Floyd and Pressure Fighters

[Bushidō]

I think Cotto's jab had more to do with his success than him being a pressure fighter.

[Phenom]

if I'm not mistaken Floyd out worked Cotto who didn't throw much

[Godsfly]

against cotto and dela hoya it was the jab not pressure........

that leaves us with one fighter (castillo)

castillo hit on the hip, legs, off the break. castillo rubbed his head into mayweathers chest. he did a lot of things to make it a dirty fight. it was the dirtiness along with the pressure......& castillo was outboxed & defused in the rematch.

margarito didn't fight in that dirty grinding kinda style like castillo. Williams didn't fight in that dirty grinding style & pac isn't even a pressure fighter at all.

[Doctor_Tenma]

I rewatched the Cotto fight and can see that Mayweather struggles more with a guy who cuts off the ring and puts the pressure on him. This was how both De La Hoya and Cotto had success. At the same time - neither of them are know to be effective pressure fighters.

The only other closest thing would've been Ricky Hatton, but he's a mauler, more than a high-output fighter.

This is why Floyd has been given heat for fighting these three fighters: Antonio Margarito, Paul Williams, and Manny Pacquiao. They all have one thing in common - high punch output and pressure.

Everyone Floyd has fought that I can remember have been boxer-punchers or boxers. There hasn't been someone who tried to go to war with him since Cotto and De La Hoya - the same two who have seen the most success against Mayweather.

Feel free to point my observation wrong.

Paul Williams is made to be ineffective when one provides movement, he doesn't have the footwork or foot speed of a Miguel Cotto. Cintron before quitting actually had a lot of success controlling distance and countering. It's not difficult to make Williams have to reset. Margarito would have been somewhat of a problem in that he is willing to put himself out there to land, but Floyd would strictly box and likely stink up the joint (I have to admit) to win it. Same goes for Manny, he was made to look one dimensional when Cotto provided movement in the second half, or even watch the Mosley fight as well. Pacquiao may have shown improvement against your typical come forward style but he hasn't changed when confronted with movers.

I'm not saying Floyd is unbeatable because he isn't but ideally you would need someone like a Roberto Duran, a well trained Duran. Someone who defends well coming in so it isn't easy to score on him, and is also beastly in the pocket. Pretty much, you would need a great pressure fighter and currently there isn't one.

[dc3383]

Paul Williams and Margarito are the same flat footed type of fighters that people see Floyd picks now. People actually think they would still throw over 1000 punches vs him.

[Unknown Champ]

Quote me on this, "Only a lucky ko punch beats Floyd Mayweather Jr."

[The Gambler1981]

Really Margarito and Williams can't hold JLC boots as good pressure fighters, Manny can't either but at least that isn't his game

[B-Bomber]

My argument is that Cotto and De La Hoya were never known as high volume/pressure fighters, but they were the closest things in Mayweather's resume that resembled that kind of fighter.

I still believe fighters that relentlessly throw 900+ punches per fight, like Williams, Margarito, and Pacquiao, would give Mayweather his greatest problems. That is, considering Cotto, Hatton (to a lesser extent), and De La Hoya weren't boxed to pieces like Guerrero and Canelo.

I agree with the first part of your post, not with the second.

Cotto and De La Hoya had some success because of the way the put pressure, in my opinion.

Floyd, and most fighters fighting in a philly shell, want two things:

1) Fight at an average/slow pace.

2) Set you up for a right hand.

The body mechanics of the philly shell, if one masters the technique and can anticipate punches, make it very difficult to go under, around or on top of it.

There are a few known counter measures, of course it's easier said than done against a guy like Floyd, but a certain approach usually helps.

1) Do not allow the 'philly shell' fighter to set the pace, so pressure is important. By pressure I do not mean mere volume, but feints, upper body movement, foot work.

2) Force the 'philly shell' to open up, and here comes the jab. The jab is 'the key' to open the door. If your jab lands, the philly shell will have to eventually open up.

3) Work angles. That is crucial at that level. You won't hit Floyd by standing in front of him and throw punches. Some call it "splitting". And again, the easist way to split a philly shell is by jabbing over their lead hand while keeping your head on the outside. You can keep your right hand up to protect you from a left hook, while they can't reach you with their right without either spinning or trying something akward.

Of course, of the fighters you mentioned, the one who has/had the best shot is Manny.

He is a southpaw, and although it's not crucial, it forces Floyd to change a few things. He is/was extremely fast of hand and foot, and moves in and out in from different angles. He circles you, doesn't normall stand in front of you.

