jack dempsey is the most overrated.....

[billionaire]

i used to get taught he was great but when you look at it he really isnt.....11 draws = weak

all he did was beat down big goofy white guys with 2 left feet....he gets respect because he was a lil guy and was exciting but other than that hes nothing special.......the one time he fought a black guy it was a bum journeyman who was 20-10 or something and it was a tie thats how bad he was.......

he milked his championship for all he got, he barely even fought at all, forget harry wills......

about the long count - if he was such a great stalker he wouldve put tunney on his ass again, instead he got put on his ass the next round........thats on jermaine taylors level

joe louis would smoke that fool

[mickey malone]

Originally Posted by billionaire

i used to get taught he was great but when you look at it he really isnt.....11 draws = weak

all he did was beat down big goofy white guys with 2 left feet....he gets respect because he was a lil guy and was exciting but other than that hes nothing special.......the one time he fought a black guy it was a bum journeyman who was 20-10 or something and it was a tie thats how bad he was.......

he milked his championship for all he got, he barely even fought at all, forget harry wills......

about the long count - if he was such a great stalker he wouldve put tunney on his ass again, instead he got put on his ass the next round........thats on jermaine taylors level

joe louis would smoke that fool

Agreed... Just a very good brawler....

[JAB5239]

Originally Posted by mickey malone

Agreed... Just a very good brawler....

Dempsey was much more than a brawler.

[Southpaw16BF]

This has been said a good few times, and this was my reply the last time it was said Dempey was overrated.....

Yeah i guess some boxing writers may get carried away with him, but i think you've went a little over the top with your comment.

.Pretty hard to say Willard was over the hill when he never actually started boxing till he was 30 years of age, so he had only been in the game 7 years, and was coming off 6 wins(3 by ko), which included a ko win over Jack Johnson yes a over the hill one, and a defence of his world title against Frank Moran, so Willard was not really over the hill.

.Should of made more defences instead of going to hollywood, but he did make 5 defences and won 4 by Ko which is pretty impressive.

.You say he never beat a prime fighter, when he fought Tommy Gibbons, in Gibbons's last 50 fights the only man to beat him was the great Harry Grebx2.Dempsey would end this run with a 15 Round UD.

.Georges Carpentier may have not been at his natraul weight, but going into the Dempsey fight he had not been defeated in 6 years, was coming of a KO win over the tough Battling Levinsky, and was World Light Heavyweight champion and was European Heavyweight champion. Dempsey Ko'd him in 4.

.Luis Angel Firpo had not been beat in 4 years,and in his last 12 fights he had ko'd 11, and did have wins over Jess Willard and Charley Weinert. Demspey ko'd him in 2 in a epic battle.

.When Dempsey defeated Jack Sharkey, Sharkley hadn't been beat in 2 years, and was on a 13 fight win streak, which included wins over Harry Wills. Dempsey ko'd him in 7, and after Sharrkley would on to defeat Max Schmeling the man to give Joe Louis his first loss, to capture the heavyweight crown.

.When Dempsey fought Gene Tunney the second time a fighter who was in his prime, by many boxing experts Dempsey should of been the winner due the famous long count, in which Tunney was belived to of been down 14 seconds.

Also
.One of the Biggest Ever Boxing's Draw's if not the biggest.
.Viewed by some as the one of the Hardest ever punchers if not the hardest puncher of all time.
.Held wins over Fireman Jim Flynn,Jess Willard,Georges Carpentier,Tommy Gibbons, and Luis Angel Firpo.

So we can all make bad points about past ATG fighters, but i think you went a bit over the top with the Demspey comment and like it or not he's no dout a ATG fighter in my eyes and many many other boxing experts.

.

I undertand some of the things I'am saying in my article are things you have not said, but your probaly thinking most of it anyway.

But like most fighters Dempsey did have his bad points, no dout and your intitled to your views that you belive he was overrated, but I don't know about the most overrated fighter ever, and he's not as overrated as you make him out to be, all do like I said some people may get carried away with him.

[Southpaw Stinger]

Dempsey knew fighting better than anyone.

[Southpaw16BF]

Originally Posted by billionaire

i used to get taught he was great but when you look at it he really isnt.....11 draws = weak

And you say due to him having 11 draws makes him weak, lots of ATG fighters have draws on there record etc Carlos Monzon(9), Archie Moore(11), Henry Armstrong(11) and many more great fighters have been held to draws over the years, but it dosen't make them ''weak''

[Southpaw Stinger]

Originally Posted by Southpaw16bf

And you say due to him having 11 draws makes him weak, lots of ATG fighters have draws on there record etc Carlos Monzon(9), Archie Moore(11), Henry Armstrong(11) and many more great fighters have been held to draws over the years, but it dosen't make them ''weak''

People are ignorant of the old time fights.

In his early fights there was often no judging involved and if a fight went the distance then it was automaticly declared either a draw or a NC. You could batter a guy around the ring but if you couldn't get him out of there it could still lead to a draw/NC in some of those fights. People relied on newspaper journalists for their oppinion on who won.
If Paulie Malignacci fought in those day he probably wouldn't get a win on record.

[poet682006]

Originally Posted by Southpaw Stinger

People are ignorant of the old time fights.

In his early fights there was often no judging involved and if a fight went the distance then it was automaticly declared either a draw or a NC. You could batter a guy around the ring but if you couldn't get him out of there it could still lead to a draw/NC in some of those fights. People relied on newspaper journalists for their oppinion on who won.
If Paulie Malignacci fought in those day he probably wouldn't get a win on record.

Thank you Stinger: You beat me too it I would also point out that Mike Tyson patterened himself on Jack Dempsey, considered Dempsey his hero. One would think with the worship that Tyson gets around here that people would be more respectful of the fighter Tyson admired over all others.

Poet

[Southpaw16BF]

Originally Posted by Southpaw Stinger

People are ignorant of the old time fights.

In his early fights there was often no judging involved and if a fight went the distance then it was automaticly declared either a draw or a NC. You could batter a guy around the ring but if you couldn't get him out of there it could still lead to a draw/NC in some of those fights. People relied on newspaper journalists for their oppinion on who won.
If Paulie Malignacci fought in those day he probably wouldn't get a win on record.

Indeed, some posters need to understand when you see lots of losses and draws on the old school fighter's such as Dempsey Langford etc.

They need to understand things such as fixed fights, carrying your opponet, newpaper decision's, draws etc, were all very common back in certain era's. And no offence to the person who started this thread, I don't think you no much about the history deparment in boxing, with all due respect.

For example you may see alot of newspaper decision on the records of fighter like Harry Greb and Sam Langford etc.

Now Newspaper decisions are rendered when the state does not allow an officail decision and the sporting writers give their opinion as to who won the fight in the newspapers. ''No decison fights'' as they are often called were still the norm in alot of the boxing world, this meaning alot of bouts would likely end this way.

But for example fighitng was legal in New York when Harry Greb was fighting, but no decsion bouts were the norm in Grebs hometown Pitsburgh were he was doing most of his fighting, so thats why alot of Grebs fight are no decision or newspaper decisions.

Therefore in the record books, you will see ND6, which means a newspaper decision fight sceduled for six rounds.

[Infern0]

Op, No he isn't, Mike Tyson or Rocky Marciano are