where will Cooto rank ifbhe beats Martinez?

[BafanaBafana]

This is a very difficult question because NOBODY has a top 150 ATG list and it's difficult to compare modern greats w/old greats...

A better question would be 'Where would Cotto rank among the ATG P.R. fighters if he beat Martinez for the lineal 160 title?'

Carlos Ortiz, Wilfred Benitez, Felix Trinidad, Wilfredo Gomez, Hector Camacho, Edwin Rosario, Wilfredo Vazquez, Jose Torres, Esteban DeJesus, Samuel Serrano, Juan LaPorte, Edwin Rosario, Ivan Calderon, etc.

[JAB5239]

I only said 1-2 spots, because I really don't know how the rankings work.

In my mind, a Martinez win is huge for Cotto, but then what? I'd have to know who he's behind, in order to properly rank him.

What if he's right behind a guy like Oscar (Ex.)? Does a Martinez win really put him past Oscar?

I think he's a good ways behind Oscar. Probably outside the top 100 in my opinion or just inside of it. Thats no slight on him, but there have been a lot of great fighters in history.

[BUNGALOWS]

I think he's a good ways behind Oscar. Probably outside the top 100 in my opinion or just inside of it. Thats no slight on him, but there have been a lot of great fighters in history.

Yep. Nothing Cotto does can even touch Oscar's win over a prime WW Tito. NOTHING.

[JAB5239]

This is a very difficult question because NOBODY has a top 150 ATG list and it's difficult to compare modern greats w/old greats...

A better question would be 'Where would Cotto rank among the ATG P.R. fighters if he beat Martinez for the lineal 160 title?'

Carlos Ortiz, Wilfred Benitez, Felix Trinidad, Wilfredo Gomez, Hector Camacho, Edwin Rosario, Wilfredo Vazquez, Jose Torres, Esteban DeJesus, Samuel Serrano, Juan LaPorte, Edwin Rosario, Ivan Calderon, etc.

I actually like your question better. For me he'd only be behind Gomez, Ortiz, Trinidad and possibly DeJesus.

[BafanaBafana]

I think this is a respectable list (Apr. 2009), you can draw your own conclusions:

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Sam Langford
5. Harry Greb
6. Joe Louis
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Willie Pep
9. Roberto Duran
10. Archie Moore

11. Benny Leonard
12. Ray Leonard
13. Pernell Whitaker
14. Bob Fitzsimmons
15. Joe Gans
16. Carlos Monzon
17. Barney Ross
18. Jack Johnson
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Jimmy Wilde

21. Mickey Walker
22. Sandy Saddler
23. Manny Pacquiao
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Alexis Arguello
26. Rocky Marciano
27. Gene Tunney
28. Roy Jones Jr
29. Lennox Lewis
30. Evander Holyfield

31. Bernard Hopkins
32. Barbados Joe Walcott
33. Eder Jofre
34. Tony Canzoneri
35. Emile Griffith
36. Jack Dempsey
37. Charley Burley
38. Kid Gavilan
39. Salvador Sanchez
40. Ike Williams


41. Larry Holmes
42. Floyd Mayweather Jr
43. Thomas Hearns
44. Jimmy McLarnin
45. Stanley Ketchel
46. Tommy Loughran
47. Michael Spinks
48. Ruben Olivares
49. Jose Napoles
50. Fighting Harada

51. Wilfredo Gomez
52. Carlos Ortiz
53. Dick Tiger
54. Panama Al Brown
55. Tiger Flowers
56. Kid Chocolate
57. Bob Foster
58. Billy Conn
59. George Foreman
60. Joe Frazier

61. Aaron Pryor
62. Jake LaMotta
63. Abe Attel
64. Carmen Basilio
65. Manuel Ortiz
66. Terry McGovern
67. Tommy Ryan
68. Ricardo Lopez
69. Jim Jeffries
70. Jack Britton

71. Ted Kid Lewis
72. Carlos Zarate
73. Wilfred Benitez
74. Oscar De La Hoya
75. Felix Trinidad
76. Shane Mosley
77. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
78. Pancho Villa
79. Azumah Nelson
80. Erik Morales

81. Juan Manuel Marquez
82. Mike Tyson
83. Pascual Perez
84. Marco Antonio Barrera
85. Joe Brown
86. Joe Calzaghe
87. Harry Wills
88. Miguel Canto
89. Marcel Cerdan
90. Flash Elorde

91. Holman Williams
92. John Dundee
93. Mike McCallum
94. Antonio Cervantes
95. Nicolino Locche
96. George Dixon
97. Sonny Liston
98. Packey McFarland
99. Khaosai Galaxy
100. Benny Lynch

101. Freddie Welsh
102. Jimmy Bivins
103. Harold Johnson
104. Bob Montgomery
105. Vicente Saldivar
106. Beau Jack
107. Maxie Rosenbloom
108. Gene Fullmer
109. Eusebio Pedroza
110. Lloyd Marshall