On the other hand, Manny is rather easy to set up for a right hand, and Floyd sets much more and better traps than JMM, is bigger, stronger, faster, has a longer reach and better chin.

Second, Manny is not always the most disciplined of fighters, while in my opinion to beat Floyd you need to be extremely disciplined. You can't just lunge forward and let your hands go.

That's a fight I'd still like to see, of course it's not the same as a few years back, but it'd still be interesting.

[dc3383]

I agree with the first part of your post, not with the second.

Cotto and De La Hoya had some success because of the way the put pressure, in my opinion.

Floyd, and most fighters fighting in a philly shell, want two things:

1) Fight at an average/slow pace.

2) Set you up for a right hand.

The body mechanics of the philly shell, if one masters the technique and can anticipate punches, make it very difficult to go under, around or on top of it.

There are a few known counter measures, of course it's easier said than done against a guy like Floyd, but a certain approach usually helps.

1) Do not allow the 'philly shell' fighter to set the pace, so pressure is important. By pressure I do not mean mere volume, but feints, upper body movement, foot work.

2) Force the 'philly shell' to open up, and here comes the jab. The jab is 'the key' to open the door. If your jab lands, the philly shell will have to eventually open up.

3) Work angles. That is crucial at that level. You won't hit Floyd by standing in front of him and throw punches. Some call it "splitting". And again, the easist way to split a philly shell is by jabbing over their lead hand while keeping your head on the outside. You can keep your right hand up to protect you from a left hook, while they can't reach you with their right without either spinning or trying something akward.

Of course, of the fighters you mentioned, the one who has/had the best shot is Manny.

He is a southpaw, and although it's not crucial, it forces Floyd to change a few things. He is/was extremely fast of hand and foot, and moves in and out in from different angles. He circles you, doesn't normall stand in front of you.

On the other hand, Manny is rather easy to set up for a right hand, and Floyd sets much more and better traps than JMM, is bigger, stronger, faster, has a longer reach and better chin.

Second, Manny is not always the most disciplined of fighters, while in my opinion to beat Floyd you need to be extremely disciplined. You can't just lunge forward and let your hands go.

That's a fight I'd still like to see, of course it's not the same as a few years back, but it'd still be interesting.

Hell of a post all excellent points

[#1Assassin]

mayweather fought lots of pressure fighters and he eats them alive. damn near everyone who fights him thinks pressure is the key and he always picks them apart.

cotto and DLH didnt have success because they applied pressure, they had success because of their defense. floyd dont waste punches, he looks for the perfect shot. if he struggles to land he wont move as much, if he can hit you he will take the points and move but if he cant he will stay in the pocket until he finds a spot to land in.

because of their boxing pedigree. good fundamentals, busy jab and high boxing IQ. DLH and cotto were able to give floyd a difficult target which restricted his output while making him stand in front of them trying to find an opening, neither of them had much offensive success of their own though as very few punches actually got through but by keeping him in front of them and letting their hands go they made themselves look good compared to most mayweather victims before floyd eventually found the remedy to break through their defense without getting caught and picked them apart.

margarito, williams and pacquiao would be much easier to hit so floyd would just take the points and move. margarito is waaaay too flat footed and slow, floyd would outbox him with ease and he has the stamina to maintain all night. tony wouldnt be able to hit floyd enough to wear him down and he doesnt have the power to take him out with one punch or the skill, intelligence and speed to land it. floyd would pitch a shut out, no doubt in my mind.

pacquiao would be outboxed easily as well, when someone doesnt stand in front of him manny cant put his punches together, he also struggles with distance and leaps in from too far away leaving himself exposed. when someone gives him angles he cant cut the ring off or use any angles himself so he just follows the guy around and tries to jump in with wild swings one or two at a time. floyds height, reach and sense of distance would be the story of the fight as he easily keeps manny at bay by circling and setting traps for an increasingly frustrated and sloppy pacquiao. pacquiao would be a sitting duck for floyds jabs and right hand leads. wide decision or late stoppage for floyd.

williams is the only one who could give floyd trouble, he is the only one i can see getting off anything close to his usual amount of punches due to his legs. he became increasingly flat footed as his career progressed but early williams was very light on his feet and with his range he was capable of closing great distance while keeping his hands moving in the process (unlike manny). floyd ofcourse would have no choice but to be in wiliams' range due to his reach advantantage and williams was quick at WW. hes no mummy like margarito, hardly anyone ever managed to get in and out without being clipped against williams. i think floyd would beat him since williams is too easy to hit, but he would get clipped himself on a more regular basis than usual and have a long night keeping williams off him.