Why So Much Praise For The "If Only" Fighters: (Toney, Judah, Khan, etc.)

[robertzimmerman]

Overrated how? One of the longest middleweight streaks ever, wins over legitimate atgs, skillful, smart, resilient, possibly a top 3 all time chin, lineal middleweight champ and 2 or 3 time lineal light heavyweight champ often beating guys 10-15 years younger than him.

What more do you want from a fighter?

I think he's overrated too, although I've got to respect his great longevity.

First off, he was never a natural MW. He made incredible sacrifices both mentally and physically to remain at MW, when he could have comfortably fought at SMW or LHW which were stronger divisions. He's 6'1, with a 75" reach, and he had a size advantage over almost all of his MW opposition.

He held his IBF belt for 6 years until King's MW tournament, and then he remained at MW for a further 5 years, even after he'd unified. Whilst he was there, he turned down a huge rematch with Roy, despite running off his mouth.

In my honest opinion, he only moved up to fight Tarver when he'd got nothing to lose and everything to gain. He also had nowhere to go after back to back defeats against Taylor.

When he fought Calzaghe in 2008, he admitted that he could have moved up years earlier had he have wanted to, but he didn't want to give up his advantages.

Whilst he deserves enormous credit for fighting guys like Tarver, Dawson, Calzaghe and Kovalev etc at an advanced age, he had no intentions of fighting guys of that calibre when he was younger.

He's supposedly a tough guy from the streets of Philly, yet he pathetically rolled around the floor and tried to get fighters disqualified when things weren't going his way.

His best wins are against fighters who had their best success at lower weights.

Yes, he's a legend, but when you strip everything down, his career isn't as good as how it first appears.

[robertzimmerman]

Best quality wins in the last 30 years? Michael Nunn is not even a HOF'er.

And he was schooling Toney for most of that fight before the stoppage came.

Michael Nunn was regarded as one of the best fighters on the planet in 1991.

It was a great win, before Nunn lost his way with drugs etc.

[IronDanHamza]

Michael Nunn was regarded as one of the best fighters on the planet in 1991.

It was a great win, before Nunn lost his way with drugs etc.

And?

Mark Johnson, Junior Jones, Winky Wright, Shane Mosley, Nonito Donaire, etc etc etc all considered one of the best fighters on the planet at one point or another.

None of the above are great fighters.

Micheal Nunn was NOT a great fighter. Simple as that.

[IronDanHamza]

We don't care what you think.

You are completely biased when it comes to James Toney.

Speak for yourself not everyone else.

Biased or telling the truth? Either or.

[robertzimmerman]

And?

Mark Johnson, Junior Jones, Winky Wright, Shane Mosley, Nonito Donaire, etc etc etc all considered one of the best fighters on the planet at one point or another.

None of the above are great fighters.

Micheal Nunn was NOT a great fighter. Simple as that.

Michael Nunn wasn't a great fighter when James beat him in 91?

Okay.

[robertzimmerman]

Speak for yourself not everyone else.

Biased or telling the truth? Either or.

Everyone who knows you knows you're biased when it comes to James.

Your thread on the History section proves that.

[IronDanHamza]

Michael Nunn wasn't a great fighter when James beat him in 91?

Okay.

Micheal Nunn isn't, wasn't and will never be a great fighter. Fact.

Highly ranked in 1991, had a lot of potential, had a lot of hype, and never fulfilled it.

[IronDanHamza]

Everyone who knows you knows you're biased when it comes to James.

Your thread on the History section proves that.

I speak the truth. No more, no less.

Don't like it, don't quote me.

[robertzimmerman]

Fact?

Ha!

Whatever. I can't be bothered with you. I'll let someone else engage you.

[Combat Talk Radio]

If only James Toney was more disciplined, he would be one of the greatest fighters of all time.

If Only Zab Judah wasn't a mental midget, he would have been an all time great fighter.

If only Amir Khan can avoid the big punch for 12 rounds, he would have won.


These types of sayings happen so much that people actually start to believe the bull****. Why is at that these fighters losses get written off as "mental lapses" rather than flaws in their game? Do people actually watch the fights or do they just repeat what they hear on an Ellie Sechback video?

When you look at James Toney's fights, he excelled against fighters that came to him. His performances against Iran Barkley, Evander Holyfield, John Ruiz, Samuel Peter (yes he was robbed), Vassily Jirov were magical. But when he fought guys that showed a little movement, had an effective jab and made him lead, he wasn't so great. It took him 24 rounds and he still couldn't figure out Montell Griffin and often struggled with below average opposition.

Zab Judah had a combination of power, handspeed and timing that made even the most knowledgeable boxing heads drink the Kool-aid at times. But he lost every big fight he was in. He looked the part at times and was the last undisputed welterweight champion which is a great accomplishment. But he wasn't a very smart fighter and it showed every time he stepped up in class.

And Amir Khan is the funniest of the bunch. People fall in love with his handspeed but ignore how he backs up in straight lines and is as good as useless on the inside. But when he loses, it's always "if only his chin held up". There's not many fighters that would remain standing after a lot of those shots that KO'd Amir Khan.

I'm not questioning the talent of these fighters. They are all world class fighters, became unified champions and had tremendous accomplishments. Respect to all of them.

But can we stop pretending that their losses weren't due to anything other than being flawed fighters? And accept them for what they are.

You forgot one.

If only Manny Pacquiao had two good arms, his painkiller shot, Alex Ariza shakes, his choice of venue (Philippines), his choice of judges, and a time machine bring them back to 2009-2010....he could have beaten TBE. If he stay in front of him, of course.


Then I agree 100% with your post.