jack johnson vs rocky marciano

[M26]

Jack Johnson would present Rocky Marciano with more than a decent challenge considering his marvelous defensive abilities. He usually handled fighters coming at him with relative ease, and I believe he would control the fight early on.

How ever, Johnson was best fighting at a fairly controlled pace. Against Marciano he would have to adjust to someone coming at him at all times, always throwing punches with bad intentions. And Marciano had more power than anyone Johnson ever faced. Further, Marciano would not tire, nor would he get discouraged from Johsons tendency to tie up his foes. In fact, I believe he would have a hard time tying up Marciano, considering Marcianos short arms, busy workrate and superior power.

I see this fight ending in a brutal fashion for Johnson. After controlling the first 5-7 rounds, Marciano would start to seriously connect with those bombs. Keeping his power throughout any fight, Marciano would begin to hurt Johnson at this time, pounding his upperbody with jolting shots. Hurting and bruised, I envision Johnson going down for keeps somewhere after the 10th round.

Rocky Marciano by late ko.

[Southpaw Stinger]

Jack Johnson would present Rocky Marciano with more than a decent challenge considering his marvelous defensive abilities. He usually handled fighters coming at him with relative ease, and I believe he would control the fight early on.

How ever, Johnson was best fighting at a fairly controlled pace. Against Marciano he would have to adjust to someone coming at him at all times, always throwing punches with bad intentions. And Marciano had more power than anyone Johnson ever faced. Further, Marciano would not tire, nor would he get discouraged from Johsons tendency to tie up his foes. In fact, I believe he would have a hard time tying up Marciano, considering Marcianos short arms, busy workrate and superior power.

I see this fight ending in a brutal fashion for Johnson. After controlling the first 5-7 rounds, Marciano would start to seriously connect with those bombs. Keeping his power throughout any fight, Marciano would begin to hurt Johnson at this time, pounding his upperbody with jolting shots. Hurting and bruised, I envision Johnson going down for keeps somewhere after the 10th round.

Rocky Marciano by late ko.

I feel the same way. I also think Frazier would whack him out of there.

Johnson fought at a measured pace and I see the likes of Marciano and Frazier who would swarm all over him, crowd him and be throwing hard punchers at a rate that Johnson just wouldn't like. Not that Johnson wasn't a great defensive fighter, it's just that guys like rocky had unending stamina and threw bombs none stop. After early success, Johnson would be worn down and hurt.

[robjr]

Rocky Marciano

[hhascup]

I think your not giving credit to Johnson on his stamina. He boxed 13 bouts that went 20 rounds or more. He did lose 14 bouts in his career, BUT 7 of them were after he turned 48 years old. The other losses were mostly at the start of his career. When he was in his prime, he ruled the Heavyweight division. Those who saw him box stated that he was in a class of his own.

Just look at the boxers he beat, Sam McVea, Joe Jeannette and Sam Langford, this was during the Black Era when the Balck boxers had to box each other over and over again. He was way ahead of his time.

[Jim Jeffries]

Hey, at least I put something out there, you didn't. I don't know if it would have been as simple as I described it, but I could definitely see the fight going somewhere along those lines. Let me guess, you think Marciano would have knocked Johnson out too? Do you think Marciano fighting with his relentless assault could have sustained it for 45 rounds? LOL

I can guarantee it wouldn't last 45 rounds, yes.

[hhascup]

Like I stated before, Most Boxing Historians and Experts have Johnson a head of Marciano. Here's some of them:

James Slater:

1. Muhammad Ali - Simply The Greatest, he fought every deserving contender in an era absolutely crammed with them. Also, earns points as the first man in history to win the title three times.

2. Jack Johnson - Way ahead of his time, he was a defensive master. Neither before or since has a heavyweight champion been so blessed in the ability of avoiding blows. Also had hurtful punching power.

3. Jack Dempsey - Revolutionised the sport with his savage fighting style. Also had an absolutely granite jaw.

4. Joe Louis - The longest reign in heavyweight history - an astonishing, never to be beaten, record 25 title defences. Pure one punch KO power, never wasted a shot.

