Comments Thread For: Daily Bread Mailbag: Pacquiao, Davis-Santa Cruz, Joe Joyce, More

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The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling various topics such as Manny Pacquiao having catch-weight bouts, the clash between Gervonta Davis and Leo Santa Cruz, heavyweight contender Joe Joyce, and more.
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[Mexican Bidness]

Funny how when Breadman criticizes Canelo for the Hatton fight yet didn’t source his pivotal knowledge for Taylor vs Norris and the WBC..

Here are the original citings for Breadman’s old school hating ass than mug!

Breadman Mailbag
Published On Sat Jun 29, 2019, 07:32 AM EST

“I think Canelo is one heck of a fighter. But he’s the most privileged fighter in boxing history in my opinion. He’s already good and can beat anyone on his best day. But on top of that he can do whatever he wants.

Think about this. He fought Matthew Hatton at a catchweight for his 1st title. Hatton was a welterweight and not a very highly regarded one I might add. But nevertheless he fought Canelo for the junior middleweight title weighing 149.5 lbs.”

Today’s Mailbag

“Fans only complain about how catchweights affect outcomes of fights when their guy doesn’t win. If the bigger guy gets to go down in weight then rehydrate up they claim he was too big. For example Terry Norris vs Meldrick Taylor. Norris had to come down to 149lbs to face Taylor. But because Norris won, “he was too big.”

But when Manny fought Cotto at 145, and Manny won. It was because Cotto had to lose too much weight. But Cotto fans didn’t say that when he fought Daniel Geale and Sergio Martinez at catchweights because he won those fights.

Just because a fighter is fighting at a catchweight doesn’t mean he has an advantage. Sometimes he does. Sometimes he doesn’t. Sometimes it’s just a ploy by one of the teams to get every perceived advantage they can. But it doesn’t mean it’s a real advantage. It’s all a part of the game.“

[TonyGe]

Originally Posted by Mexican Bidness

Funny how when Breadman criticizes Canelo for the Hatton fight yet didn’t source his pivotal knowledge for Taylor vs Norris and the WBC..

Here are the original citings for Breadman’s old school hating ass than mug!

Breadman Mailbag
Published On Sat Jun 29, 2019, 07:32 AM EST

“I think Canelo is one heck of a fighter. But he’s the most privileged fighter in boxing history in my opinion. He’s already good and can beat anyone on his best day. But on top of that he can do whatever he wants.

Think about this. He fought Matthew Hatton at a catchweight for his 1st title. Hatton was a welterweight and not a very highly regarded one I might add. But nevertheless he fought Canelo for the junior middleweight title weighing 149.5 lbs.”

Today’s Mailbag

“Fans only complain about how catchweights affect outcomes of fights when their guy doesn’t win. If the bigger guy gets to go down in weight then rehydrate up they claim he was too big. For example Terry Norris vs Meldrick Taylor. Norris had to come down to 149lbs to face Taylor. But because Norris won, “he was too big.”

But when Manny fought Cotto at 145, and Manny won. It was because Cotto had to lose too much weight. But Cotto fans didn’t say that when he fought Daniel Geale and Sergio Martinez at catchweights because he won those fights.

Just because a fighter is fighting at a catchweight doesn’t mean he has an advantage. Sometimes he does. Sometimes he doesn’t. Sometimes it’s just a ploy by one of the teams to get every perceived advantage they can. But it doesn’t mean it’s a real advantage. It’s all a part of the game.“

It's also all part of the game to critisize fights. It's going to happen. Catchweight fights are just asking for it IMO. Personally I believe if a fighter wants to move up and win a title the win suspect if his opponent is at a catchweight. An example was the Leonard Lalonde fight. They fought for the 175 pound title and 168 pound title in the same bout. Lalonde looked dehydrated to me. There is no question that Leonard is the superior fighter but winning the 175 pound title should not involve restricting the champions weight.

[SteveM]

Breadman said it pretty clear - some catchweight fights are exploitative, others are not. Meldrick Taylor was an elite fighter. Matthew Hatton ... not so much.

[Mexican Bidness]

Originally Posted by TonyGe

It's also all part of the game to critisize fights. It's going to happen. Catchweight fights are just asking for it IMO. Personally I believe if a fighter wants to move up and win a title the win suspect if his opponent is at a catchweight. An example was the Leonard Lalonde fight. They fought for the 175 pound title and 168 pound title in the same bout. Lalonde looked dehydrated to me. There is no question that Leonard is the superior fighter but winning the 175 pound title should not involve restricting the champions weight.

No the fight made sense. You are confused. You’re not giving credit to Lalonde. Dude this is boxing. It means Lalonde had the opportunity and camp to be also a Super Middleweight Champion. It’s no different with Bivol calling out Callum Smith for his 168 belt. It means the boxer KNOWS what he needs to do. That Super Middleweight bout was new, it was an opportunity for Lalonde. Did you even watch the fight? Lalonde did good in Round 4. He should’ve imposed his size and inside game. That round Donny was dominant, and Leonard got lucky. Leonard was just faster because he was the smaller guy so it evens out. Just like Floyd was too quick responsively to whatever Canelo did.

A better example is Andre Ward having Dawson come to 168.

[Mexican Bidness]

Originally Posted by SteveM

Breadman said it pretty clear - some catchweight fights are exploitative, others are not. Meldrick Taylor was an elite fighter. Matthew Hatton ... not so much.

Was Chad Dawson an elite fighter?

