Where do you rank Naseem Hamed all-time?

[mickey malone]

I understand your argument because I use a similar excuse for Tyson whenever I have the best heavyweight ever argument.

However, Hamed never did anything in any of his fights at any point in his career that was really impressive. If you look at early fights, like the Andy Bloomer bout, his style was basically an unperfected version of what it was in 2002. He did terribly sloppy lunge punches, sometimes with two fists. His face was always exposed and he threw himself off balance because the only defense tactic he ever used was lunging backwards while keeping his feet planted, throwing him even more off balance. Any great boxer would see these mistakes on film, anticipate his moves and pick him apart - exactly the way Barrera did.

Again I understand your argument but if you look at all the great boxers in boxing history, you won't find any greats that fought like him. His form and style of fighting was terrible. Everybody knows the most important job for any manager with a new fighter is having the ability to know your fighter and pick smart fights for him early on. The fact that he kept his record so pretty for so long just shows that he had a wonderful manager who knew how to pick his fights for him.

He put on a hell of a show though. I gotta admit I watched all of his fights live and enjoyed every entrance.

Sure, the lunging backwards and forwards went to a new level under Saurez, but if you take a look at the Robinson and Vazquez fights, Hamed's defensive movements were nothing short of brilliant.. He made them both miss with everything they threw, and took them out when he decided.. Vazquez especially, I find it difficult to remeber a more one sided title fight..
Granted, Barrera's a better fighter than Vazquez, and i take on board what you say about good management, this being the case with Barrera, as they could'nt have got Hamed at a better time..
Once again, i'm not taking anything away from him, he boxed the perfect fight, making Hamed look a bit like a floundering oxygen thief, but this was the celebrity showman Hamed, who'd become spoiled, bored and unmotivated..
I found his entrances quite embarrassing, especially all that magic carpet, pray to Allah charade just b4 getting his ass whooped..

[CarlosG815]

i take on board what you say about good management, this being the case with Barrera, as they could'nt have got Hamed at a better time..

I don't remember Barrera's camp ever ducking Hamed at any point. Hamed had to take the fight because he was being touted as the top p4p fighter at the time and it was time to face Barrera or Morales. He picked Barrera because he thought he had a better chance against him. I don't think Hamed could have beat Barrera at any point in his career and there is no evidence in any of his fights that show that he could.

And I never noticed any transition in his unorthodox circus type boxing style. He looked just as bad in the Vasquez fight as he did in all the rest ???

[mickey malone]

I don't remember Barrera's camp ever ducking Hamed at any point. Hamed had to take the fight because he was being touted as the top p4p fighter at the time and it was time to face Barrera or Morales. He picked Barrera because he thought he had a better chance against him. I don't think Hamed could have beat Barrera at any point in his career and there is no evidence in any of his fights that show that he could.

And I never noticed any transition in his unorthodox circus type boxing style. He looked just as bad in the Vasquez fight as he did in all the rest ???

Have to disagree with regard to Vazquez.. Hamed's punch and not be punched skills were superb in that fight.. I don't know how to download vids, but you need to take a look at the last 2 rounds as Hamed closes off the ring and batters him from all sorts of peculiar angles.. Vazquez does'nt know what time of day it is!

Sure, i'd edge in favour of both Morales and Barrera (DC's) prime for prime, but if anyone could cause an upset, Hamed's ya man.. Under Ingle's guidence, he'd have one hell of a punchers chance, as i don't envisage either being able to KO him..

With ref to some of his opponents, let's assess what they were doing leading up to their fights with Naz.. I'll chose some of his better performances against 4 world champs, one European champ and 1 contender..
The most relevent being Vazquez, a 2 weight world champ (SBW & FW) who'd beaten the likes of Orlando Canizales, Genaro Rios, Freddie Cruz and Thierry Jacob 3 times.. He'd also KO'd Eloy Rojas, Manuel Mendoza and Raul Perez.. Earlier in his career, he'd dropped razor tight DC's to Khaokor Galaxy and Miguel 'happy' Lora.. A mug he was not..
Furthermore, he went on to win 6 from 7 of his last fights, 4 of them by KO, and retired with a record of 50-7-2 (37KO).. Vazquez can rightly be considered a very good fighter.

