Which knuckles to land a punch with? Jack Dempsey, his book and the "power line"

[Aperion]

Has anyone read Jack Dempsey's book "Championship Fighting: Explosive Punching and Aggressive Defense"? It is really interesting so far, you can read the whole thing here (or print it out):

http://www.freecirclefighting.com/jdbook.pdf

Anyway, I'm starting to get really confused when he's talking about the "power line" and using specific knuckles to land a punch with. Dempsey claims the power line goes from the shoulder to the pinky finger, and insists its vitally important to land all your punches with the ring finger knuckle, which he calls the second knuckle. While I don't doubt it worked for Dempsey for obvious reasons, the little boxing training I've had I've always been told to land with the index and middle finger knuckles first.

So what should I do when I go hit my heavybag? Any suggestions and thoughts from people with experience would be greatly appreciated

[Spartacus Sully]

If your pissed off at some one and bare knuckle punching him in the face use your pointer and middle knuckles that way if your really mess up the punch your not going to destroy your knuckles.

hitting the bag you can use your lower 3 but get good at landing them so it hits with the knuckle above your pinky then immediately goes to your middle knuckle then back to your ring knuckle then finally to your pinky once your good at that you can start swinging like that hard on the bag.

[Walt Liquor]

Originally Posted by Aperion

Has anyone read Jack Dempsey's book "Championship Fighting: Explosive Punching and Aggressive Defense"? It is really interesting so far, you can read the whole thing here (or print it out):

http://www.freecirclefighting.com/jdbook.pdf

Anyway, I'm starting to get really confused when he's talking about the "power line" and using specific knuckles to land a punch with. Dempsey claims the power line goes from the shoulder to the pinky finger, and insists its vitally important to land all your punches with the ring finger knuckle, which he calls the second knuckle. While I don't doubt it worked for Dempsey for obvious reasons, the little boxing training I've had I've always been told to land with the index and middle finger knuckles first.

So what should I do when I go hit my heavybag? Any suggestions athoughts
from people with experience would be greatly appreciated

This is easy. If you are fighting for real (bare knuckle fist fight) you should have a straight line from your shoulder to your index finger, meaning you hit with your first two knuckles. To me, that is the real way to hit. In boxing, you are trained to hit with the middle and maybe 3rd fingerr because your hand is wrapped and you have gloves on. This will give you more of a chance to score because you have a bigger fist aiming at your target.

If your wrist is straight, you will do more damage hitting with the first two knuckles.

[mrchallenge]

Spartacus Sully and Walt Liquor, I am guessing that neither of you have ever competed in a boxing match or have ever thrown and landed a successful punch in bare knuckle combat. Don't be giving out dangerously false info. I work as a boxing coach for a living. Any boxing trainer will tell you to hit with the bottom three knuckles, either with gloves or without. Hitting with the index and middle finger (the top two knuckles) will only accomplish breaking your hand. This is what Dempsey also said. Dempsey's book is quite brilliant I must say. The powerline simply means to keep punches straight and pure without unnecessary movement.

[Spartacus Sully]

Originally Posted by mrchallenge

Spartacus Sully and Walt Liquor, I am guessing that neither of you have ever competed in a boxing match or have ever thrown and landed a successful punch in bare knuckle combat. Don't be giving out dangerously false info. I work as a boxing coach for a living. Any boxing trainer will tell you to hit with the bottom three knuckles, either with gloves or without. Hitting with the index and middle finger (the top two knuckles) will only accomplish breaking your hand. This is what Dempsey also said. Dempsey's book is quite brilliant I must say. The powerline simply means to keep punches straight and pure without unnecessary movement.

and im guessing the only bare knuckle punch youve landed was against a flat wall.

heads are round and moving, with out padding you dont want to be hitting them with your weakest knuckles.

[TheHolyCross]

Originally Posted by Walt Liquor

This is easy. If you are fighting for real (bare knuckle fist fight) you should have a straight line from your shoulder to your index finger, meaning you hit with your first two knuckles. To me, that is the real way to hit. In boxing, you are trained to hit with the middle and maybe 3rd fingerr because your hand is wrapped and you have gloves on. This will give you more of a chance to score because you have a bigger fist aiming at your target.

If your wrist is straight, you will do more damage hitting with the first two knuckles.

first two knuckles? good way to break your finger, it should be from the middleknuckle down to the pinky

boxing street fight w/e, middle knuckle needs in on the action, index finger knuckle should be the one getting the least action

[Spartacus Sully]

Originally Posted by Defututus

first two knuckles? good way to break your finger, it should be from the middleknuckle down to the pinky

boxing street fight w/e, middle knuckle needs in on the action, index finger knuckle should be the one getting the least action

again, heads are round and move.

unlike flat walls.





the index and the middle finger are the strongest knuckles and the least likely to break......so lets make sure we all use our 2 weakest knuckles when we punch a moving hard rounded object.

[TheHolyCross]

Originally Posted by Spartacus Sully

again, heads are round and move.

unlike flat walls.

what do flat walls have to do with anything of what is being said?
you dont look to hit with your index finger knuckle, you just dont, ever
if you punch a head you're gonna hurt your hand, good chance you break despite how you punch
but although the odds are always high that you will damage your knuckles, the odds get a little lower as you go down the fist(from index to pinky gettin a little higher again)

if your that terrified of breaking your hands in a street fight then slap or hammer punch like a tool

not to mention looking to land with your first two knuckles is a good way to break your thumb if you're not completely accurate

[Spartacus Sully]

Originally Posted by Defututus

what do flat walls have to do with anything of what is being said?
you dont look to hit with your index finger knuckle, you just dont, ever
if you punch a head you're gonna hurt your hand, good chance you break despite how you punch
but although the odds are always high that you will damage your knuckles, the odds get a little lower as you go down the fist(from index to pinky)

if your that terrified of breaking your hands in a street fight then slap or hammer punch like a tool

not to mention looking to land with your first two knuckles is a good way to break your thumb

most early boxers that partook in the bareknuckle days like john l sullivan and bob fitzsimmons rolled their wrists out when they punched and turned their hand over. this punch would land so that you were looking at the back of your hand with your thumb pointed down.

the goal of this punch, to land with your index and middle fingers.

this technique is what was used for decades in bareknuckle boxing, back before the days of gem mace even.

im gonna stick with what they did, over your opinion.



here you can watch the technique, notice that in the beginning his lead left wrist is allready rolled out while his right is rolled in to add extra snap and power when he rolls it out throwing it. you can also see at 10 seconds in when he actualy turns his fist over faking a left.

then at 27 seconds he throws a looping right hand in kinda slow mo against a speed bag and you can kinda see how the hand turns over too.

but of course, this is a rounded punch and while incredibly powerfull and most likely the cause of the legendary punching power of chyonski, fitzsimmons, and sullivan, its not a straight punch so its inherently slower and easier to block, counter, or dodge. so its not the best thing any more in an actual boxing match, but its an amazing technique when your in a street fight.

[TheHolyCross]

wish i had something to punch around here
but after throwing a couple of slo-mo shadowboxing like punches along with imagining how i usually do it, i dont even know anymore
all i know is that i want to land with my middle-knuckle, w/e else knuckle gets in is not my concern, i would never look to land with my index, considering the gap between index and middle it feels like a good way to break somethin if the head moves and i can't get my middle finger in, and the only knuckles i've ever bruised/broken are my middle and ring finger, middle has gotten pretty banged up before, so although my index finger gets in, the others definitely take the grunt of the force

speaking of which, i have a bruised ring finger right now