squats with heavy weights good for boxing

[#1Assassin]

Heavy weight lifting if performed correctly - around 70-80% of one rep max for 3-5 reps does not harm speed at all as long as the eccentric portion of the rep is performed explosively.

Maximal strength training with heavy weights does harm speed, as has been proven by scientiest Yuri Verkhoshansky.

It's all about prioritising, explosive movements such as cleans, snatches and squats with an explosive eccentric contraction will be beneficial to boxers. I'll quote the article I so often quote on here.

''5. Basic Anatomy and Physiology

After reading that excess max-strength can impair speed strength, you may initially assume that heavy weight lifting is harmful for fighters. This is not true however.

Many old school trainers believe heavy weights will lead to excess bulk and reduced speed. This is a myth. Although excessive development of max-strength can pose problems, this strength quality is still important (if trained in moderation).

To understand the relevance of maximal strength training, it is important to first understand how the body functions. Once you understand the body, there is no dis*****g the relevance of maximal strength training.

For starters, muscle fibers are grouped into motor units. A motor unit contains hundreds of muscle fibers and one nerve, which delivers a signal to the muscle fibers. All of the muscle fibers contained within the motor unit are of the same type (fast twitch or slow twitch). When a signal is passed for the motor unit to contract, all of the fibers within that motor unit will contract.

When training for power development, we must target the fast twitch muscle fibers. Unfortunately, not all motor units are activated at once. Low intensity exercise does not activate the fast twitch muscle fibers. If the exercise does not stimulate a fast twitch motor unit, the muscle fibers contained within the unit will not adapt to the training. Essentially, if the motor unit is not recruited, no response occurs.

Thus, if you only lift very light loads, you will not adequately target the fast twitch muscle fibers. When lifting heavy loads (training maximal strength), a high percentage of motor units are activated. During such intense loads, fast twitch motor units are recruited. For this reason, maximal strength training is considered the superior method for improving both intramuscular and intermuscular coordination.

So, while excessive max-strength training can lead to problems, this strength quality must not be ignored. Through proper program design, max-strength training can be used to enhance the power potential of any athlete (ie. improve your ability to recruit, hence utilize your fast twitch muscle fibers).''

how many amateurs have a proper weight training program? how many have strenght and conditioning experts to walk them through exercises? how important is physical strenght really in amateur boxing? how much priority does it need compared to other areas?

thats the questions i ask myself before advising often very green amateur fighters to focus more on their skills and improve their in ring ability that way. then keep a simple strenght program they can do in the boxing gym right after their boxing workout or in the street right after their roadwork.

taking time and money to join another gym and try to get this **** right is a waste of effort. effort better spent on boxing and maximising your speed, form, rhytm, timing, footwork and other important skills. thats what wins amateur fights imo. if you are fortunate enough to turn pro and be able to spend much more time on training in addition to fighting much longer and more physical fights.. then by all means take the time out to maximise your strenght.

but in early amateur competition its just not smart. i never lost bcus someone was stronger than me, and i never won bcuz i was stronger than them. on the other hand i seen alot of scared fighters try to get as strong as possible thinking that muscle will act as armor and keep them safe, which in turn will make them more confident and successful. or plain help them bash someones head in. regardless of why they do it im yet to see one of those fighters have any real kind of success in the ring.

[BrooklynBomber]

are squats with heavy weights good for boxing? Im in the welterweight class.

Ofcourse it is. it teaches superb coordination and develops excellent strength. Things that should not be underestimated in boxing. Plus it also teaches you how to work through pain.

