poise. He seems to be a different fighter than the one who lost to Rubio and Alcine but GGG is the truth in my opinion and he should wear down Lemiuex in a classic shootout. Gerald McClellan vs Julian Jackson type of shootout.

I can’t get it out of my head that Fury was dropped by Steve Cunningham who is not a big puncher. But Wlad may get spooked by the insanely confident Fury. I am reserving my pick on this one. I’ve always believed you can mentally rattle Wlad.

Brook!

I’m taking Brandon Rios on the upset. I see something in Bradley’s punch delivery that can be exploited. Rios may act immature out of the ring. But he’s a man’s man in the ring. His inside game is A+ and his left uppercut is subtle but brutal. My gut tells me Rios clips Timmy.

The way Cotto has been looking lately has led me to openly say that Manny Pacquiao needs to hire his S&C coach Gavin McMillan. This may be one of the best modern career turnaround I have seen. In 2009 Cotto looked done. In 2012 he looked even worse. Now he’s the lineal middleweight champion of the world and everything he hits he destroys. I’ve never seen this before from an ex 140 pounder.

That being said I’m taking Canelo. I just think he can take more punishment than Cotto and the fight will be a high contact, highly skilled shootout. But this is truly a 50/50 fight considering how Cotto has looked lately and it’s just not the opponents. Cotto is delivering big time.

Bread man,

I was blessed to be able to be at part of Floyd's last training camp and watch him train and even run with him.  Watching him training up close and see him move I have one question; why couldn't Floyd do to the fighters of other era's what he's done to fighters and his era?  Floyd is definitely a next level athlete and I'm not sure a lot of the fighters from before can match him there.  Then we have the mental game which is something he talked about when we were running, and then defense he finds a way to take everyone's game away from them.  It leads me to believe he could be successful with his style against anyone from any era even the good pressure fighters.

God bless,

Tim

Bread’s Response: I truly believe that Floyd Mayweather could hold his own in any era from 130-147. He’s too well conditioned, too quick mentally and has too much natural ability to not do well in any era. I’ve never suggested otherwise. Floyd is too good and too smart to think he wouldn’t somehow breakthrough and hypothetically beat lots of legends. Especially if he got to fight them 3 or more times, which often happened 30+ years ago.

Now I don’t know what you mean by “do to fighter’s of other era’s what he’s done to fighter’s of this era.” Shutting out the best fighters of other eras and pott shotting them to decisions….If you are saying that then no, I don’t believe that. I am going to rattle off some names to you. Then I want you to youtube men in their primes and you tell me if Floyd could fight them like he fought Andre Berto and score shut out decisions.

Sandy Saddler, Henry Armstrong, Ray Robinson, Carlos Ortiz, Roberto Duran, Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns, Carmen Basilio, Aaron Pryor, Ike Williams, Kid Gavilan, Pernell Whitaker, Donald Curry and Kostya Tszyu.  I could have named about 30 more but those are suffice.

I’m not one of those people who believe that every fighter from back in the day can beat every present fighter, that’s a ridiculous mindset. But everyone I named would push Floyd to the limit and he would have to fight a more violent, active fight to deal with those kinds of killers.

I believe Floyd is a HOF at 130 in any era. He could be the best ever at the weight. Moving up fighting the better welters and super welters is a different story. For some reason this a small welterweight era with the 3 best over the last 10 years being Floyd 5’8, Pacquiao 5’6 and Bradley 5’6. All are smaller guys for the weight especially Pacquiao. Floyd’s most impressive accomplishment in my eyes is that he won the 154lb title 3x. That’s remarkable.

But if you are asking me could he be the best welterweight for a decade in say 1980- and have to deal with Leonard 5’10, Hearns 6’1, Curry 5’10 1/12. That’s rough. Or Mike McCallum, Tommy Hearns and Terry Norris at 154. That’s not the same as De La Hoya, Cotto and Canelo at 154. No offense to those great fighters it’s just a different threat level. I hope I understood what you were asking.

Bread,

I recently re-watched the Ibeabuchi Vs Tue scrap that was a good fight, which had me thinking of biggest waste of talents I’ve seen in my 30 years as a fan.

A couple names that come to mind are Ike Ibeabuchi, Joan Guzman, Edwin Valero and Emmanuel Augustus.

After Ike crushed Chris Byrd he was the obvious number 1 contender to Lennox and in my opinion would’ve won the fight. I think he would’ve crushed the Klitschkos too…….I heard so many great Guzman “gym” stories, truly talented fighter who seemed not to be fully dedicated to the craft with his weight issues. But also believe he wasted the early part of his career with some shady Dominican managers. Had he ended up with a TR or GBP from the beginning it could’ve been different. ……. Edwin Valero was a straight beast, unfortunately he was just as crazy outside the ring. …….Emmanuel was the most entertaining fighter ever to grace ESPN, the problem is he never left ESPN but when the guy felt like fighting he was a joy to watch.