5. Rocky Marciano - Retired unbeaten! Seemingly impossible to hurt. Also had endless stamina and vicious punching power.

6. George Foreman - The oldest heavyweight champion in history. Had freakish strength and thudding punch power. Also had more stamina in later career. Only ever stopped once, by the guy at the top of this list.

7. Larry Holmes - Vastly underrated, second only to Louis in number of title defences. Possibly possessed the finest jab in heavyweight history.

8. Sonny Liston - Had sheer brute force and power. Also a decent boxer, with a ramrod of a jab. Was at his peak in late 1950’s, an old man against Clay/Ali.

9. Joe Frazier - Owned probably the best left hook in heavyweight boxing. Also had amazing heart and an unlimited ability at taking punishment.

10. Evander Holyfield - Proved all his critics wrong when they said he wasn’t big enough. Used incredible guts and courage to defeat the huge Rid**** Bowe. Also shocked the world by smashing Tyson. Finally, earns points for becoming the only four time heavyweight champ (although only twice in linear terms).


Monte D. Cox

THE TOP 20 HEAVYWEIGHTS OF ALL TIME

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Johnson
4. George Foreman
5. Larry Holmes
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Sonny Liston
8. Jim Jeffries
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Mike Tyson
11. Rocky Marciano
12. Joe Frazier
13. Rid**** Bowe
14. Evander Holyfield
15. Sam Langford
16. Gene Tunney
17. James J. Corbett
18. Ezzard Charles
19. Jersey Joe Walcott
20. Max Schmeling

BERT SUGAR'S TOP 10 FIGHTERS

1. Sugar Ray Robinson, welterweight-middleweight, 1940-65
2. Henry Armstrong, featherweight-lightweight-welterweight, 1931-45
3. Willie Pep, featherweight, 1940-59
4. Joe Louis, heavyweight, 1934-51
5. Harry Greb, middleweight, light heavyweight, 1913-26
6. Benny Leonard, lightweight, 1911-32
7. Muhammad Ali, heavyweight, 1960-81
8. Roberto Duran, lightweight, welterweight, junior middleweight, 1967-2001
9. Jack Dempsey, heavyweight, 1914-27
10. Jack Johnson, heavyweight, 1897-1928


Source: "Boxing's Greatest Fighters," 2006

Sugar's top 10 heavyweights

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Gene Tunney
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Ezzard Charles
8. George Foreman
9. Joe Frazier
10. Larry Holmes

Source: "Ringside: The Ten Greatest Heavyweights," ESPN Classic

Nat Fleischer, Founder of Ring Magazine, 1958, 1971.

1.Jack Johnson
2.Jim Jeffries
3.Bob Fitzsimmons
4.Jack Dempsey
5.Jim Corbett
6.Joe Louis
7.Sam Langford
8.Gene Tunney
9.Max Schemling
10.Rocky Marciano

Charley Rose, 1968
1.Sam Langford
2.Jack Johnson
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Joe Louis
5.Jim Jeffries
6.Gene Tunney
7.Sam McVey
8.Rocky Marciano
9.Jim Corbett
10.Max Baer

World Boxing 1974 Readers Poll
1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Dempsey
3.Rocky Marciano
4.Jack Johnson
5.Muhammad Ali
6.Joe Frazier
7.Gene Tunney
8.Jim Jeffries
9.Sonny Liston
10.Ezzard Charles

Nat Loubet, 1975
1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Dempsey
3.Jim Jeffries
4.Jack Johnson
5.Rocky Marciano
6.Gene Tunney
7.Bob Fitzsimmons
8.James J. Corbett
9.Muhammad Ali
10.Joe Frazier

John Durant -Author of "The Heavyweight Champions" (1976)

1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Johnson
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Muhammad Ali
5.Gene Tunney
6.Joe Frazier
7.Jim Jeffries
8.James J. Corbett
9.Rocky Marciano
10.Max Schemling

Bill Brennan 1978 (Former President of the WBA)

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Jack Johnson
5.Gene Tunney
6.Jim Jeffries
7.Max Schemeling
8.Rocky Marciano
9.James J. Corebett
10.Bob Fitzsimmons



