Originally posted by MDPopescu
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The AlexKid 'questions about punchers, chins, hiprotation etc.' superduper thread.
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Originally posted by Beyonce Bomber View PostMaybe because Tyson knocked Holmes out and Shavers didn't.
Shavers hit harder than Tyson.
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Originally posted by AlexKid View PostTyson took loads of punches to knock Larry unconscious, the final one to his chin, Shavers only needed one punch and it was to the side of the head. He did that against a young prime fast Larry.
Shavers hit harder than Tyson.
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Originally posted by young_robbed View PostHey dummy, you don't think it goes beyond that? Stiverne got stopped by King and went 12 with wilder, you think King is a harder hitter?
The age of Holmes when Tyson KO'd him, matters here. This is pretty basic stuff. Holmes was coming off a long lay off and was old. He would improve in fights vs Mccall holyfield and mercer, but still wasn't even close to the prime version of Holmes which Shavers fought.
Your Stiverne example is garbage, and utterly irrelevant to anything here.
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Originally posted by Beyonce Bomber View PostSo Holmes' chin became shitty for that one fight all of a sudden, then hardened up again for the rest of his career? Pathetic. Holmes' performance can be laid at the feet of the layoff, but that shot which Tyson dropped him with would have always done so.
Your Stiverne example is garbage, and utterly irrelevant to anything here.
Literally nobody here is calling Holmes' chin ****ty. Fighting a monster in Tyson, & coming off a pretty substantial lay off is the reason that Holmes got KO'd so badly by Tyson. Not because he's necessarily a better hitter than Shavers. However, it should be pretty clear that overall Prime Tyson is a better finisher than Shavers, a more accurate puncher, and a quicker one.
By the way - Chins don't get better with age. It doesn't work like that, unless you're George Foreman. Naturally most fighters are easier to knock out as they get older. But after that knock out Holmes trained a lot harder and became a better "old" fighter, it also helped that he didn't face any more hitters like Tyson afterwards.
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Originally posted by young_robbed View PostA right hook (from orthodox stance ) is not the same as an overhand right. Both can be "looping" sure, but they aren't the same. They can come from different angles. Overhand right comes from over the top, the other comes from the side and is obviously is a hook which is a different angle.
All overhand rights can be classed as right hooks but not all right hooks can be classed as overhand rights i.e Benitez - Hope would be just a standard right hook
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Originally posted by young_robbed View PostThe Stiverne example proves that just because King stopped Stiverne, doesn't mean that he's automatically a harder hitter than Wilder, only idiots deal in absolutes. and Sith.
Literally nobody here is calling Holmes' chin ****ty. Fighting a monster in Tyson, & coming off a pretty substantial lay off is the reason that Holmes got KO'd so badly by Tyson. Not because he's necessarily a better hitter than Shavers. However, it should be pretty clear that overall Prime Tyson is a better finisher than Shavers, a more accurate puncher, and a quicker one.
Tyson and Shavers both landed identical punches to Holmes with almost identical results. That's why you can compare them. At best you can theorise that the punch that Shavers dropped Holmes with was at most on par with Tyson's shot, but considering Tyson routinely dropped guys like that and KOed them while Shavers didn't leads one to only one conclusion. And it aint complementary to Shavers.
Originally posted by young_robbed View PostBy the way - Chins don't get better with age. It doesn't work like that, unless you're George Foreman. Naturally most fighters are easier to knock out as they get older. But after that knock out Holmes trained a lot harder and became a better "old" fighter, it also helped that he didn't face any more hitters like Tyson afterwards.
He never fought anyone on the level of Tyson again, but he certainly fought lots of guys who could have hurt him early in his career like Mercer and McCall. Evander was no slouch either, considering his blistering speed and vicious combination punching.
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Originally posted by AlexKid View PostHe made him go unconscious briefly, Tyson landed plenty flush to the side of the head and he couldn't KO larry that way. Oviously Ernie punches harder
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Originally posted by AlexKid View PostTyson took loads of punches to knock Larry unconscious, the final one to his chin, Shavers only needed one punch and it was to the side of the head. He did that against a young prime fast Larry.
Shavers hit harder than Tyson.Last edited by juggernaut666; 03-22-2016, 02:15 PM.
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