Daily Bread Mailbag: Golovkin, Kovalev-Ward, Lomachenko, More

By Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards

The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards discussing more of the ongoing debates over the Andre Ward vs. Sergey Kovalev outcome, sizing up some of the best trainers in the sport, and more.

Yes Breadman

Hope all is good with training camp.

I wrote in a few months ago pointing out that Andre Ward had been fighting one handed for years and would it be enough to beat Kovalev. I felt he could.

I have watched the fight twice live on the UK feed and HBO the next day. Scored it twice for Ward 115-112. I gave Kov round 1-2-4-6

Felt the only debatable rounds were 4 and 12. After round 2 Ward made it a left hand only fight shutting out Kov right hand. Most of the success Kov had was from his stiff hard jab but he neglected it in the second half of the fight.

There was something you said a few months ago that stuck with me that Kov doesn't react well once you touch him and in round 7 I saw it. He wasn't the same man after that round.

I do feel Ward is now past his prime plus fighting one handed but to put on a display like he did was amazing vs a killer in his prime and credit to Kovalev for bringing out that side of Ward. If we can get high level competition like that 6-8 times a year boxing will go main stream again.

How did you score the fight?

Why do you think Kovalev doesn't apply pressure like Golovkin cutting off the ring?

What do you make of fighters being able to pick and wear whatever gloves they choose? Would it not be more fair if both fighters wore the same gloves like in MMA or Kickboxing?

Zab Judah vs Shane Mosley at 147?

Terry Norris vs Tito Trinidad at 154?

Pacquaio vs Mayweather at 135?

Who wins and how?

Jermaine from London

Bread’s Response: UK in the building..

Yes I think Ward took Kovalev’s right hand away to an extent. Looking back on it Kovalev should have increased the volume of his jab. I thought both fighters jabbed on even terms but that’s Ward’s fight. He’s in the advantage if it’s a battle of left hands because Kovalev’s right hand is a big part of his arsenal and Ward uses his right hand sparingly.

I thought Ward’s body work was getting to Sergey. He showed visible distress from Ward’s body attack.  Ward may not throw a lot of right hands to the head but his right hand to the body is vicious. You could see the red marks on Kovalev’s left flank.

Calling Ward a one handed fighter seems like an insult. So I don’t call him that. But I do understand why you say that. His right hand is underused offensively but he does it use it to body punch and for defensive purposes.  To his credit though he did try to land a nice right hand to the head in the 2nd round and Kovalev traded with him and dropped him. So maybe that kept the right hand in the pocket.

I just think that Ward has not used his right hand for so long in his career that his mind has adjusted to it. It’s not the worst thing in the world because no one really takes advantage of his lack of use for his right hand. I also want to point out something else.

I think one of the reasons for his mind quickness is he knows which weapon he’s going to choose. So it takes his mind less time to process. Ward is not going to go in his toolbox to throw a variety of uppercuts or exotic punches. He’s going to stab you in the stomach with a jab. Stab you in the head with a jab. Or occasionally shoot a short hard hook. He keeps it simple and it works for him. The man is 32 years old and has not lost in 20 years.

I thought both fighters put on a top level display. Ward showed legendary heart, skill and determination…..Kovalev showed great skill and determination.

I didn’t score the fight. It’s not the political answer it’s the truth. I also don’t want to sit down and rescore it because mentally it contaminates your thought process to do that. But I’m sure during some down time I will. I will let you know when I do.

Kovalev does not apply pressure like GGG because he’s not GGG. Kovalev is a stalker like Tommy Hearns and Bob Foster. His game is keeping you on the end of his punches and stalking you. Long, tall stalkers rarely cut off the ring. They stalk you and score points. Look at Tommy Hearns’s fights vs Wilfred Benitez and Ray Leonard. He never cut the ring off on those two elite boxers. He stalked them. Stalkers are pointing their lead shoulder at you trying to land a jab. It gives the mover an exit. I tried to point this out to you guys last week.

A stalker is constantly snapping his jab. But he’s not jabbing to get up on you. He’s jabbing to keep you at a distance and score points. The distance allows the moving fighter to not be trapped on the ropes or in the corners. A pressure fighter jabs his way in so he can punish you up close. I know some will say GGG uses his jab. Yes he does but when he’s in hunter mode he’s using it to step up into your personal space. Kovalev needs extension to hurt you. GGG doesn’t. They are different types of animals that shouldn’t be confused.