Big Book of Boxing Reader Poll, 1978

1.Joe Louis
2.Muhammad Ali
3.Rocky Marciano
4.Jack Dempsey
5.Jack Johnson
6.Gene Tunney
7.Joe Frazier
8.Jim Jeffries
9.Ezzard Charles
10.Sonny Liston

Bert Sugar, 1991

1.Jack Dempsey
2.Joe Louis
3.Muhammad Ali
4.Jack Johnson
5.Gene Tunney
6.Rocky Marciano
7.Joe Frazier
8.Larry Holmes
9.Sonny Liston
10.Mike Tyson

Arthur Harris, 1992 (Nov 1992 Boxing Scene)

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Jack Johnson
5.Gene Tunney
6.Rocky Marciano
7.Larry Holmes
8.Jersey Joe Walcott
9.Joe Frazier
10.Sonny Liston

Nigel Collins, 1997

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Evander Holyfield
4.Larry Holmes
5.George Foreman
6.Jack Johnson
7.Rocky Marciano
8.Joe Frazier
9.Jack Dempsey
10.Sonny Liston



Herbert Goldman, 1997

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Sonny Liston
4.Mike Tyson
5.Larry Holmes
6.Jack Johnson
7.Jack Dempsey
8.George Foreman
9.Rocky Marciano
10.Joe Frazier

Herbert Goldman, 1987

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Sonny Liston
3.Larry Holmes
4.Jack Johnson
5.Jack Dempsey
6.Joe Louis
7.Rocky Marciano
8.Harry Wills
9.George Foreman
10.Joe Frazier
11.Mike Tyson
12.Joe Jeannette
13.Jersey Joe Walcott
14.Max Baer
15.Max Schmeling

Steve Farhood, 1997

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Jack Johnson
4.Larry Holmes
5.Rocky Marciano
6.Jack Dempsey
7.Jim Jeffries
8.Evander Holyfield
9.Mike Tyson
10.George Foreman



BBC Sports, 2004

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Jack Johnson
4.Larry Holmes
5.Jack Dempsey
6.Rocky Marciano
7.Lennox Lewis
8.Mike Tyson
9.George Foreman
10.Evander Holyfield

IBRO Member Poll, 2005

1.Joe Louis
2.Muhammad Ali
3.Jack Johnson
4.Jack Dempsey
5.Rocky Marciano
6.Larry Holmes
7.James Jeffries
8.George Foreman
9.Sonny Liston
10.Joe Frazier

Tracy Callis
Heavyweights:

1.Jim Jeffries
2.Jack Johnson
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Joe Louis
5.Muhammad Ali
6.Gene Tunney
7.Jim Corbett
8.Sonny Liston
9.Rocky Marciano
10.Larry Holmes

Lou Duva
1- Rocky Marciano. (Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Billy Conn, Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Sonny Liston, Ernie Shavers, Jim Braddock and Max Baer. Special mention: Max Schmelling and 'Jersey' Joe Walcott)


Jimmy Glenn
1- Joe Louis. (Jack Johnson, Muhammad Ali, Rocky Marciano, 'Jersery' Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Larry Holmes, Sonny Liston, Jack Dempsey and Floyd Patterson).

Al Certo
1- Rocky Marciano, 2- Joe Louis, 3- 'Jersey' Joe Walcott. (Muhammad Ali, Roland LaStarza, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Jim Braddock, Max Baer and Max Schmelling. Special mention: Billy Conn).

Angelo Dundee
1- Muhammad Ali. (Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Joe Frazier, Jack Demspey, Max Schmelling and Jim Braddock).

Gil Clancy
1- Joe Louis, 2- Rocky Marciano, 3- Muhammad Ali. (Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Jack Johnson, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson).

Buddy McGirt
1- Muhammad Ali. (Joe Louis, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, 'Jersey' Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Mike Tyson, Larry Holmes, Jack Johnson and Evander Holyfield).