[Spartacus Sully]

id stick with body weight squats jump squats and burpees.

just boxing builds good legs and core muslces form boxing, road work, jump rope, and sit ups, so if you concentrate on boxing youll find that youll be able to lift just as well as the people lifting heavy at the gym 3 times a week

Speed strength is also very important for fighters. Unfortunately, many athletes train improperly, hence sacrifice this strength quality. For example, world-renowned sport scientist Yuri Verkhoshansky and colleagues established that:

"Excessive maximum strength training can impair speed-strength and technical skill in boxers." (2)

http://www.rosstraining.com/articles...htraining.html

one of the problems with lifting heavy is you are going to get stronger and as you get stronger you need to increase the weight to maintain the 3-5 rep system. so at a point your going to find your self with excessive maximum strength.

like i spent the weight training thread mentioned earlier trying to explain how it makes you slower, as it results in an unbalance between fast twitch fibers and slow twitch fibers, but the fact remains that is has been scientifically proven to make you slower.

another issue is that fast twitch fibers trained with a heavy load require a heavy load to fire properly. punching is not a heavy load. so youll need to accompany the heavy lifting with ploys to train the fast twitch fibers to fire at a lower load.

so then your left lifting heavy and doing ploys ontop of your normal boxing.

personally id just stick with plyos like depth jumps, med ball slams, and jump squats instead of squatting heavy.

[DaveJH]

id stick with body weight squats jump squats and burpees.

just boxing builds good legs and core muslces form boxing, road work, jump rope, and sit ups, so if you concentrate on boxing youll find that youll be able to lift just as well as the people lifting heavy at the gym 3 times a week


http://www.rosstraining.com/articles...htraining.html

one of the problems with lifting heavy is you are going to get stronger and as you get stronger you need to increase the weight to maintain the 3-5 rep system. so at a point your going to find your self with excessive maximum strength.

like i spent the weight training thread mentioned earlier trying to explain how it makes you slower, as it results in an unbalance between fast twitch fibers and slow twitch fibers, but the fact remains that is has been scientifically proven to make you slower.

another issue is that fast twitch fibers trained with a heavy load require a heavy load to fire properly. punching is not a heavy load. so youll need to accompany the heavy lifting with ploys to train the fast twitch fibers to fire at a lower load.

so then your left lifting heavy and doing ploys ontop of your normal boxing.

personally id just stick with plyos like depth jumps, med ball slams, and jump squats instead of squatting heavy.

We've been through this, FAST twitch fibres do not make you slow, no matter how great a ratio you have. Those fibres are designed to contract as fast as possible, and training them will only enhance this quality.

When I use weights for boxing, I do not use the loads required to hit maximal strength. I use the loads required to promote explosive strength. This formula is 70%-80% of 1RM for 3-5 reps. I can personally attest that pursuing such a programme left me feeling more powerful in the ring and I found I had more snap on my shots. 4 days a week I work on skill and conditioning/muscular endurance, and twice a week I work with weights or on strength. Typically my strength routine starts with two movements such as a snatch or press variant performed for 4 sets of 3-5 reps. I then perform pairs of difficult bodyweight exercises such as 5 pull-ups followed by 8 depth plyometric press-ups. I will then do a similar thing for my lower body, for example one legged squats followed by split jumps or knees-to-chest jumps. I feel that with such as schedule I am hitting all strength components and can honestly say I've experienced none of the adverse effects such as the lack of speed that most on this forum would be hasty to predict.

Slow twitch fibres do not contract quickly, but are capable of sustaining contraction for longer periods of time, so these are typically used by athletes competing in endurance events.

Boxing is more of an interval based event, primarily focussed around the Type IIa fibres and the lactic energy system. This system and fibres can supply energy for 3-5 minutes, and recovers after around a minute, making it the ideal system to train for boxing fitness. As long as skill work and conditioning isn't neglected, there is no harm in pursuing a strength or 'weight' training regime based around promoting explosive strength.

Sully, in the previous thread I showed various sources proving your statement that it makes you slow and hampers your coordination wrong. I asked you to show me your sources proving me otherwise, you are yet to come up with them.

[BTF]

I'm gonna echo what other people have said about squads being the top priority as far as weightlifting for boxing goes.

That being said, be careful with the "heavy" lifting. As long as it doesnt interfere with your ability to maintain your regular training regiment it should be okay.

Squatjumps are really good to include in your daily training also cuz they build explosive power.

[Spartacus Sully]

We've been through this, FAST twitch fibres do not make you slow, no matter how great a ratio you have. Those fibres are designed to contract as fast as possible, and training them will only enhance this quality.

