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Old 08-21-2006, 01:55 PM #1
K-DOGG K-DOGG is offline
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Default Greatest Welterweights of All Time

Accidentally posted this on the Global thread....

Just want some feedback; what are your thoughts on the all time Top Ten?

Here's my list...


1. Ray Robinson
2. Hank Armstrong
3. Jose Napoles
4. Ray Leonard
5. Barney Ross
6. Barbados Joe Walcott
7. Micky Walker
8. Jimmy McLarnin
9. Carmen Basilio
10.Emille Griffith

Last edited by K-DOGG; 08-21-2006 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 08-21-2006, 05:37 PM #2
Dr Cynical Dr Cynical is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-DOGG
Accidentally posted this on the Global thread....

Just want some feedback; what are your thoughts on the all time Top Ten?

Here's my list...


1. Ray Robinson
2. Hank Armstrong
3. Jose Napoles
4. Ray Leonard
5. Barney Ross
6. Barbados Joe Walcott
7. Micky Walker
8. Jimmy McLarnin
9. Emille Griffith
10. Felix Trinidad
I think the No.10 spot should go to an actual great who's deserving of that spot.

I don't think Trinidad should be mentioned anywhere near the top ten greatest.

I know I'm going to get weakly flamed and called a "hater".
But, whatever. If you guys really think about it, you'll know I'm right.
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Old 08-21-2006, 05:39 PM #3
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Cynical
I think the No.10 spot should go to an actual great who's deserving of that spot.

I don't think Trinidad should be mentioned anywhere near the top ten greatest.


I know I'm going to get weakly flamed and called a "hater".
But, whatever. If you guys really think about it, you'll know I'm right.
exaxctly

tito aint a great!
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Old 08-21-2006, 05:54 PM #4
K-DOGG K-DOGG is offline
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There....forgot to edit it. Sorry 'botu that; but Tito's firm at # 11.
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Old 08-22-2006, 03:35 AM #5
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I'd have something such as:

Robinson
Leonard
Armstrong
Napoles
Walcott
Walker
Griffith
Gavilan
Trinidad
Hearns
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Old 08-22-2006, 06:11 AM #6
cple cple is offline
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I love Tito as much as the next guy, but i don't think i could ever make a welterweight list ranking him above Tommy Hearns, a fighter who i believe had the physical tools and skill to beat any man weighing 147 pounds. I cannot say that about Trinidad.

While it is true that on paper Trinidad's welterweight accomplishments (7 year reign, 14 or 15 title defenses) dwarf that of Hearns (1 year, 4 titles defenses), you had to see them in action to know that they were--as much as i hate to say it--of two different classes of fighter. Hearns was absolutely devastating in his victories, as opposed to Trinidad, who often had to come off the canvas to win against far inferior opposition. I might even say that Cuevas was better than anyone Trinidad faced at 147, even De La Hoya; well, that De La Hoya. Hell, i'm not sure if Hearn's loss to Leonard detracts from his greatness. That fight elevated both Hearn's and Leonard's legend, imo.

The way i see it, Trinidad probably wouldn't have had all those title defenses had he fought in Hearns' time. But i think Hearns would been completely dominant in Trinidad's era.

As for the rest of the top 10, if i remember correctly, my lists consists of roughly the same fighters as you all. Others that deserve mention: Tommy Ryan, Nonpariel Jack Dempsey (who weighed around 147 for many of his bouts against heavier opponents), Luis Rodriguez, Kid McCoy.
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Old 08-22-2006, 11:09 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cple
I love Tito as much as the next guy, but i don't think i could ever make a welterweight list ranking him above Tommy Hearns, a fighter who i believe had the physical tools and skill to beat any man weighing 147 pounds. I cannot say that about Trinidad.

While it is true that on paper Trinidad's welterweight accomplishments (7 year reign, 14 or 15 title defenses) dwarf that of Hearns (1 year, 4 titles defenses), you had to see them in action to know that they were--as much as i hate to say it--of two different classes of fighter. Hearns was absolutely devastating in his victories, as opposed to Trinidad, who often had to come off the canvas to win against far inferior opposition. I might even say that Cuevas was better than anyone Trinidad faced at 147, even De La Hoya; well, that De La Hoya. Hell, i'm not sure if Hearn's loss to Leonard detracts from his greatness. That fight elevated both Hearn's and Leonard's legend, imo.

The way i see it, Trinidad probably wouldn't have had all those title defenses had he fought in Hearns' time. But i think Hearns would been completely dominant in Trinidad's era.