I don’t have a problem with different brands of gloves. The problem I have is custom made gloves. Gloves should not be custom made. That’s too much of a built in advantage. I also think there is a looming problem with pad distribution in gloves. There are gloves that weigh the correct amount as far 8 or 10oz. But the padding in them is distributed more in the wrist area than it is in the fist area. That’s a huge problem because you don’t punch with the wrist you punch with the fist. The commissions need to pick up on this hopefully sooner and not later.

Mosely vs Judah. Part of Mosely’s prime was at 147 in the late 90s and early 2000s. He would simply be too strong, take too good of a punch and had too much stamina for Judah at any point. Mosley in a late stoppage.

Trinidad vs Norris. This fight almost happened. They were both with Don King and one division apart. Norris liked fighting smaller men and Tito was getting too big for 147. Norris would have a good chance to outbox Tito. But my gut tells me that Tito was too consistent for 12 rounds and at some point he would hit Norris on the temple with a left hook and that would be the fight.

Mayweather vs Pacquiao. The bizarre thing about Floyd’s career was his fights at 135. He fought Emanuel Augustus at 135 and Floyd himself claimed it was his toughest fight. He fought Jose Luis Castillo twice and many thought he lost the 1st one and he won the second fight 7 to 5 but clean. He had an ok performance vs Victor Sosa then he set the world on fire vs Phillip N dou. The Ndou fight was his only lights out performance at 135. I don’t think it was bad weight for him sometimes things just happen at a certain point in your life…

Pacquiao was lights out at 135 vs David Diaz!

For arguments sake I say Floyd edges it. But who knows man.  Pac’s performance against David Diaz could have been the best of his career. It’s hard to pick against him hypothetically at that time. These two greats not fighting between 08-10 is one of my biggest disappointments in boxing, ever!

What did you think of Kostya Tszyu’s comments about Kovalev? He pretty much said Kovalev won but he doesn’t have the right to complain because he could have fought better. He suggested Kovalev find out what went wrong and not blame the judges. He should blame himself.

Bread’s Response: The heat of the fight is still in Kovalev. If he really feels he won which I am sure he does think that, all types of emotions are going through his body. Kovalev will need some time to sit back and reflect.

However Tszyu has a point. I have seen fighters harp on negativity and it ruins them. Kovalev needs to troubleshoot on what he can do better and then learn how to fix it. He fought a good fight not a perfect one.

 You are a sharp guy Bread but you often times give some people too much credit. You like Andre Ward and Genady Golovkin as fighters so you listed both of their trainers as the some of the top trainers in boxing. Hunter has had only one world champion. Maybe he got lucky with Ward. Abel Sanchez got GGG when he was 18-0. He was already made as a fighter and he was an Olympic Silver Medalist. You should know better. They don’t compare to Freddie Roach who had over 30 world champions.

Bread’s Response: I never said Virgil Hunter or Abel Sanchez were better trainers than Freddie Roach. Roach is the gold standard in this era. He’s at the top of the food chain. But that doesn’t mean Hunter and Sanchez aren’t great as well.

I don’t care if Virgil Hunter had 0 world champions. I know a great trainer when I see one. The job he has done with Ward has been remarkable. If you ever speak with Hunter for an extended length of time you will find out just how sharp of a boxing mind he is. In this era it will be difficult for a trainer to have 20 or 30 world champions like Manny Steward and Ray Arcel. The structure of boxing different. 

Also you have to take in consideration that some trainers have farm systems where prominent managers and promoters feed them fighters. They don’t even train all of the stable they get credited for. So statistically they may have more world champions. But that doesn’t mean they are the best. There is a reason these seasoned pros keep flocking to Hunter in the Bay area.

