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I found this thread I started on the old AOL boxing boards years ago. Thought I'd repost it here for some new opinions.
I've been trying to research which black fighters were around Gene Tunney's era that he could have fought to enhace his historical standing. If Tunney the man was a bigot or racist in anybodies opinion, save it for another thread. This is about Tunney the fighter and the buisness of boxing.
I tried to take Dans advice and looked into black historian Art Rust Jr., but found nothing much about boxing from him (especially the issue we're talking about), most of his historical knowledge seems to be focused on black baseball players so I didn't really find anything usefull. I then looked into Kevin Smith and even took the time to e-mail him and get his opinion on this subject. As of this post he hasn't e-mailed me back. So I went about trying to find some of these fighters and determining which of them were worthy from both the buisness aspect and where they were and what they accomplished as fighters. For a reference I went to Cyber boxing zone and went thru every name on in their "Black dynamite" section. I then narrowed it down to fighter who ranged from middle to Heavyweight. I excluded men who only fought at heavy because I believe the majority of Tunney's HOF work was done at 175. I then narrowed it down further to the years 1922 theu 1925 as these were Gene's peak years at 175 and have come up with a list of colored fighters who, if it were this day and age he probably would have HAD to fight.
Let me start out by saying I agree with Joann about the social climate of the day and Whites being able to make more money fighting other whites. I don't think it was right, but I do believe it 100%. That said, from a buisness stand point Tunney did what he had to do.
From a legacy standpoint, maybe he could have done some things different. Here are the black fighters who were around that time that may or may not have changed Tunneys legend.
Both Eddie Palmer and Sam Langford were excellent fighters who were around Tunneys time. Unfortunately both were at the ends of their respective careers. Had Tunney of fought them he would have had their name recognition but not much else since both had seen better days.
Two more fighters were were Larry Gains and Battling Gahee. Around that time Gains was probably still a little too green to matchup against Tunney, but in 1925 did have a win over a young Max Schmeling.
Battling Gahee was a tough fighter who was said to be a popular sparring partner for "name" fighters, but lost most of his fights whenever he stepped up in competition. In my opinion neither of these guys would have brought Tunney anymore recognition or a payday that he couldn't better fighting a white man.
Jeff Clark was a man that fought some excellent comp. But like Langford and Palmer, he was at the end of his career. Incidently, Clark happened to be Jersey Joe Walcotts uncle.
The absolute one fighter who would have added to Tunney legacy during these years was Kid Norfolk. The man was a terror that took Harry Greb apart in 1921. You would think a Tunney fight would have been a natural, but Norfolk had his stes set on fighting Jack Dempsey. After getting crushed by Harry Wills Norfolk moved back to 175 and fought such fighters as Tiger Flowers, Jamaica kid, Battling Siki and Tommy Gibbons. Norfolk was forced to retire in 1926 due to failing vision, but this may very well have been Tunneys toughest fight at lightheavy.
These were the best names I could find from that era. If anyone has any to add, please do. All in all though I don't think Tunney not fighting them makes him any less a great. With the exception of Norfolk, his white competition was just as good and produced better paydays for him. Was the color line right? Absolutely not. But it was a different time with different circumstances that in my opinion has to be taken into consideration when evaluating the era, fighter and historical standing. Would Tunneys standing in history have been enhanced had he fought any of these men? I don't know. But it certainly couldn't have hurt it. Peace.
I've been trying to research which black fighters were around Gene Tunney's era that he could have fought to enhace his historical standing. If Tunney the man was a bigot or racist in anybodies opinion, save it for another thread. This is about Tunney the fighter and the buisness of boxing.
I tried to take Dans advice and looked into black historian Art Rust Jr., but found nothing much about boxing from him (especially the issue we're talking about), most of his historical knowledge seems to be focused on black baseball players so I didn't really find anything usefull. I then looked into Kevin Smith and even took the time to e-mail him and get his opinion on this subject. As of this post he hasn't e-mailed me back. So I went about trying to find some of these fighters and determining which of them were worthy from both the buisness aspect and where they were and what they accomplished as fighters. For a reference I went to Cyber boxing zone and went thru every name on in their "Black dynamite" section. I then narrowed it down to fighter who ranged from middle to Heavyweight. I excluded men who only fought at heavy because I believe the majority of Tunney's HOF work was done at 175. I then narrowed it down further to the years 1922 theu 1925 as these were Gene's peak years at 175 and have come up with a list of colored fighters who, if it were this day and age he probably would have HAD to fight.
Let me start out by saying I agree with Joann about the social climate of the day and Whites being able to make more money fighting other whites. I don't think it was right, but I do believe it 100%. That said, from a buisness stand point Tunney did what he had to do.
From a legacy standpoint, maybe he could have done some things different. Here are the black fighters who were around that time that may or may not have changed Tunneys legend.
Both Eddie Palmer and Sam Langford were excellent fighters who were around Tunneys time. Unfortunately both were at the ends of their respective careers. Had Tunney of fought them he would have had their name recognition but not much else since both had seen better days.
Two more fighters were were Larry Gains and Battling Gahee. Around that time Gains was probably still a little too green to matchup against Tunney, but in 1925 did have a win over a young Max Schmeling.
Battling Gahee was a tough fighter who was said to be a popular sparring partner for "name" fighters, but lost most of his fights whenever he stepped up in competition. In my opinion neither of these guys would have brought Tunney anymore recognition or a payday that he couldn't better fighting a white man.
Jeff Clark was a man that fought some excellent comp. But like Langford and Palmer, he was at the end of his career. Incidently, Clark happened to be Jersey Joe Walcotts uncle.
The absolute one fighter who would have added to Tunney legacy during these years was Kid Norfolk. The man was a terror that took Harry Greb apart in 1921. You would think a Tunney fight would have been a natural, but Norfolk had his stes set on fighting Jack Dempsey. After getting crushed by Harry Wills Norfolk moved back to 175 and fought such fighters as Tiger Flowers, Jamaica kid, Battling Siki and Tommy Gibbons. Norfolk was forced to retire in 1926 due to failing vision, but this may very well have been Tunneys toughest fight at lightheavy.
These were the best names I could find from that era. If anyone has any to add, please do. All in all though I don't think Tunney not fighting them makes him any less a great. With the exception of Norfolk, his white competition was just as good and produced better paydays for him. Was the color line right? Absolutely not. But it was a different time with different circumstances that in my opinion has to be taken into consideration when evaluating the era, fighter and historical standing. Would Tunneys standing in history have been enhanced had he fought any of these men? I don't know. But it certainly couldn't have hurt it. Peace.
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