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Old 02-11-2019, 08:30 AM #1
HitmanTommy HitmanTommy is offline
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Default Would a middleweight be able to pull this off?

Would a middleweight be able to get a natural heavyweight to take a standing 8 count? So me and some friends had a debate on whether a middleweight could get a hw to take an 8 count within 3 rounds of the middleweight punching the heavyweight. The heavyweight is only allowed to cover up and block. The heavyweight will not be allowed to run. He will have to stand his ground. So for 3 rounds, the middle weight will unleash an offensive onslaught throwing everything but the kitchen sink. Could someone like Canelo, GGG or Hagler get a heavyweight like Lennox or Fury to take an 8 count within 3 rounds?
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:38 AM #2
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How much do you weigh? I'm 160lbs and I bet I can knock you spark out!
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:39 AM #3
Kaspa9t9 Kaspa9t9 is online now
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Originally Posted by HitmanTommy View Post
Would a middleweight be able to get a natural heavyweight to take a standing 8 count? So me and some friends had a debate on whether a middleweight could get a hw to take an 8 count within 3 rounds of the middleweight punching the heavyweight. The heavyweight is only allowed to cover up and block. The heavyweight will not be allowed to run. He will have to stand his ground. So for 3 rounds, the middle weight will unleash an offensive onslaught throwing everything but the kitchen sink. Could someone like Canelo, GGG or Hagler get a heavyweight like Lennox or Fury to take an 8 count within 3 rounds?
If the HW has to sit stationary and take a barrage, then yes seems very possible.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:26 AM #4
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no doubt. adonis stevenson was known for knocking several HW's out in sparring when he was at 168.

toney, mcclellan and others were known to brutalize men regardless of size in the gym. mcclellan basically only sparred bigger guys (post kronk) because hardly anyone else could even give him rounds before they went down.

patterson was a middleweight as an amateur, what he did to HW's in the gym is part of what prompted him to fight bigger men as a pro (the money obviously being the main reason).

julian jackson could flat line most HW's with relative ease.

its not hard to hurt bigger men, a puncher is a puncher. problem (if there is one) is they can generally do the same damn near effortlessly.
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:12 AM #5
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I’d bet money that Jacobs, Canelo, Charlo, GGG, and Lemieux would knock a hw out let alone a standing count. I mean..if he’s just standing there? David Price would go down in seconds.

A good few punch combination will drop a HW if we’re talking MW, where the power starts becoming scary for any man on earth. Pretty much from MW up I think the best punchers all drop a hw that lets them punch him

Last edited by NearHypnos; 02-11-2019 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:33 AM #6
Marchegiano Marchegiano is offline
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Yes, look at boxing history. Man has not evolved, the sport has.

Presently we have rules that favor weight because despite popular assumption it was big guys who died in the ring not small guys. That's why all the champions are small for most of history. We made rules so the smaller fellas did not have all day to dance around the big one and then the little guys started to get shoved out. Made weight divisions and everything is considered fair today.


In a system with little to no rules it is the average sized man who does best. That's why it's the average size.....everyone else used to die quite a lot.

No one makes this mistake with little people or mentally retarded folks, but, in the case of the giants people seem to have a bit of cognitive dissonance and selective understanding. The reason you see giants now more than ever is the same reason you see dwarves more than ever. Society keeps them alive not natural order. Naturally speaking they are all weight to be carried by the capable.

Wlad in 1815 would be lucky to survive Cribb let alone beat him.

Just like how today it is deadly to put in a MW with a HW.

The sport evolves not the people.


So, if the question is simply size to power, look at history. I am a kinesiologist and can explain the science but that is not proof it has already happened.
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:36 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HitmanTommy View Post
Would a middleweight be able to get a natural heavyweight to take a standing 8 count? So me and some friends had a debate on whether a middleweight could get a hw to take an 8 count within 3 rounds of the middleweight punching the heavyweight. The heavyweight is only allowed to cover up and block. The heavyweight will not be allowed to run. He will have to stand his ground. So for 3 rounds, the middle weight will unleash an offensive onslaught throwing everything but the kitchen sink. Could someone like Canelo, GGG or Hagler get a heavyweight like Lennox or Fury to take an 8 count within 3 rounds?
You are talking about heavyweights in general or specific big and tall heavyweights like Lewis and Fury?

It's difficult for a middleweight to get full leverage on his punches against a giant heavyweight. Then it depends on how good the heavyweight operates on the ropes.

James Toney would have no Problems rolling shots from the ropes against a middleweight. Is clinching or smothering allowed in your scenario?

Even a guy like Helenius was able to survive against Whyte, he didnt use a lot of movement, but used negative tactics like not engaging, leaning out of range and clinching whenever whyte stepped in too Close. If a boxer is set on surviving, it is really difficult to knock him out.

But if we are talking about heavyweights whose offense are their defense, guys who dont know how to fight defensively and have no clue about blocking, rolling and slipping shots, it's possible if they are only allowed to block and not allowed to run that they would take enough clean shots for the Referee to step in.
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:39 PM #8
Koba-Grozny Koba-Grozny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marchegiano View Post
Yes, look at boxing history. Man has not evolved, the sport has.

Presently we have rules that favor weight because despite popular assumption it was big guys who died in the ring not small guys. That's why all the champions are small for most of history. We made rules so the smaller fellas did not have all day to dance around the big one and then the little guys started to get shoved out. Made weight divisions and everything is considered fair today.


In a system with little to no rules it is the average sized man who does best. That's why it's the average size.....everyone else used to die quite a lot.

No one makes this mistake with little people or mentally retarded folks, but, in the case of the giants people seem to have a bit of cognitive dissonance and selective understanding. The reason you see giants now more than ever is the same reason you see dwarves more than ever. Society keeps them alive not natural order. Naturally speaking they are all weight to be carried by the capable.

Wlad in 1815 would be lucky to survive Cribb let alone beat him.

Just like how today it is deadly to put in a MW with a HW.

The sport evolves not the people.


So, if the question is simply size to power, look at history. I am a kinesiologist and can explain the science but that is not proof it has already happened.
The observation on shorter fights favouring larger men makes perfect logical sense to me, and I'd be interested in seeing a size comparison of top level fighters through the ages, but it doesn't answer this question specifically.

Although it's clear that punching power is far more a question of technique (kinematic chains is a phrase you've used a few times) than sheer mass, I'd assume there's some absolute limits. How small a man, IYO would be able to achieve the results the TS specifies... just a guesstimate of course.

What do you reckon are the most outstanding examples in history of small guys with KO success against larger guys... Fitzsimmons is the obvious one of course, but there must be others.
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:42 PM #9
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The thing about a real fight is, its pretty difficult to really load up and land a shot with everything behind it, especially against a bigger man. But if you mean if the heavyweight stood still and let a middle punch them full force on the jaw, then for sure. Rubin Carter and Nigel Benn knocked out heavyweights through headguards in sparring.
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:50 PM #10
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I think if you take a top middleweight and put him against a low level heavyweight, then yeah it’s very possible.

In fact, if we knew going in that it was someone of the likes of Canelo or Jacobs against an unskilled heavyweight, then I would probably bet on the heavyweight getting KOed. Skill level heavily comes into play here. Not even power really, just shear skill. If a well trained, experienced middleweight who knows where to place his punches right goes up against a fat, unconditioned heavyweight, I think the middleweight would win almost every time.

Now if skills were equal, this wouldn’t be the case.
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