Abel Sanchez has improved GGG. It doesn’t matter when he got him. The hardest thing to do in boxing is to improve an already successful fighter. Under Sanchez ,GGG has gotten stronger. He cuts the ring off better. And his overall ring presence is next level. Sanchez also had the great Terry Norris who fights nothing like GGG but under Sanchez had similar success.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Obviously a trainer needs talent to work with. Obviously GGG and Ward are genetically gifted. But even fighters with god given gifts have to be cultivated. They have to be seasoned properly. They need the watchful eye to take them to the next level. You need to shut your mouth and listen and learn from Sanchez and Hunter. If you had a young son those are the kinds of trainers you would want to take them too.

I feel what you said about rescoring fights. I dvr the fight and watched it 3 times. I came up with a different score every time. It was a waste of time. I am interested in knowing who are most people that you know are saying won and what is the most common score.

Bread’s Response: Elite level fighters are elite for a reason. Often times they will do enough in a round to make a case for themselves. It’s part of being a top level fighter. So if you watch a historically debatable and close fight you will find reasons to give one of the participants close rounds. If I wanted to make a subjective case for Ward or Kovalev I could and it really wouldn’t be hard. So that’s why I haven’t indulged.

I would say 65% of the people I know scored the fight for Kovalev. With 35% scoring for Ward. The common score I keep getting is 114-113 for Kovalev. Most people feel both guys won 6 rounds but the knockdown was the difference. I personally don’t respect everyone’s score. I know people in boxing and people in the media are partial to both and that’s how they scored it. It’s common knowledge. But there are a handful of people I know who are always objective almost to a fault. Out of those particular boxing sharps the feedback has been on both sides. Some say Ward edged it, some say Kovalev.

How good is Lomachenko? Is he the best fighter in the world or is he just the most impressive and most talented? How does he match up with Manny Pacquiao? What do you think of Walters quitting?

Bread’s Response: Lomachenko is a special talent. He’s better than good. He’s terrific.

I wouldn’t call him the best fighter in the world just yet. But he could be the most talented. Guillermo Rigondeaux would have a reasonable argument. I think Lomachenko is top 10 p4p right now. But I need to see him against a few more elite level opponents before I call him the best fighter in boxing.

I don’t want to kick Walters for quitting. He’s a human being and human beings make mistakes. The man is probably going through a lot right now and I don’t want to contribute to that.

The one thing I will say is fighters need to be careful with making excuses. Before the fight Walters kept talking about his layoff. He didn’t use him being off for a year as fuel. He didn’t use it as a “Me against the World” type of motivation. He let it hinder him. As soon as Lomachenko frustrated him, he fell back on the year layoff excuse. This should be an example of what not to do for young fighters.

If circumstances are not favorable to you, deal with the hand you got dealt. Don’t let the negativity consume you. Because in tight spots it will creep back in your mind.

Bread,

What's up?

Great MB!

Ward's ring rust was apparent in the Kovalev fight and now he's gotten rid of that rust with the greatest win of his career. Kovalev did look faded in the 2nd half of the fight only because Ward looked more energized.

Coming back in March or April will put the rematch as an advantage for Ward.

Ward is not Floyd Mayweather and needs to fight more to stay sharp and coordinated, his coordination was slightly off in all three fights he had this year.

I saw the first fight between these two guys as being easy work for Ward and I was wrong.

I see the rematch as being much more lucrative for Ward because he'll improve from the outing, Kovalev will bring the same as he brought in the 1st fight and go for the KO, Ward will look much better and will more comfortably.

Bread’s Response: You are correct. Kovalev looked faded because Ward looked more energized. People don’t realize Kovalev threw more and landed more in the 2nd half of the fight than he did in the 1st half. But his body language was not the same, which gives the perception of a late round fade.

I think the fighter who comes up with the best gameplan for the sequel has the advantage. I still don’t know who that will be but my guts tell me it will be Ward. The reason I say that is because he seems to work more off of processing situations in the ring. With Kovalev being an instinctive killer with boxing ability. As good as Kovalev is and I think he’s GREAT. It’s hard for me to imagine him coming back from a clean hard knockdown vs Ward and being down at least 4 rounds to 2 going into the 2nd half of the fight. I watched Ward do that and embrace it.

For reference, in the Mayweather vs Maidana rematch, Maidana made a huge mistake. That mistake was he tried to be too cerebral with Mayweather. His punch output went way down and he tried to save something for the 2nd half of the fight. NO!

