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Old 06-08-2006, 11:12 AM #1
Heckler Heckler is offline
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Default Greats of the past Vs Modern heavies.

Modern Heavies vs greats of the past.

Would the modern fighters completely overwhelm the likes of Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Sonny Liston with their larger waistlines and 'sports science' or would the work rates of say Joe Frazier cause Wlad klitschko to go into cardiac arrest? Would the swiftness of Ali and the technical brilliance of Joe Louis totally outclass the 7 foot giant Nikolay Valuev?

Your thoughts?

I'll give some of mine. The emphasis on weight is ridiculous.. yes modern heavyweights are 20-30 pounds heavier, but how much of that is lean muscle mass that equates into superior functional strength and power? Would anyone here favour Wlad Klitschko over George Foreman in a center-ring pushing and shoving contest? Does anyone here think that Vitali Klitschko is a better puncher then Sonny Liston?

Liston is an interesting example. Would he be champ today? Even if you threw Vitali in the mix i would be rather confident Sonny would be the HW champion. Solid boxing skills, a strong jab, huge reach, physical strength, and devestating punching power in both hands. I don't think any of the current crop have the depth in their skillsets to nullify the offense of a prime Sonny Liston. A six foot, 212 pound prime Liston would slay these giants.

Your opinions and analyses of how other greats would perform in the HW division are welcomed.
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:40 AM #2
K-DOGG K-DOGG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heckler
Modern Heavies vs greats of the past.

Would the modern fighters completely overwhelm the likes of Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Sonny Liston with their larger waistlines and 'sports science' or would the work rates of say Joe Frazier cause Wlad klitschko to go into cardiac arrest? Would the swiftness of Ali and the technical brilliance of Joe Louis totally outclass the 7 foot giant Nikolay Valuev?

Your thoughts?

I'll give some of mine. The emphasis on weight is ridiculous.. yes modern heavyweights are 20-30 pounds heavier, but how much of that is lean muscle mass that equates into superior functional strength and power? Would anyone here favour Wlad Klitschko over George Foreman in a center-ring pushing and shoving contest? Does anyone here think that Vitali Klitschko is a better puncher then Sonny Liston?

Liston is an interesting example. Would he be champ today? Even if you threw Vitali in the mix i would be rather confident Sonny would be the HW champion. Solid boxing skills, a strong jab, huge reach, physical strength, and devestating punching power in both hands. I don't think any of the current crop have the depth in their skillsets to nullify the offense of a prime Sonny Liston. A six foot, 212 pound prime Liston would slay these giants.

Your opinions and analyses of how other greats would perform in the HW division are welcomed.
There is no need for me to elaborate on your already eloquently stated point. K to you for stating the obvious.

Too much is made of the size of today's heavyweights, while ignoring the greater hunger...in most cases...of fighters of poorer days gone by, as well as too much ignoring of the physical downsides of being bigger...less stamina, less speed, less mobility and elusiveness.

Sure, some of yesterday's fighters very well could have fallen prey to teh sheer mass of the dinosaurs of today; but how many of todays mastadons would fall prey to the accurate spears of yesterday's hunters?

To automatically presume today's athletes would have the "advantage" over yesterday's champions in just as great a sin as presuming the fighters of yesteryear would unequivacably blow throught the best of today's lot.

For everything gained, ther is someting lost. Yesterday, they fought 20 rounds or more regularly, and did so being far more active than most of today's champions give them credit. They held their hands low...not all; and if faced with opponents who didn't, don't you think they would raise their guard?

Any man who has ever worn the mantle "World Champion" deserves just as much respect as any other...whether he wore the belt in 1910 or 2010, for to be a "champion", a true champion, is to be a breed apart.
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:41 AM #3
K-DOGG K-DOGG is offline
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...sorry; but I can't give you any K until I "spread it around".
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:54 AM #4
THE REAL NINJA THE REAL NINJA is offline
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good post ....i think in the long run it would end up about 50/50 you will always find a mis-match that you didnt expect. When you only look at champions Vs champions you kinda know who would have won the fights,but if you bring the also rans into the mix you never know ...lets say Sam Peter Vs Ken Norton , Norton has the name and the history but Sam would have a better chance with Norton then lets say Holyfield ...obviously this goes both ways so in the long run threw the history of boxing IMO all the dream match ups between era's ends up a draw .....
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Old 06-08-2006, 03:58 PM #5
RockyMarcianofan00 RockyMarcianofan00 is offline
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The answer is most of the fighters of the past would outclass fighters of today. Though fighters of the past tended to be lighter there training was natrual and there size was real, unlike some of todays contenders who's sizes are just do to the fact they took many supplements to gain them weight.

Some of todays Heavyweight contenders are natrual middleweights, that says it all.
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Old 06-08-2006, 05:26 PM #6
Hard Boiled HK Hard Boiled HK is offline
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I just simply like the old school guys better: Ali, Louis, Marciano, Fraizer, Liston, etc.
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Old 06-08-2006, 05:30 PM #7
RockyMarcianofan00 RockyMarcianofan00 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hard Boiled HK
I just simply like the old school guys better: Ali, Louis, Marciano, Fraizer, Liston, etc.
I just believe old school fighters were trained better and had more heart, I mean one of the only modern fighters that i know has alot of heart IMO is Mickey Ward (welterweight). there's probably a few others but Nobody trains as well as they used too.
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:23 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyMarcianofan00
I just believe old school fighters were trained better and had more heart, I mean one of the only modern fighters that i know has alot of heart IMO is Mickey Ward (welterweight). there's probably a few others but Nobody trains as well as they used too.
Yeah, like James Toney.
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:29 PM #9
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Old timers, easily. it's simple. all sports where skill/technique is involved, 90% of the time the skilled guy wins. This is evident in boxing.
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:54 PM #10
Brassangel Brassangel is offline
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The fighters used to be very offensive minded: They had their style, they went with it, and lost matches when the styles contradicted one another. Today, the fighters are very cautious, and usually wait for counterpunching opportunities. It makes for fights that are less entertaining, less flashy, and rather lackluster. That doesn't mean that the fighters of today are any less amazing than the fighters of old, but it does make it more difficult for an icon to emerge without some sort of signature style to be attracted to.
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