Hamed's best outing was in my opinion, the night he won the WBO title from Steve Robinson.. He switch hit from all angles & threw combo's in bunches, to leave poor old Stevo in right bloody mess.. Up until then, his career had taken off & he looked like being around for a very long time.. Much like Freddie Pendleton, he was a late developer who'd lost a lot of close DC's to a lot of good fighters, but had stepped in as a substitute to shock John Davison to become WBO champion & with a new lease of life was now on his 8th defense of the title.. Included in the previous 7, he'd strung together KO victories over 3 weight champ, Duke McKenzie, former WBC champ Paul Hodkinson, aswell as comfortable DC's over Freddie Cruz and Colin McMillan from whom he'd won the title.. No one ever did to Robinson what Hamed did to him..

Billy Hardy then beat Robinson for the Euro crown, and challenged Hamed who swatted him like a fly in less than a minute..
When Kevin Kelley stepped up to the plate, he was coming off a KO victory over the very useful Derrick 'smoke' Gainer.. He'd also had recent victories over former world champs, Jesse Benavides, Louisito Espinosa aswell as a draw with Clarence 'bones' Adams..
Manuel Medina's been in with everyone, and done pretty well too.. I think he's won & lost about 5 different world titles now, but nevertheless he's one tough SOB, and Naz stopped him in the 11th while coming down with flu..
Augie Sanchez was a very risky fight.. Although he was one of the few unaccomplished fighters on the list, he had 23 KO's in 24 fights including KO7 of a faded Jorge Paez and was rising fast and dangerously.. Hamed put him in hospital after 4 brutal rounds..

Hate to say it, but i do think that you undervalue him as a fighter..

[JAB5239]

Have to disagree with regard to Vazquez.. Hamed's punch and not be punched skills were superb in that fight.. I don't know how to download vids, but you need to take a look at the last 2 rounds as Hamed closes off the ring and batters him from all sorts of peculiar angles.. Vazquez does'nt know what time of day it is!

Sure, i'd edge in favour of both Morales and Barrera (DC's) prime for prime, but if anyone could cause an upset, Hamed's ya man.. Under Ingle's guidence, he'd have one hell of a punchers chance, as i don't envisage either being able to KO him..

With ref to some of his opponents, let's assess what they were doing leading up to their fights with Naz.. I'll chose some of his better performances against 4 world champs, one European champ and 1 contender..
The most relevent being Vazquez, a 2 weight world champ (SBW & FW) who'd beaten the likes of Orlando Canizales, Genaro Rios, Freddie Cruz and Thierry Jacob 3 times.. He'd also KO'd Eloy Rojas, Manuel Mendoza and Raul Perez.. Earlier in his career, he'd dropped razor tight DC's to Khaokor Galaxy and Miguel 'happy' Lora.. A mug he was not..
Furthermore, he went on to win 6 from 7 of his last fights, 4 of them by KO, and retired with a record of 50-7-2 (37KO).. Vazquez can rightly be considered a very good fighter.

Hamed's best outing was in my opinion, the night he won the WBO title from Steve Robinson.. He switch hit from all angles & threw combo's in bunches, to leave poor old Stevo in right bloody mess.. Up until then, his career had taken off & he looked like being around for a very long time.. Much like Freddie Pendleton, he was a late developer who'd lost a lot of close DC's to a lot of good fighters, but had stepped in as a substitute to shock John Davison to become WBO champion & with a new lease of life was now on his 8th defense of the title.. Included in the previous 7, he'd strung together KO victories over 3 weight champ, Duke McKenzie, former WBC champ Paul Hodkinson, aswell as comfortable DC's over Freddie Cruz and Colin McMillan from whom he'd won the title.. No one ever did to Robinson what Hamed did to him..