Maidana fought a helluva fight vs Floyd in their first fight. He should have fought the same fight. Be an instinctive animal and fight. The boxing instincts will take over. The punch selection will take over. What fighters don’t realize is it doesn’t matter if you win the first 7 rounds or the last 7 rounds. The object is to win 7 rounds in a 12 round fight. Maidana realized Floyd made a strong push in the 2nd half of their first fight. So in the 2nd fight he starts slower and allows Floyd to win too many early rounds get in his groove.

A smart gameplan is to keep things simple and do what works. If Kovalev slows down because Ward had a good 2nd half he’s toast.

Hi Bread, read the bag just. You didnt tell us who YOU think won after the fight. Who you think won matters to us lol. I hate it when the concensus seems to be Fighter A won but dont have a problem with judges giving it to Fighter B. Agree both are great fighters but eyes tell me Kovalev won and no need for rematch period. And by the way, what comeback didnt see that one sorry.

Ben from Singapore

Bread’s Response: What’s up Ben? I told you guys. I was in suspense as they announced the decision. I honestly told everyone at the fight party that it’s going to be razor close and I couldn’t tell who won. When I heard 114-113 on all three judges scorecards it reinforced my feelings. In my opinion that was one of the more difficult fights to score that I have ever seen.

You kool Breadman

Wanted to talk about two of the best inside fighters ever. Roberto Duran and James Toney.

Who is the better inside fighter in your opinion?

What was their best weapon inside?

Who did a better job on Iran Barkley?

Who would win at 160lbs?

Jermaine from London

Bread’s Response: It’s not fair to compare Duran vs Toney at 160. Toney started out there and 160 was Duran’s ceiling. But let me tell you something the Duran who fought Hagler would give Toney hell at 160. James Toney don’t run from no one and that would play into Duran’s hands. You could also outhustle Toney in spots.

Duran is slightly better inside in my opinion. The reason being is Toney needed you to cooperate to fight on the inside. Duran was better at tracking you down if you ran from him and holding you on the ropes and brutalizing you. He was more energetic and he could force an inside fight more than Bad Ass James.

Toney best inside weapon was his ability to roll and counter. He was unreal at rolling shots and countering shots.

Duran’s best inside weapon was his instincts of just knowing where his opponent’s hands were. He could sense your body movement and he seemed to muffle and blunt the inside attack from his opponents. Duran also used to move you into his punches. He took his free hand and often moved you into a hook with the other hand.

They both did a job on Barkley. But Toney beat him up worse and stopped him. But you have to realize Duran was a 37 year old ex lightweight fighting a huge middleweight in his prime. Toney beat Barkley 4 years after Duran fought him and Toney was at his peak. So there are factors.

Yo Bread!

You definitely need to get a youtube talkshow or something of the like.

Anyhow, my question! After watching the replay of Loma/Walters on sunday and reacting badly to Walters quitting, my Mrs argued with me that he wasn’t going to win and shouldn’t voluntarily take a potentially life altering beating.

I saw her point, but he didn’t seem to be hurt badly, at least no where near as bad as Donaire had him in the 2nd round of their fight. Plus he fought back into it then and obviously KO'd Nonito.

Walters is a puncher, with fight altering power. Marciano was outboxed across lots of fights but would always eventually ended it in his favour. Froch dramatically did the same with Taylor too!

Do you think an hopelessly outpointed puncher should just hold on and take that sort of damage/beating to hope for an opening?

Cheers,

Joe

Bread’s Response: I say listen to your Mrs.  She knows what she’s talking about. I have watched some fighters quit and I honestly know they are con men. I didn’t get that from Walters.

Obviously as someone involved in the sport you don’t ever want to see a fighter quit. But Walters was demoralized.  He had not fought in over a year. Before that he was on the rough end of a draw. So he holds out only to make 300k vs Loma’s 1 million. That’s extremely demoralizing. Then on top of that he gets outclassed. Again he probably would have lost even he fought 3 times this year. But it’s just not a good situation to be in.

I don’t want to make a general statement about who should quit and who shouldn’t. It’s not a good thing to quit. But sometimes it’s understandable. Let’s just leave it at that.

Send questions to dabreadman25@hotmail.com