Kevin Rooney
1- Joe Louis, 2- Rocky Marciano, 3- Muhammad Ali, 4- Mike Tyson, 5- George Foreman, 6- Floyd Patterson, 7- Joe Frazier, 8- Jack Dempsey, 9- Evander Holyfield, 10- Jack Johnson.

Freddie Roach
1- Joe Louis, 2 Muhammad Ali, 3- Larry Holmes, 4- Joe Frazier, 5- Evander Holyfield, 6- Jack Johnson, 7- Rocky Marciano, 8- Mike Tyson, 9- George Foreman, 10- James Toney.

Manny Steward
1- Muhammad Ali, 2- Joe Louis, 3- Larry Holmes, 4- George Foreman, 5- Lennox Lewis, 6- Gene Tunney, 7- Jack Johnson, 8- Rocky Marciano, 9- Sonny Liston, 10- Mike Tyson.

David Martinez
#1 JACK JOHNSON
#2 MUHAMMAD ALI
#3 JOE LOUIS
#4 JACK DEMPSEY
#5 ROCKY MARCIANO
#6 GENE TUNNEY

[them_apples]

I'm glad Mike Tyson was in a lot of those lists, he often gets left behind by the "boxing critics" due to his upset.

[Jim Jeffries]

Like I stated before, Most Boxing Historians and Experts have Johnson a head of Marciano. Here's some of them:

James Slater:

1. Muhammad Ali - Simply The Greatest, he fought every deserving contender in an era absolutely crammed with them. Also, earns points as the first man in history to win the title three times.

2. Jack Johnson - Way ahead of his time, he was a defensive master. Neither before or since has a heavyweight champion been so blessed in the ability of avoiding blows. Also had hurtful punching power.

3. Jack Dempsey - Revolutionised the sport with his savage fighting style. Also had an absolutely granite jaw.

4. Joe Louis - The longest reign in heavyweight history - an astonishing, never to be beaten, record 25 title defences. Pure one punch KO power, never wasted a shot.

5. Rocky Marciano - Retired unbeaten! Seemingly impossible to hurt. Also had endless stamina and vicious punching power.

6. George Foreman - The oldest heavyweight champion in history. Had freakish strength and thudding punch power. Also had more stamina in later career. Only ever stopped once, by the guy at the top of this list.

7. Larry Holmes - Vastly underrated, second only to Louis in number of title defences. Possibly possessed the finest jab in heavyweight history.

8. Sonny Liston - Had sheer brute force and power. Also a decent boxer, with a ramrod of a jab. Was at his peak in late 1950’s, an old man against Clay/Ali.

9. Joe Frazier - Owned probably the best left hook in heavyweight boxing. Also had amazing heart and an unlimited ability at taking punishment.

10. Evander Holyfield - Proved all his critics wrong when they said he wasn’t big enough. Used incredible guts and courage to defeat the huge Rid**** Bowe. Also shocked the world by smashing Tyson. Finally, earns points for becoming the only four time heavyweight champ (although only twice in linear terms).


Monte D. Cox

THE TOP 20 HEAVYWEIGHTS OF ALL TIME

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Johnson
4. George Foreman
5. Larry Holmes
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Sonny Liston
8. Jim Jeffries
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Mike Tyson
11. Rocky Marciano
12. Joe Frazier
13. Rid**** Bowe
14. Evander Holyfield
15. Sam Langford
16. Gene Tunney
17. James J. Corbett
18. Ezzard Charles
19. Jersey Joe Walcott
20. Max Schmeling

BERT SUGAR'S TOP 10 FIGHTERS

1. Sugar Ray Robinson, welterweight-middleweight, 1940-65
2. Henry Armstrong, featherweight-lightweight-welterweight, 1931-45
3. Willie Pep, featherweight, 1940-59
4. Joe Louis, heavyweight, 1934-51
5. Harry Greb, middleweight, light heavyweight, 1913-26
6. Benny Leonard, lightweight, 1911-32
7. Muhammad Ali, heavyweight, 1960-81
8. Roberto Duran, lightweight, welterweight, junior middleweight, 1967-2001
9. Jack Dempsey, heavyweight, 1914-27
10. Jack Johnson, heavyweight, 1897-1928


Source: "Boxing's Greatest Fighters," 2006

Sugar's top 10 heavyweights

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Gene Tunney
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Ezzard Charles
8. George Foreman
9. Joe Frazier
10. Larry Holmes

Source: "Ringside: The Ten Greatest Heavyweights," ESPN Classic

Nat Fleischer, Founder of Ring Magazine, 1958, 1971.