Billy Hardy then beat Robinson for the Euro crown, and challenged Hamed who swatted him like a fly in less than a minute..
When Kevin Kelley stepped up to the plate, he was coming off a KO victory over the very useful Derrick 'smoke' Gainer.. He'd also had recent victories over former world champs, Jesse Benavides, Louisito Espinosa aswell as a draw with Clarence 'bones' Adams..
Manuel Medina's been in with everyone, and done pretty well too.. I think he's won & lost about 5 different world titles now, but nevertheless he's one tough SOB, and Naz stopped him in the 11th while coming down with flu..
Augie Sanchez was a very risky fight.. Although he was one of the few unaccomplished fighters on the list, he had 23 KO's in 24 fights including KO7 of a faded Jorge Paez and was rising fast and dangerously.. Hamed put him in hospital after 4 brutal rounds..

Hate to say it, but i do think that you undervalue him as a fighter..

Excellent post Mick!

[The_Demon]

Have to disagree with regard to Vazquez.. Hamed's punch and not be punched skills were superb in that fight.. I don't know how to download vids, but you need to take a look at the last 2 rounds as Hamed closes off the ring and batters him from all sorts of peculiar angles.. Vazquez does'nt know what time of day it is!

Sure, i'd edge in favour of both Morales and Barrera (DC's) prime for prime, but if anyone could cause an upset, Hamed's ya man.. Under Ingle's guidence, he'd have one hell of a punchers chance, as i don't envisage either being able to KO him..

With ref to some of his opponents, let's assess what they were doing leading up to their fights with Naz.. I'll chose some of his better performances against 4 world champs, one European champ and 1 contender..
The most relevent being Vazquez, a 2 weight world champ (SBW & FW) who'd beaten the likes of Orlando Canizales, Genaro Rios, Freddie Cruz and Thierry Jacob 3 times.. He'd also KO'd Eloy Rojas, Manuel Mendoza and Raul Perez.. Earlier in his career, he'd dropped razor tight DC's to Khaokor Galaxy and Miguel 'happy' Lora.. A mug he was not..
Furthermore, he went on to win 6 from 7 of his last fights, 4 of them by KO, and retired with a record of 50-7-2 (37KO).. Vazquez can rightly be considered a very good fighter.

Hamed's best outing was in my opinion, the night he won the WBO title from Steve Robinson.. He switch hit from all angles & threw combo's in bunches, to leave poor old Stevo in right bloody mess.. Up until then, his career had taken off & he looked like being around for a very long time.. Much like Freddie Pendleton, he was a late developer who'd lost a lot of close DC's to a lot of good fighters, but had stepped in as a substitute to shock John Davison to become WBO champion & with a new lease of life was now on his 8th defense of the title.. Included in the previous 7, he'd strung together KO victories over 3 weight champ, Duke McKenzie, former WBC champ Paul Hodkinson, aswell as comfortable DC's over Freddie Cruz and Colin McMillan from whom he'd won the title.. No one ever did to Robinson what Hamed did to him..

Billy Hardy then beat Robinson for the Euro crown, and challenged Hamed who swatted him like a fly in less than a minute..
When Kevin Kelley stepped up to the plate, he was coming off a KO victory over the very useful Derrick 'smoke' Gainer.. He'd also had recent victories over former world champs, Jesse Benavides, Louisito Espinosa aswell as a draw with Clarence 'bones' Adams..
Manuel Medina's been in with everyone, and done pretty well too.. I think he's won & lost about 5 different world titles now, but nevertheless he's one tough SOB, and Naz stopped him in the 11th while coming down with flu..
Augie Sanchez was a very risky fight.. Although he was one of the few unaccomplished fighters on the list, he had 23 KO's in 24 fights including KO7 of a faded Jorge Paez and was rising fast and dangerously.. Hamed put him in hospital after 4 brutal rounds..

