Cus D Amato the greatest and smartest boxing trainer in history?

[Daddy T]

D'Amato also possessed an unhealthy level of suspision that often grew into outright paranoia. This had a negative influence on both Patterson and Tyson, but to what degree it's difficult to know.

His personal crusade against MSG, the International Boxing Club, Jim Norris and Frankie Carbo meant that a lot of his fighters wouldn't get the fights they wanted. Patterson left him and Torres had to change manager to get his title shot. A few other promising careers dried up.

From 1959 he didn't hold a managers license or work the corner of any of his fighters. He had his managers and seconds license revoked after it was alleged that he brought in Fat Tony Salerno as a money man for a proposed Patterson-Johansson rematch.

if anything his 'personal crusade' against scum like carbo etc shows what a good, honorable and brave guy cus was and should not be considered as a negative against him.

[- Ram Raid -]

if anything his 'personal crusade' against scum like carbo etc shows what a good, honorable and brave guy cus was and should not be considered as a negative against him.

Interestingly, the issue isn't quite so clear cut.

He projected an image of being beyond the corrupt influences of the IBC partly as a pretext to keep Patterson from stepping through the ropes against the likes of Machen, Folley and Liston who were all IBC controlled.

Cus was well aware of Patterson's limitations and didn't want any part of the above fighters (it was Patterson that insisted on the Liston bouts, after which he and Cus parted ways). He was a shrewd operator, the image he constructed added to his legacy and was a readymade justification for matching Patterson against lesser opponents like Brian London and Tom McNeeley.

I'm not saying that his issues with the IBC and Frankie Carbo didn't go beyond merely protecting his own fighter because they did, but it wasn't a moral stand against corruption per se.

D' Amato was involved with plenty of underworld figures who had their fingers in boxing. 'Fat Tony' Salerno would later become the boss (or front boss) of the Genovese crime family.

For their first fight, Cus stipulated that in order to get his shot Johansson had to sign Harry Davidson as his manager and hand over 10% of his earnings for the next five years. Davidson ran a bookmaking operation in Brooklyn, was a friend of Cus' and had helped finance the Gramercy Gym. It was only the intervention of the New York State Athletic Commission that stopped this from going through by revoking Davidson and D' Amato's licenses.

I don't say this in any way to try and diminish D' Amato, just to offer a more balanced perspective. Real life legends don't have to live up to DC and Marvel caricatures. Boxing is one of the most corrupt sports on the planet, and Cus operated at a time that is generally viewed as the most corrupt in its history. He was a complex and fascinating character.

[Anthony342]

An underrated trainer who I really like is Joe Goossen. If he got the type of talent that Dundee did then he would be way more famous.

The last trainer I would ever use is Teddy Atlas. He knows more than most trainers, but is an egomaniac and a total control freak.

Really? Never knew that, because I only saw him working with Michael Moorer and later heard he worked with Tyson early on. I wouldn't train with him because he seems like too much of a ball buster.

[bose]

great philosopher

[Scott9945]

Really? Never knew that, because I only saw him working with Michael Moorer and later heard he worked with Tyson early on. I wouldn't train with him because he seems like too much of a ball buster.

Atlas has a history of getting into squabbles with his fighters, sometimes even physical. Instead of polishing off some rough edges, Teddy has to reinvent everything. I've seen most of Alexander Povetkin's career, and imo he was a better fighter before Atlas trained him.

[rightsideup]

Atlas has a history of getting into squabbles with his fighters, sometimes even physical. Instead of polishing off some rough edges, Teddy has to reinvent everything. I've seen most of Alexander Povetkin's career, and imo he was a better fighter before Atlas trained him.

Another example of Teddies poor relationships is with Donny Lalonde. Donny fired teddy just before the big leonard payday.

[- Ram Raid -]

Another example of Teddies poor relationships is with Donny Lalonde. Donny fired teddy just before the big leonard payday.

Atlas seems like a straight up guy who wont get involved in boxings b*ll**** and back-stabbing, so he pays the price. I may be wrong though.

The LaLonde situation came about when Donny's manager Dave Wolfe was taken before a hearing by another of his fighters, Donnie Poole, who wanted out of his contract 'cause he felt Wolfe was screwing him.

Wolfe asked Teddy to stand as a witness which he relutantly agreed to. When Wolfe's lawyer tried to get Atlas to lie and agree that the real issue was that Poole had asked Wolfe to get him drugs and Wolfe had refused, Teddy wouldn't go with it, and blew up at the lawyer in typical Atlas fashion. (Poole was addicted to the painkiller Percocet. He'd fractured his knee cap playing ice-hockey when he was younger, but that had nothing to do with the dispute.)

He knew then that Wolfe was gonna get rid of him, which was easy enough. To Atlas a man's word should be good enough so he didn't have a contract with Lalonde plus Wolfe was paying the fighter 200 dollars a week expenses plus an apartment. When forced to make a choice he stayed with his manager who then brought Tommy Gallagher in.

For some reason I'm under the impression that Ray Corso is familiar with Atlas? If he is then he could give us more info on the kind of guy he is.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

No way....

total troll thread,,,

has to be the great Norman Stone