Hopkins or Toney - who was better?

[IronDanHamza]

Ok so let me ask you this? Do you agree with Hopkins that Toney was the more talented fighter or do you disagree with that too?

I think that's certainly debatable.

[Johnwoo8686]

I think that's certainly debatable.

That's fair

[stefl14]

The debate in this thread has been great. Hopkins all the way for me. These are literally two of my favorite every fighters, but Toney is so overrated by hardcore fans yet underrated by the media. Toney was a brilliant fighter but he also had many limitations. Everyone always makes excuses for Toney's failings but it's not even close to being true that all his losses were because he didn't train or wasn't motivated. Both are greats, Hopkins is greater. I agree that Hopkins wouldn't compete at heavy, but that doesn't mean Toney is greater it just means that his style (and ridiculously good chin) is better suited to going up in weight.

[stefl14]

Hopkins is good at the basics.
He is good at positioning himself.
He is good at sticking to a well thought out game plan.

However

Hopkins is not as adaptable as Toney. Toney was a master at figurin out opponents and adjusting accordingly. Can't say the same about Hopkins.

Hopkins has nowhere near as vast a repertoire of punches as Toney.
Hopkins is basic....
Just look at Toneys superb combos in his prime....

Hopkins punch power was never very good even at Middle...
Toney hits a lot harder...

Hopkins had to rely a lot on clinchin, head buttin etc because bhop doesn't have the defensive skills to do anything else...
Toney had an excellent defense to match his cast iron chin.

EDIT: Forgot to add that Hopkins was garbage on the inside compared to Toney.

And Didn't you say you weren't sure who was stronger?
Toney is stronger and THAT is not debatable.......





If what you are saying were true Toney wouldn't have the amazing wins he has.....

I mean do you guys really rate Tiberi that highly?
Do you really believe that was the best of Toney that night?

Do you really think drake thadzi is better than Mccallum, Jirov, Nunn, Ruiz etc

Who do you consider braver? Toney Or Hopkins?
Who do you consider tougher?

Why don't you list Toneys weaknesses???
Other than big macs and whoppers...

I can't be bothered with an in depth response right now, but one of Toney's weaknesses was fighting movers.

[IronDanHamza]

Hopkins is good at the basics.
He is good at positioning himself.
He is good at sticking to a well thought out game plan.

However

Hopkins is not as adaptable as Toney. Toney was a master at figurin out opponents and adjusting accordingly. Can't say the same about Hopkins.

Hopkins has nowhere near as vast a repertoire of punches as Toney.
Hopkins is basic....
Just look at Toneys superb combos in his prime....

Hopkins punch power was never very good even at Middle...
Toney hits a lot harder...

Hopkins had to rely a lot on clinchin, head buttin etc because bhop doesn't have the defensive skills to do anything else...
Toney had an excellent defense to match his cast iron chin.

EDIT: Forgot to add that Hopkins was garbage on the inside compared to Toney.

And Didn't you say you weren't sure who was stronger?
Toney is stronger and THAT is not debatable.......





If what you are saying were true Toney wouldn't have the amazing wins he has.....

I mean do you guys really rate Tiberi that highly?
Do you really believe that was the best of Toney that night?

Do you really think drake thadzi is better than Mccallum, Jirov, Nunn, Ruiz etc

Who do you consider braver? Toney Or Hopkins?
Who do you consider tougher?

Why don't you list Toneys weaknesses???
Other than big macs and whoppers...

You simply don't know what's in front of you.

James Toney better at adapting than Hopkins? James Toney a "master" at figuring out opponents? Name me one opponent he figured out.

Toney threw good combos, but he threw them in spurts. He wasn't consistent with them. This is what caused him to get outworked and drop rounds and thus lose/struggle in fights.

I agree Toney hit harder.

Hopkins wasn't "garbage" on the inside compared to Toney but I wouldn't argue with giving Toney the edge there.

Toney's weaknesses;

Poor footwork, can't cut off a ring or fight off the back foot effectively.

Can't make adjustments, not very high ring IQ

Loads up too much on punches often causes him to get tired

Never blocked a right hook to the body in his life

Can't avoid a jab

And finally, you said "he wouldn't have the amazing wins he does" What amazing wins are these?