By Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards
The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards answering questions on the recently finalized middleweight unification between Gennady Golovkin and David Lemieux, unbeaten junior welterweight Amir Imam, Andre Ward, and more.
I just read on BoxingScene that a unification at 160 has been finalized for October 17th between GGG and David Lemieux. Many people have criticized Golovkin's quality of opposition but in the absence of a superfight against Cotto or Canelo he has been fighting frequently and beating the best available guy. I know he has received flak for not agreeing to face Andre Ward at 168 but moving up is not mandatory and Erislandy Lara hasn't proven himself at 160 yet. Do you think GGG has any glaring misses thus far? Has he avoided any top middleweights? The critics can't knock him for trying to be the first to unify all the belts at 160 since Bernard Hopkins.
Peace,
William Hollis
Bread’s Response: I personally don’t have a problem with Golovkin’s resume. Most long outstanding reigns have a lot of B- defenses. The three that stand out over the last 40 years at middleweight have been Carlos Monzon’s, Marvin Hagler’s and Bernard Hopkins’.
In 15 fights, 14 defenses and 1 title win ,Monzon had 5 fights vs HOFs (Benvenuti 2x, Griffith 2x, Naploes) and 3 more vs top level killers, (Briscoe and Valdes 2x). That’s not including a tough come up.
In 13 fights, 12 defenses and 1 title win Hagler had 3 fights vs HOFs (Duran, Hearns and Leonard) and 2 more vs top level fighters (Mugabi and Antuofermo). That’s not including his ridiculously tough come up.
In 23 fights, 20 title defenses and 3 title tries Hopkins had 3 fights vs HOFs Jones, Trinidad and De La Hoya) and 9 fights vs top level fighters (Jackson, Johnson, Echols 2x, Holmes, Joppy, Eastman, Taylor 2x).
In 15 fights, 14 defenses and 1 title try Golovkin has 0 HOF or potential HOF fighters. And 3 fights vs top level guys. (Proska, Stevens and Murray) and those guys are only top level relative to this era.
So if you break down Golovkin’s resume and hold it side by side with the other middleweight standouts whose title reigns his will be compared to it’s really not close. We are in a historically weak middleweight era. But in Golovkin’s defense he has not missed a serious threat. I don’t believe it’s his fault that Danny Jacobs and Peter Quillin have not fought him, Ndam turned a fight down with him, and Lemieux seems to be stepping up. Cotto and Martinez have both turned the other cheek. So in my opinion Golovkin has fought the best available guy at his weight. If he defeats David Lemieux I would like to see him accept Erislandy Lara’s challenge because it’s not set in stone that the winner of Cotto vs Canelo will fight him.
GGG is a monstrous fighter and it’s not his fault that fighters in his weight class don’t want to fight him. He’s a killer and he’s been killing folks. On top of that the paydays for his opponents have not been that big. I assume they figure they can get brutally kod for more money somewhere else.
Bread,
What up man, hope all is well with you.
I try to be objective when reading boxing posts, but I’m starting to get the impression that Abel Sanchez and team are trying to find reasons not to fight particular fighters as opposed to fighting them. If I’m not mistaken, they were the ones calling out Andre Ward, now they’re making demands that he come down to 164. Am I missing something from that equation? I’m really, I don’t get their team. I see that Lara was calling him out, and now they’re saying that he hasn’t done anything to deserve the fight???
In my opinion, I think they’re staying away from Lara because he’s a slick boxer. Now if Golovkin connects, I have no doubt that he could get Lara out of there, but the question is will he be able to do that.
2nd I think they’re delusional if they think Andre Ward is the B side and they’re the A side. I know you’ve touched on this before, but based on Ward’s achievements (Super six), I’m not understanding how they are attempting to dictate the terms of the fight happening by demanding Ward come down to 164.
I liken it to someone trying to price themselves out of a fight. Am I thinking crazy or what? Thanks in advance for the response Bread.
Dfree
Raleigh, NC
Bread’s Response: GGG should learn from some of the great long reigning middleweight champions before him. If some of the best middleweights won’t fight him, he should consider fighting a top junior middleweight. I know for a fact Erislandy Lara wants the fight. Lara is much better than Matthew Mackilin and Daniel Geale….
In all fairness GGG has a tough assignment on his hands with David Lemieux and no one can criticize that fight. So he’s definitely not ducking Lara, I just don’t think a Lara fight should be dismissed.