[TonyGe]

Originally Posted by Mexican Bidness

No the fight made sense. You are confused. You’re not giving credit to Lalonde. Dude this is boxing. It means Lalonde had the opportunity and camp to be also a Super Middleweight Champion. It’s no different with Bivol calling out Callum Smith for his 168 belt. It means the boxer KNOWS what he needs to do. That Super Middleweight bout was new, it was an opportunity for Lalonde. Did you even watch the fight? Lalonde did good in Round 4. He should’ve imposed his size and inside game. That round Donny was dominant, and Leonard got lucky. Leonard was just faster because he was the smaller guy so it evens out. Just like Floyd was too quick responsively to whatever Canelo did.

A better example is Andre Ward having Dawson come to 168.

Of course I watched the fight. I watched on live TV as it happened. I thought the same thing when it was announced. It was a bit of a farce. Yes he had a chance to win the 168 title after he cut an extra seven pounds of weight. If you are OK with it that's fine. However don't be surprised when their validity is called into question. Let's face it it's more about the money making opportunity than being a legitimate champion. As far as the rounds go you would expect that the longer a fight goes the more a general weakness brought on by a a severe weight cut would show up. Look at Canelo. He's not going to go back down to 160 soon becuse of the effect of cutting weight. He had only one fight at 175 and he came from a lighter weight class 154 pounds. No doubt LaLonde was affected by the weight loss.

[Jab jab boom]

Originally Posted by Mexican Bidness

Funny how when Breadman criticizes Canelo for the Hatton fight yet didn’t source his pivotal knowledge for Taylor vs Norris and the WBC..

Here are the original citings for Breadman’s old school hating ass than mug!

Breadman Mailbag
Published On Sat Jun 29, 2019, 07:32 AM EST

“I think Canelo is one heck of a fighter. But he’s the most privileged fighter in boxing history in my opinion. He’s already good and can beat anyone on his best day. But on top of that he can do whatever he wants.

Think about this. He fought Matthew Hatton at a catchweight for his 1st title. Hatton was a welterweight and not a very highly regarded one I might add. But nevertheless he fought Canelo for the junior middleweight title weighing 149.5 lbs.”

Today’s Mailbag

“Fans only complain about how catchweights affect outcomes of fights when their guy doesn’t win. If the bigger guy gets to go down in weight then rehydrate up they claim he was too big. For example Terry Norris vs Meldrick Taylor. Norris had to come down to 149lbs to face Taylor. But because Norris won, “he was too big.”

But when Manny fought Cotto at 145, and Manny won. It was because Cotto had to lose too much weight. But Cotto fans didn’t say that when he fought Daniel Geale and Sergio Martinez at catchweights because he won those fights.

Just because a fighter is fighting at a catchweight doesn’t mean he has an advantage. Sometimes he does. Sometimes he doesn’t. Sometimes it’s just a ploy by one of the teams to get every perceived advantage they can. But it doesn’t mean it’s a real advantage. It’s all a part of the game.“

the critique wasn't mainly about the catchweight. The critique was that in order to get canelo to break a record that truly belonged to Fernando vargas (youngest world champion at 154), an undeserving opportunity was created for Canelo. Canelo, who hadn't done anything at 154 at that time was given a title shot and the opponent that was selected for him was a low ranked welterweight who accomplished nothing at 147 and never fought at 154. How did Matthew Hatton get pushed to the front of the line ahead of actual junior middleweights?? It was an attempt to give canelo the easiest possible chance to win his first title. The catchweight is much less significant than that.

[Mexican Bidness]

Originally Posted by TonyGe

Of course I watched the fight. I watched on live TV as it happened. I thought the same thing when it was announced. It was a bit of a farce. Yes he had a chance to win the 168 title after he cut an extra seven pounds of weight. If you are OK with it that's fine. However don't be surprised when their validity is called into question. Let's face it it's more about the money making opportunity than being a legitimate champion. As far as the rounds go you would expect that the longer a fight goes the more a general weakness brought on by a a severe weight cut would show up. Look at Canelo. He's not going to go back down to 160 soon becuse of the effect of cutting weight. He had only one fight at 175 and he came from a lighter weight class 154 pounds. No doubt LaLonde was affected by the weight loss.

Lalonde’s physique was good at 168. He looked better at that weight than 175. “Affected by the weight loss” is subjective and in that era Lalonde would’ve easily said he was handicapped because of the weight. He didn’t. He gave SRL all the credit and stated he couldn’t compete with the speed. Lalonde was trying to box with SRL! He should’ve done the Round 4 blueprint till the end, the same way Maidana imposed awkward weight and rushing to Floyd. Even Kovalev had moments bull rushing Canelo and it worked.

I’ve got 15lbs of my “seasonal” weight in the ring to realize my power isn’t as effective. Sure, Lalonde would’ve been stronger at 175. But draining, no. Look what happened to Chavez jr. with Canelo. Chavez has the best camp ever to cut weight. High altitude training in Mexico with Beristain. His physique was better than his 160 fight with Martinez! It simply means that Chavez Jr. isn’t as strong as he seemed without blowing up 20lbs+ in his Middleweight reign. HBO let it slide with the rehydration because of the name. But Chavez Jr. realized it didn’t matter how optimal he was. He couldn’t outbox Canelo or match the natural strength.

[Oregonian]

Originally Posted by SteveM

Breadman said it pretty clear - some catchweight fights are exploitative, others are not. Meldrick Taylor was an elite fighter. Matthew Hatton ... not so much.

—————

There’s also what the head coach says about catch weights.
Freddie Roach is on record multiple times saying “I have to get my guy (PAC) every advantage”.

Or “Floyd’s legs are almost gone, in another year Manny will define ready for Floyd” - this was in Nov, 2009 after Manny beat Cotto at the145Ibs catchweight.

Yet PAC’s fan and other analysts will try to tell you Floyd ducked a guy who wasn’t ready to fight at 147 and was waiting for Floyd’s legs to tire aka waiting for Floyd to get old.

Breadman might be right in the general context but when a head coach is on record stating shít like that 👆, well, we know better