111. Lou Ambers
112. Battling Nelson
113. James Toney
114. Jim Driscoll
115. Jeff Fenech
116. Johnny Kilbane
117. Pete Herman
118. Kosta Tszyu
119. Freddie Miller
120. Nino Benvenuti

121. Georges Carpentier
122. Ken Buchanan
123. Duilio Loi
124. Winky Wright
125. Tommy Gibbons
126. Philidelphia Jack O'Brien
127. Jack Kid Berg
128. Non Pareil Jack Dempsey
129. Jack Blackburn
130. Johnny Tapia

[BUNGALOWS]

I think this is a respectable list (Apr. 2009), you can draw your own conclusions:

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Sam Langford
5. Harry Greb
6. Joe Louis
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Willie Pep
9. Roberto Duran
10. Archie Moore

11. Benny Leonard
12. Ray Leonard
13. Pernell Whitaker
14. Bob Fitzsimmons
15. Joe Gans
16. Carlos Monzon
17. Barney Ross
18. Jack Johnson
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Jimmy Wilde

21. Mickey Walker
22. Sandy Saddler
23. Manny Pacquiao
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Alexis Arguello
26. Rocky Marciano
27. Gene Tunney
28. Roy Jones Jr
29. Lennox Lewis
30. Evander Holyfield

31. Bernard Hopkins
32. Barbados Joe Walcott
33. Eder Jofre
34. Tony Canzoneri
35. Emile Griffith
36. Jack Dempsey
37. Charley Burley
38. Kid Gavilan
39. Salvador Sanchez
40. Ike Williams


41. Larry Holmes
42. Floyd Mayweather Jr
43. Thomas Hearns
44. Jimmy McLarnin
45. Stanley Ketchel
46. Tommy Loughran
47. Michael Spinks
48. Ruben Olivares
49. Jose Napoles
50. Fighting Harada

51. Wilfredo Gomez
52. Carlos Ortiz
53. Dick Tiger
54. Panama Al Brown
55. Tiger Flowers
56. Kid Chocolate
57. Bob Foster
58. Billy Conn
59. George Foreman
60. Joe Frazier

61. Aaron Pryor
62. Jake LaMotta
63. Abe Attel
64. Carmen Basilio
65. Manuel Ortiz
66. Terry McGovern
67. Tommy Ryan
68. Ricardo Lopez
69. Jim Jeffries
70. Jack Britton

71. Ted Kid Lewis
72. Carlos Zarate
73. Wilfred Benitez
74. Oscar De La Hoya
75. Felix Trinidad
76. Shane Mosley
77. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
78. Pancho Villa
79. Azumah Nelson
80. Erik Morales

81. Juan Manuel Marquez
82. Mike Tyson
83. Pascual Perez
84. Marco Antonio Barrera
85. Joe Brown
86. Joe Calzaghe
87. Harry Wills
88. Miguel Canto
89. Marcel Cerdan
90. Flash Elorde

91. Holman Williams
92. John Dundee
93. Mike McCallum
94. Antonio Cervantes
95. Nicolino Locche
96. George Dixon
97. Sonny Liston
98. Packey McFarland
99. Khaosai Galaxy
100. Benny Lynch

101. Freddie Welsh
102. Jimmy Bivins
103. Harold Johnson
104. Bob Montgomery
105. Vicente Saldivar
106. Beau Jack
107. Maxie Rosenbloom
108. Gene Fullmer
109. Eusebio Pedroza
110. Lloyd Marshall

111. Lou Ambers
112. Battling Nelson
113. James Toney
114. Jim Driscoll
115. Jeff Fenech
116. Johnny Kilbane
117. Pete Herman
118. Kosta Tszyu
119. Freddie Miller
120. Nino Benvenuti

121. Georges Carpentier
122. Ken Buchanan
123. Duilio Loi
124. Winky Wright
125. Tommy Gibbons
126. Philidelphia Jack O'Brien
127. Jack Kid Berg
128. Non Pareil Jack Dempsey
129. Jack Blackburn
130. Johnny Tapia

Awesome list! WOW!

[El Angel]

He'll finally get the recognition as an ATG and at least a top 100 fighter. Lineal MW champ at his age at his size off the hard losses he's had? That's what legends are made of. I vote top 100 because I believe that's where he'll be ranked. Personally I think he's going to end up higher than that when all is said and done doe.

[MikeRo1972]

Yep. Nothing Cotto does can even touch Oscar's win over a prime WW Tito. NOTHING.

Umm.... Oscar lost that fight. Matter of fact the idiot gave that fight away. On the scorecards and in the ring.

[BUNGALOWS]

Umm.... Oscar lost that fight. Matter of fact the idiot gave that fight away. On the scorecards and in the ring.

I bet you anything, Oscar's "loss" propelled him higher than it did for Tito's "win".

[JAB5239]

This is a cherry pick. Martinez has looked like sht shouldnt be the champ is coming of surgery and a long layoff. And to top it off their will probably be a catchweight. If cotto cant beat this version of martinez he sucks

Hes the lineal middleweight champion. Not his best, but neither is Cotto.