Team Golovkin is just not willing to face Andre Ward. It’s just that simple and it’s nothing wrong with it. Some smaller fighters are willing to test the waters at higher weights but maybe not against the absolute killers at the higher weights. For example Roy Jones went to heavyweight. He was willing to fight John Ruiz but Lennox Lewis was a different type of task.
I think Team Golovkin is showing Andre Ward the same respect. They were willing to fight certain super middleweights at 168 but not the boss. I believe they think they would be giving up too much to fight Ward at 168 and I don’t blame them. I think Ward beats GGG. Andre Ward can’t make 164lbs without hurting himself. They know he won’t take the bait. Let’s leave this fight alone and stop discussing it. Unless Ward looks extremely vulnerable in his next few fights, GGG vs Ward will not happen.
What's up Breadman! Thanks for posting my last email and I will take the hand off the panic button for now lol. Anyways, I'm disappointed in Team GGG. Those guys are crazy to think they have the right to that power with those demands for Ward. GGG has never been on a PPV and even though they have a few belts at 160, they haven't beaten good enough fighters at 160 or any class to act like their sh*t don't stink. I'm siding with Ward on this all day with negotiations and who would win if they ever fought. How can they be all for a full 168 fight against Chavez Jr and Froch but want 164 to Ward? Chavez Jr or Froch would not be a guaranteed PPV vs GGG so that excuse is BS. I don't get it and they look like chickens for contradicting themselves. Hearing talks with Lemieux possible getting GGG this year. I hope Lemieux kicks his ass. Also, Amir Imam just made me a fan. A 5'10 guy with that reach at 140 is insane and I love how he called out Broner and Garcia as cherry pickers. What do you think about him and his future? Looks like Don King is back in the game lol.
Michael from Angleton
Bread’s Response: I like Amir Imam. I think he has a bright future at 140lbs. He’s very fundamentally sound and he has a fighter’s attitude. The kid reminds me of a young Roger Mayweather who was a terrific fighter. The best thing about Imam is he looks like he hasn’t peaked out yet, which could spell trouble. I still see things he can work on and that’s a great thing for a kid as good as he is.
The only problem I see for Imam is he will the mandatory in the WBC. I’m not sure he can beat Matthysse yet and I think Matthysse will beat Postol. Imam is not upside down but that’s tough fight for him at this moment.
What's up Bread?
I just wanted to get your thoughts on a few things:
1. Do you think Julio Caesar Chavez Jr. can make 168? and if so do you think he can be a factor? Do you think he can be a factor at 175? It looks like he will need to be matched carefully either way.
2. I read on Boxingscene that Gabe Rosado is looking to fight Chavez Jr. Do you think that matchup is even feasible? Also if you were working with Rosado would you be willing to take the fight above 168 if it meant securing a lucrative payday? (a la Brian Vera). If Vera was able to have success (in their first fight) then I think Rosado could possibly do the same or better
3. What are your thoughts on a Chavez Jr. vs Lucian Bute matchup?
Peace,
William in West Palm
Bread’s Response: I don’t think Chavez Jr cares to make 168lbs. He really never suffers repercussion for consistently missing weight no matter what the scheduled weights are.
Yes I think the Rosado fight makes sense for Chavez. Chavez is at a point where he will try to do what Vinny Pazienza and Hector Camacho did later in their careers. They will use their names to make money in marketable fights. Rosado makes action fights, he’s Puerto Rican so we have the natural rivalry. Most importantly Chavez will be a big favorite to beat Rosado, who has really struggled at 160 and Chavez would definitely make him fight at 168.
Lucian Bute was really taken the course vs Carl Froch. It seems as though he has totally lost his confidence from that one loss. There were always rumblings that he was a protected fighter and the Librado Andrade fight was no aberration. I must admit I don’t like how Bute has sort of secluded himself after the Froch fight. But I think he’s a level above Junior and he would do a job on Junior. Julio Cesar Chavez has taken his craft for granted so much, that he has regressed to a point where I don’t think he could ever compete with a top level fighter.
Why is GGG a bigger start than Sergey Kovalev? They both knock everybody out. Kovalev has actually faced better opposition. They are both on HBO. Why is one a bigger star?
Bread’s Response: GGG has better promotion behind him. They market him differently and in different locations. Kovalev is always the B side in his big fights. Usually traveling on the road as the bad ass. It’s great for his legacy but it’s not the same on his appeal.
Kovalev’s last fight was in Vegas vs a non descript challenger. People may watch the carnage on HBO but no one was flying to Vegas to see that. I personally never say this guy does not sell tickets or that guy does not sell tickets.