When I use weights for boxing, I do not use the loads required to hit maximal strength. I use the loads required to promote explosive strength. This formula is 70%-80% of 1RM for 3-5 reps. I can personally attest that pursuing such a programme left me feeling more powerful in the ring and I found I had more snap on my shots. 4 days a week I work on skill and conditioning/muscular endurance, and twice a week I work with weights or on strength. Typically my strength routine starts with two movements such as a snatch or press variant performed for 4 sets of 3-5 reps. I then perform pairs of difficult bodyweight exercises such as 5 pull-ups followed by 8 depth plyometric press-ups. I will then do a similar thing for my lower body, for example one legged squats followed by split jumps or knees-to-chest jumps. I feel that with such as schedule I am hitting all strength components and can honestly say I've experienced none of the adverse effects such as the lack of speed that most on this forum would be hasty to predict.

Slow twitch fibres do not contract quickly, but are capable of sustaining contraction for longer periods of time, so these are typically used by athletes competing in endurance events.

Boxing is more of an interval based event, primarily focussed around the Type IIa fibres and the lactic energy system. This system and fibres can supply energy for 3-5 minutes, and recovers after around a minute, making it the ideal system to train for boxing fitness. As long as skill work and conditioning isn't neglected, there is no harm in pursuing a strength or 'weight' training regime based around promoting explosive strength.

Sully, in the previous thread I showed various sources proving your statement that it makes you slow and hampers your coordination wrong. I asked you to show me your sources proving me otherwise, you are yet to come up with them.

http://www.rosstraining.com/articles...htraining.html

Speed strength is also very important for fighters. Unfortunately, many athletes train improperly, hence sacrifice this strength quality. For example, world-renowned sport scientist Yuri Verkhoshansky and colleagues established that:

"Excessive maximum strength training can impair speed-strength and technical skill in boxers." (2)

scientifically proven.

[DaveJH]

http://www.rosstraining.com/articles...htraining.html



scientifically proven.

That's maximal strength not explosive strength like I said.

Max strengh is trained by 3-5 reps with around 90-100% of 1RM
Explosive strength is trained by 3-5 reps with around 75-85% of 1RM.

Therefore it is not scientifically proven at all, you're talking about two completely different components and moulding them to suit your argument.

Explosive strength will be aided by training with the right regime, and this will be of no detriment at all to a boxer provided they don't ignore their skill and conditioning work.

Please learn comprehension, and none of these issues would arise. I proved everything I needed to in the last thread, and it arose that you didn't realise the difference between fast and slow twitch fibres. Development of fast twitch fibres - using a regime designed around explosive strength will not harm a fighter at all. Explosive strength CAN be trained successfully with weights, and I've outlined the protocol for doing so.

[Spartacus Sully]

That's maximal strength not explosive strength like I said.

Max strengh is trained by 3-5 reps with around 90-100% of 1RM
Explosive strength is trained by 3-5 reps with around 75-85% of 1RM.

Therefore it is not scientifically proven at all, you're talking about two completely different components and moulding them to suit your argument.

Explosive strength will be aided by training with the right regime, and this will be of no detriment at all to a boxer provided they don't ignore their skill and conditioning work.

Please learn comprehension, and none of these issues would arise.

so you dont get stronger lifting heavy?

and you have it backwards

if you want to lift heavy id recommend 3 sets of 1 rep at your 1rm with full recovery and stretching between sets as its mainly for explosiveness.

[DaveJH]

so you dont get stronger lifting heavy?

For ****'s sake, there's different components of strength trained by using different protocols. The line you cited says that MAXIMAL strength is harmful for fighters in too great a quantity, you can train EXPLOSIVE strength by using the same rep scheme and heavy weight, just not at the level you'd use if you were training max strength.

[Spartacus Sully]

For ****'s sake, there's different components of strength trained by using different protocols. The line you cited says that MAXIMAL strength is harmful for fighters in too great a quantity, you can train EXPLOSIVE strength by using the same rep scheme and heavy weight, just not at the level you'd use if you were training max strength.

so if i do your routine twice a week im always going to be lifting the same weight? or am i going to have to add weight after a few weeks to still be at 75-85% 1 rm?