1.Jack Johnson
2.Jim Jeffries
3.Bob Fitzsimmons
4.Jack Dempsey
5.Jim Corbett
6.Joe Louis
7.Sam Langford
8.Gene Tunney
9.Max Schemling
10.Rocky Marciano

Charley Rose, 1968
1.Sam Langford
2.Jack Johnson
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Joe Louis
5.Jim Jeffries
6.Gene Tunney
7.Sam McVey
8.Rocky Marciano
9.Jim Corbett
10.Max Baer

World Boxing 1974 Readers Poll
1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Dempsey
3.Rocky Marciano
4.Jack Johnson
5.Muhammad Ali
6.Joe Frazier
7.Gene Tunney
8.Jim Jeffries
9.Sonny Liston
10.Ezzard Charles

Nat Loubet, 1975
1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Dempsey
3.Jim Jeffries
4.Jack Johnson
5.Rocky Marciano
6.Gene Tunney
7.Bob Fitzsimmons
8.James J. Corbett
9.Muhammad Ali
10.Joe Frazier

John Durant -Author of "The Heavyweight Champions" (1976)

1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Johnson
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Muhammad Ali
5.Gene Tunney
6.Joe Frazier
7.Jim Jeffries
8.James J. Corbett
9.Rocky Marciano
10.Max Schemling

Bill Brennan 1978 (Former President of the WBA)

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Jack Johnson
5.Gene Tunney
6.Jim Jeffries
7.Max Schemeling
8.Rocky Marciano
9.James J. Corebett
10.Bob Fitzsimmons



Big Book of Boxing Reader Poll, 1978

1.Joe Louis
2.Muhammad Ali
3.Rocky Marciano
4.Jack Dempsey
5.Jack Johnson
6.Gene Tunney
7.Joe Frazier
8.Jim Jeffries
9.Ezzard Charles
10.Sonny Liston

Bert Sugar, 1991

1.Jack Dempsey
2.Joe Louis
3.Muhammad Ali
4.Jack Johnson
5.Gene Tunney
6.Rocky Marciano
7.Joe Frazier
8.Larry Holmes
9.Sonny Liston
10.Mike Tyson

Arthur Harris, 1992 (Nov 1992 Boxing Scene)

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Jack Johnson
5.Gene Tunney
6.Rocky Marciano
7.Larry Holmes
8.Jersey Joe Walcott
9.Joe Frazier
10.Sonny Liston

Nigel Collins, 1997

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Evander Holyfield
4.Larry Holmes
5.George Foreman
6.Jack Johnson
7.Rocky Marciano
8.Joe Frazier
9.Jack Dempsey
10.Sonny Liston



Herbert Goldman, 1997

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Sonny Liston
4.Mike Tyson
5.Larry Holmes
6.Jack Johnson
7.Jack Dempsey
8.George Foreman
9.Rocky Marciano
10.Joe Frazier

Herbert Goldman, 1987

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Sonny Liston
3.Larry Holmes
4.Jack Johnson
5.Jack Dempsey
6.Joe Louis
7.Rocky Marciano
8.Harry Wills
9.George Foreman
10.Joe Frazier
11.Mike Tyson
12.Joe Jeannette
13.Jersey Joe Walcott
14.Max Baer
15.Max Schmeling

Steve Farhood, 1997

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Jack Johnson
4.Larry Holmes
5.Rocky Marciano
6.Jack Dempsey
7.Jim Jeffries
8.Evander Holyfield
9.Mike Tyson
10.George Foreman



BBC Sports, 2004

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Jack Johnson
4.Larry Holmes
5.Jack Dempsey
6.Rocky Marciano
7.Lennox Lewis
8.Mike Tyson
9.George Foreman
10.Evander Holyfield