It’s the most ridiculous thing you can say regarding a fighter if you think about it. Fighters don’t ask promoters to take punches. When did it become acceptable to ask fighters to promote? It’s a plus if they do but this notion that a fighter does not sell tickets is on the fighter is insane.
Kovalev has done everything that has been asked of him. He doesn’t fight in a boring safety first style. So that excuse is out the window. He fights the best available competition, so that excuse is out the window. He knocks his opponents out, so that excuse is out the window. The bottom line is he’s not promoted as well as GGG is.
And I’m not taking a shot at Main Events. That’s just my opinion. Promoters as a whole in this era don’t promote as hard as they should. I see so many young kids who’s promoter don’t even promote them through social media which is FREE. Yet alone put them on flyers, buy air time at local radio stations and put them on the undercards of big fights so they can get exposure. They just simply say, the kid doesn’t have a built in fan base. Which from my interpretation means the fighter is not to their liking ethnically. The Networks serve as the Promoters for the most part in this era….
I agree with your take on "GGG asking for a catchweight against Ward means "not right now"". I think even if Ward agrees to the catchweight, GGG team will seek other excuses to avoid him NOW. I think Ward is viewed as the ultimate career-defining challenge. I believe team GGG wants to make as much money possible before facing someone as an underdog. Do you think if GGG faces Ward after Lemieux (win or lose) he will be more avoided? If he loses, the purse amount (TV rating, live gate) will be reduced. If he wins,... I can't imagine any jr MW and MW having a confidence to beat him; opponents will be facing him only for a payday, which will STILL not be a Pac/May-fight-type of payday.
If GGG-Lemieux surpasses 250K buys, do you think this means that GGG has become a draw almost on par with Canelo and Cotto. Their last PPV fights generated roughly 350K, for Angulo and Lara, and Sergio, respectively.
I know that PBC is in the early stages, but the competition of some of the promising fighters has diminished. Off the top of my head, Danny Garcia and Adonis come to mind. I used to enjoy their fights.
I wish your mailbags were more regular. I occasionally read Doug's, but he's slightly less objective than you. BTW, you should rename the title of your mailbag,... perhaps "periodical" because your mailbags are not "daily", lol.
Amarbayasgalan, occasional writer but dedicated reader from Mongolia.
Bread’s response: GGG is in a tough spot. But his people keep talking. All they have to do is say we are not interested in moving up. We have about 8 more fights at middleweight. Miguel Cotto, Canelo Alvarez, David Lemieux, Danny Jacobs, Peter Quillin, Andy Lee, Billy joe Saunders and Chris Eubank Jr. are all relevant fights that GGG can go after.
Instead they say he can make 154 and he’s also willing to fight Chavez Jr and Carl Froch at 168. Two opposite ends of the spectrum…. So then GGG gets called out by a difficult fighter at 154 in Erislandy Lara who is willing to move up and fight him. And he gets called out by the best fighter at 168 who wants to fight him at 168. Team GGG makes an excuse on why neither fight can happen. I’m a huge GGG fan. I love what he brings to boxing and I think they have done a great job with him. But they contradicted themselves with this. That’s why you have to be careful what you say because sometimes people will call you on it if you aren’t willing to back it up….
I think GGG vs Lemiuex will do about 250k buys which is a good show. Only Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao can draw 1 million buys consistently in this era. And before either of them fought Oscar De La Hoya they couldn’t do that. So 250k is reasonable. I think this fight is a hardcore’s fan dream. I don’t want to speculate too much on what will happen after the fight. Too many variables involved.
Wassup bread, I got a question for you, now I watch lots of boxing but I just need your expertise on explaining how fighters get ranked by the alphabet organizations? I see fighters ranked high by the WBA and not the IBF and vice versa. Also, how is Jermall Charlo about to fight for a title when he hasn't beat a fighter of any relevance. For God's sake he hasn't fought a former champ yet, or a contender to say the least . For people to think he is on J-Rocks level is ridiculous. Anyway keep up the good work and get that victory in September. We need yall to bring another world title to Philly.
Bread’s Response: Fighters get ranked all different ways. Their handlers submit their names and the organizations decide to rank them on merit are the two most popular ways.
Jermall Charlo is a solid fighter with lots of potential. He’s the mandatory of K9 Bundrage. Charlo and Jrock Williams names have been linked for quite some time now. Maybe one day they can decide who is better in the ring instead of having the fans debate about it.
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