As for the rest of the top 10, if i remember correctly, my lists consists of roughly the same fighters as you all. Others that deserve mention: Tommy Ryan, Nonpariel Jack Dempsey (who weighed around 147 for many of his bouts against heavier opponents), Luis Rodriguez, Kid McCoy.
Luis Rodriguez was great but didn't have enough of a reign to rank in the top ten. He makes top fifteen based on his skills. Read about the others and they were also great. You are all forgetting Rocky Graziano I know he was a middleweight but most of his wins were against very good welterweights
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Old 08-22-2006, 12:58 PM #8
K-DOGG K-DOGG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cple
I love Tito as much as the next guy, but i don't think i could ever make a welterweight list ranking him above Tommy Hearns, a fighter who i believe had the physical tools and skill to beat any man weighing 147 pounds. I cannot say that about Trinidad.

While it is true that on paper Trinidad's welterweight accomplishments (7 year reign, 14 or 15 title defenses) dwarf that of Hearns (1 year, 4 titles defenses), you had to see them in action to know that they were--as much as i hate to say it--of two different classes of fighter. Hearns was absolutely devastating in his victories, as opposed to Trinidad, who often had to come off the canvas to win against far inferior opposition. I might even say that Cuevas was better than anyone Trinidad faced at 147, even De La Hoya; well, that De La Hoya. Hell, i'm not sure if Hearn's loss to Leonard detracts from his greatness. That fight elevated both Hearn's and Leonard's legend, imo.

The way i see it, Trinidad probably wouldn't have had all those title defenses had he fought in Hearns' time. But i think Hearns would been completely dominant in Trinidad's era.

As for the rest of the top 10, if i remember correctly, my lists consists of roughly the same fighters as you all. Others that deserve mention: Tommy Ryan, Nonpariel Jack Dempsey (who weighed around 147 for many of his bouts against heavier opponents), Luis Rodriguez, Kid McCoy.
As always, you make great points concerning Trinidad and Heanrs. You've definetly given me food for thought, anyway. I am of the thought that Hearns was a greater fighter than Trinidad; but made my list based more on accomplishments. Of course, in the end, Tito fell out fo the top ten, anyway; but the points you make are indeed valid and worth further consideration.

Peace.
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Old 08-22-2006, 01:22 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cple
I love Tito as much as the next guy, but i don't think i could ever make a welterweight list ranking him above Tommy Hearns, a fighter who i believe had the physical tools and skill to beat any man weighing 147 pounds. I cannot say that about Trinidad.

While it is true that on paper Trinidad's welterweight accomplishments (7 year reign, 14 or 15 title defenses) dwarf that of Hearns (1 year, 4 titles defenses), you had to see them in action to know that they were--as much as i hate to say it--of two different classes of fighter. Hearns was absolutely devastating in his victories, as opposed to Trinidad, who often had to come off the canvas to win against far inferior opposition. I might even say that Cuevas was better than anyone Trinidad faced at 147, even De La Hoya; well, that De La Hoya. Hell, i'm not sure if Hearn's loss to Leonard detracts from his greatness. That fight elevated both Hearn's and Leonard's legend, imo.

The way i see it, Trinidad probably wouldn't have had all those title defenses had he fought in Hearns' time. But i think Hearns would been completely dominant in Trinidad's era.

As for the rest of the top 10, if i remember correctly, my lists consists of roughly the same fighters as you all. Others that deserve mention: Tommy Ryan, Nonpariel Jack Dempsey (who weighed around 147 for many of his bouts against heavier opponents), Luis Rodriguez, Kid McCoy.

I'm in complete agreement with you...and even though the list I put up had Trinidad ahead of Hearns, it was on technicality. I thought about accomplishment solely here. Trinidad had the long reign, beat some damned good fighters, but couldn't have handled Hearns in the least. There are only two other fighters that I think could take a welterweight Hearns on his best night, one of those obviously being Leonard...and the other being Robinson of course.

I wish we could have seen another Leonard/HEarns bout at 147 or 154. I think Hearns would have won rather convincingly, kind of like I thought he did in their 160 rematch.
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Old 08-23-2006, 09:24 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgringo
I'm in complete agreement with you...and even though the list I put up had Trinidad ahead of Hearns, it was on technicality. I thought about accomplishment solely here. Trinidad had the long reign, beat some damned good fighters, but couldn't have handled Hearns in the least. There are only two other fighters that I think could take a welterweight Hearns on his best night, one of those obviously being Leonard...and the other being Robinson of course.

I wish we could have seen another Leonard/HEarns bout at 147 or 154. I think Hearns would have won rather convincingly, kind of like I thought he did in their 160 rematch.
I hear you. Too bad Hearns and Leonard had so many years pass before they had the rematch. I also believe that Hearns won the rematch. It amazed me when they called it a draw. Too bad they didn't fight each other as many times as Robinson and LaMotta did. Four more Hearns versus Leonard fights would have been awesome.
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