IBRO Member Poll, 2005

1.Joe Louis
2.Muhammad Ali
3.Jack Johnson
4.Jack Dempsey
5.Rocky Marciano
6.Larry Holmes
7.James Jeffries
8.George Foreman
9.Sonny Liston
10.Joe Frazier

Tracy Callis
Heavyweights:

1.Jim Jeffries
2.Jack Johnson
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Joe Louis
5.Muhammad Ali
6.Gene Tunney
7.Jim Corbett
8.Sonny Liston
9.Rocky Marciano
10.Larry Holmes

Lou Duva
1- Rocky Marciano. (Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Billy Conn, Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Sonny Liston, Ernie Shavers, Jim Braddock and Max Baer. Special mention: Max Schmelling and 'Jersey' Joe Walcott)


Jimmy Glenn
1- Joe Louis. (Jack Johnson, Muhammad Ali, Rocky Marciano, 'Jersery' Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Larry Holmes, Sonny Liston, Jack Dempsey and Floyd Patterson).

Al Certo
1- Rocky Marciano, 2- Joe Louis, 3- 'Jersey' Joe Walcott. (Muhammad Ali, Roland LaStarza, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Jim Braddock, Max Baer and Max Schmelling. Special mention: Billy Conn).

Angelo Dundee
1- Muhammad Ali. (Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Joe Frazier, Jack Demspey, Max Schmelling and Jim Braddock).

Gil Clancy
1- Joe Louis, 2- Rocky Marciano, 3- Muhammad Ali. (Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Jack Johnson, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson).

Buddy McGirt
1- Muhammad Ali. (Joe Louis, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, 'Jersey' Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Mike Tyson, Larry Holmes, Jack Johnson and Evander Holyfield).

Kevin Rooney
1- Joe Louis, 2- Rocky Marciano, 3- Muhammad Ali, 4- Mike Tyson, 5- George Foreman, 6- Floyd Patterson, 7- Joe Frazier, 8- Jack Dempsey, 9- Evander Holyfield, 10- Jack Johnson.

Freddie Roach
1- Joe Louis, 2 Muhammad Ali, 3- Larry Holmes, 4- Joe Frazier, 5- Evander Holyfield, 6- Jack Johnson, 7- Rocky Marciano, 8- Mike Tyson, 9- George Foreman, 10- James Toney.

Manny Steward
1- Muhammad Ali, 2- Joe Louis, 3- Larry Holmes, 4- George Foreman, 5- Lennox Lewis, 6- Gene Tunney, 7- Jack Johnson, 8- Rocky Marciano, 9- Sonny Liston, 10- Mike Tyson.

David Martinez
#1 JACK JOHNSON
#2 MUHAMMAD ALI
#3 JOE LOUIS
#4 JACK DEMPSEY
#5 ROCKY MARCIANO
#6 GENE TUNNEY

Jack Johnson ahead of Joe Louis is just rediculous.

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

Jack Johnson ahead of Joe Louis is just rediculous.

I agree, and a lot of those lists are ridiculous to me.

[hhascup]

Most of these guys are so called experts and they do know their boxing. No two Boxing Historians or Experts will ever agree on a Top 10 rating. Some of the Greatest Boxing people I know of or heard of, rate Johnson very high on their list. I think if you count them all up Louis was a head of Johnson on 22 of the 27 lists.

I have done a lot of research and I also went through old newspapers for years and when Dempsey became Champion, boxing people would say, Dempsey is good but he is no Jack Johnson. When Louis was the Champion they said the same thing, Louis is the best we have now but he would look like an Amateur if he ever fought guys like Johnson or Dempsey. I heard the same thing when Ali was the Champion.

Johnson was known as the Greatest defensive boxer of all-times. Nat Fleischer, Founder of Ring Magazine, rated him #1 and Louis #6, and he saw both when they were at their best. Most Boxing Historians and Experts rate Louis a little higher, BUT most of them never saw Johnson in his prime.

Just for the record, I have Ali, then Louis as my 1 and 2, with Johnson somewhere further down, BUT higher then Rocky.