Who are your top five waste of talents??

Thank you for your time.

Cesar

Bread’s Response: Most of the guys on your list would make my list.

Ibeabuchi and Valero are the poster boys of the last 20 years. I would add Franciso Bojado, Bernard Super Bad Mayes and Kelly Pavlik.

Pavlik was pretty much done a stop fighter at 28 years old. His drinking, sour attitude towards the system and weight problems really derailed a good run he had. Pavlik will forever be haunted by what ifs.

Mayes had a terrible drinking problem but he was a talented a guy there was in the 80s and the 80s is the 2nd most talented decades ever. Mayes was special.

When I saw Francisco Bojado at 8-0 I couldn’t believe how good he was. He was literally changing speeds of his punches mid stream. That kid looked like he would be better than Cotto his contemporary and De La Hoya whom he was most often compared to at the time. I still can’t believe he didn’t pan out. Bojado is the reason why now I don’t anoint prospects. He was the best can’t miss guy I have seen in the last 15 years and he still didn’t turn out.

What up playboy, hope the fam, friends and fighters are excelling...

1) In light of Bradley's split with Joel Diaz how many fighters can 1 trainer effectively train? and why? Is there an "average" number of fighters top trainers mess with?

2) During this Mayweather/Berto build-up the media was a HUGE part of the convo and not necessarily in a good way, that being said, who are some past and present boxing writers that you respect and why?

3) So much is being made of Floyd beating Marciano's record, yet, it seems as if other fighters have more impressive records; I know there are a whole host of fighters with more KO's than Floyd has fights.  Who has the best record/s in your opinion?

4) The more I learn about boxing the more and more I appreciate the "mental" aspect of the craft; who are some boxers that come to mind specifically for mental toughness?

5) (Completely biased question) What notable gyms are in Cleveland/Ohio, past or present, and why?

that's that!! thanks for the time!  I really hope that Julian looks exceptional on Tuesday and that he and Trout can handle that business!

be easy playboy...

later...

Bread’s Response: I don’t quite understand your question. Are you saying effectively train at one time or throughout a lifetime? I’m assuming you mean at one time. I would say no more than 5 and that’s pushing it. There are but so many hours in a day.

Trainers needs rest like fighters need rest. Gameplans and potential opponents need to be tended. The average workout is about 90 to 120 minutes. So realistically if you gave each guy one on one time, can a trainer stay in the gym 10 hours a day every day? That’s pushing it.

There isn’t an average number because trainers want the checks that come along with elite level fighters. So some take on more than they can handle.

The word writer gets thrown around to easy. Boxing media is what I like to call them. Everyone who writes is not a writer. So my favorite past and present in the boxing media are Cliff Rold, Doug Fischer, Max Kellerman, Larry Merchant and Steve Farhood.

Best records let’s see. Ray Robinson going 128-1 at his peak is simply amazing. In those times it was common to have double digit losses and Robinson compiled that record over 11 years a as a pro. Defeating a HOF in roughly 15 fights to maintain the record.

Joe Louis making 25 successful title defenses. The great part about the record is Louis didn’t make one defense for about 4 years of his reign because of WWII. Think about that. The record could be well over 40. It’s probably the best record ever considering….

Muhammad Ali defeating 4 Olympic gold Medalist as pros. Anybody that can win a Gold Medal can really fight. Especially in the no headgear era. Ali defeated Floyd Patterson, Joe Frazier, George Foreman and Leon Spinks. I don’t believe any other fighter has ever done that.

There are a whole slew of records I’m impressed with. But those 3 stand out to me.

Mental Toughness. Floyd Mayweather. No matter what is going on in his life, he rarely has a bad night. Muhammad Ali. No need to go into his resume. Ray Leonard 3 ½ years off, no tune ups, takes on #1 p4p guy in the world at a weight he’s never fought before. You have to be insane to do that. Manny Pacquiao. Gets kod twice early in his career. Regroups jumps two weight divisions and is underdog in first 3 title tries and gets a ko each time to make history.

Most of the greats pre 1980 are extremely mentally tough because they had no boxrec, no youtube to study opponent, no favorable matchmaking. They often loss early and came back to have great careers. It’s really an injustice to name just 4.

I don’t know about gyms in Cleveland but I do know Ohio produces some really good fighters. I believe Ohio, Michigan, California and PA produce the best fighter in the world.

 Send questions to dabreadman25@hotmail.com