Hate to say it, but i do think that you undervalue him as a fighter..

another great post.hes not the only poster who undervalues hamed as fighter,its hard too find people that give him his dues for his achievements.thankfully we have someone who knows their stuff

[lyrical]

Brendan Ingle discovered Hamed while he was waiting in traffic adjacent to a school playground, when he noticed this tiny little Kid steaming into 4 or 5 bigger kids that were attempting to bully him.. Hamed was 7 years old at the time, and so impressed was Ingle, he went in to see the headmaster, who in turn introduced him to Hameds parents, and the story began..

Hamed himself has said that this story was BS and something Ingle made up for the media,

[mickey malone]

Hamed himself has said that this story was BS and something Ingle made up for the media,

Interesting.. Why would he want to do that?

[CarlosG815]

I'm not discrediting Mickey's boxing knowledge. He's obviously been around and knows his stuff, but regarding Prince, it's strictly opinion.

You guys siding with Mickey, I can't help but think that you're siding with him simply because it's coming from him.

If you can watch Naseem in any fights at any point in his career and say that I'm overlooking him for how good he was is bull****. Watch his fights and his terrible style of fighting, which is well known, and make an opinion for yourself, not just based on what other ppl write.

[JAB5239]

I'm not discrediting Mickey's boxing knowledge. He's obviously been around and knows his stuff, but regarding Prince, it's strictly opinion.

You guys siding with Mickey, I can't help but think that you're siding with him simply because it's coming from him.

If you can watch Naseem in any fights at any point in his career and say that I'm overlooking him for how good he was is bull****. Watch his fights and his terrible style of fighting, which is well known, and make an opinion for yourself, not just based on what other ppl write.

His style of fighting was actually unique and effective because of his speed and power.

[mickey malone]

I'm not discrediting Mickey's boxing knowledge. He's obviously been around and knows his stuff, but regarding Prince, it's strictly opinion.

You guys siding with Mickey, I can't help but think that you're siding with him simply because it's coming from him.

If you can watch Naseem in any fights at any point in his career and say that I'm overlooking him for how good he was is bull****. Watch his fights and his terrible style of fighting, which is well known, and make an opinion for yourself, not just based on what other ppl write.

Nah... These guys don't always agree with me, and visa versa..
If they did, I'd probably get bored & stop contributing..
You're right about it all being down to opinion, but the majority of boxing historians are of the opinion, that he was an exceptional talent..

I fully understand that he is'nt everyone's cup of tea, and for the boxing purist, he'd be pretty painful to watch, what with so many 'text book' flaws on display.. But in truth, he impressively KO'd 32 out of 36, mainly from angles that have'nt been attempted before..
It's just incredibly annoying, that he threw it all away.. Can you imagine what Chris Byrd would have done with George Foreman's power?, because, until the ego took over, that's exactly what Hamed equated to as a FW.. A strong chinned, unorthodox fighter who relied heavily on reflexes..

You have'nt overlooked him, you've undervalued him instead.. I mean how can you overlook or undervalue a fighter who spent 5 years of a boxing fans life, completely obliterrating everyone in Great Britain, Europe and the Commonwealth (only Vincenzo Belcastro lasting 12, but losing nearly every round) Then, off to pick up 3 world titles and KO six world champions while remaining active and unbeaten for a further 5 years.. A lot of these fighters had very experienced heads on their shoulders, but they all had one thing in common when it came to Hamed.. They did'nt have the foggiest idea on how to beat him, or a cat in hell's chance of actually doing it..
Even on the odd occasion when it did go the DC, it'd be a landslide majority, so to say he had a **** boxing style is 'one track' delusional..
Here's his record as a multiple titlist: 16-1-0 (14KO's).. These are the facts, and the reasons why you're a bit out numbered here, cos these lads will soon pull me up if the old heart starts ruling the head (again lol)..