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Old 01-23-2013, 07:42 PM #11
Kagami Taiga Kagami Taiga is offline
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Originally Posted by Russian Crushin View Post
Thats the point, a lineal champ is between the 2 top fighter, unanimously (even tho there is no such thing). Ward was unanimous #1 by everybody but #2 was up for grabs between Froch and Bute. THere was no concrete #2. Ward was given the Ring belt, it doesnt always follow the lineage tho. Lineal champ is a title, its not given, its earned by #1 fighting #2. There is no belt.

The Ring likes to give its belt away, i mean you can have a RIng champ by having #2 v #5, but it doesnt always follow a lineal champ. For example Hernandez, Vlad, Garcia are not lineal champs yet they hold Ring belts. Cotto-Margarito also did not form a lineage because Williams was the unanimous #2 after beating Margarito at that time.

Im not trying to accomplish anything, just stating facts
Andre ward won his lineage against froch. u distinguish the ring belt from lineal title but u still use butes rankings in the ring to suppot you argument. when ward fought froch, most saw it as the #1 guy fighting the #2. i dunno why anyone thought bute was #2, that doesnt even make sense to me. he had no agument whatsoever for the position outside of the ring ranking in fact. ward established lineage over froch in that fight. everyone credible pretty much agrees with that, in fat like i said, ive never head anyone say otherwise. i think even cliff has ward as lineal.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:01 PM #12
Russian Crushin Russian Crushin is offline
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Originally Posted by DempseyRollin View Post
Andre ward won his lineage against froch. u distinguish the ring belt from lineal title but u still use butes rankings in the ring to suppot you argument. when ward fought froch, most saw it as the #1 guy fighting the #2. i dunno why anyone thought bute was #2, that doesnt even make sense to me. he had no agument whatsoever for the position outside of the ring ranking in fact. ward established lineage over froch in that fight. everyone credible pretty much agrees with that, in fat like i said, ive never head anyone say otherwise. i think even cliff has ward as lineal.
Thats to show that Froch was not the unanimous #2 in the divisions. Others had Bute ahead of froch as well after Froch lost to Kessler. Yea i think Cliff has him as lineal champ and thats fine but he also has Vlad and Hernandez as Lineal champs and they certainly are not.

Im just saying, this is what was happening before Froch beat Bute. Theres a reason he was an underdog in that fight and people thought he would lose.

People try so hard to make lineal champs, when it shouldnt be that easy
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:05 PM #13
Kagami Taiga Kagami Taiga is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Crushin View Post
Thats to show that Froch was not the unanimous #2 in the divisions. Others had Bute ahead of froch as well after Froch lost to Kessler. Yea i think Cliff has him as lineal champ and thats fine but he also has Vlad and Hernandez as Lineal champs and they certainly are not.

Im just saying, this is what was happening before Froch beat Bute. Theres a reason he was an underdog in that fight and people thought he would lose.

People try so hard to make lineal champs, when it shouldnt be that easy
in this case, it absolutely should be. like i said, and ill say it again, i see no basis or justification for having bute ahead of froch at the time of the ward fight. if u wanna use the ring, go ahead. but even they gave ward their belt. froch's resume was at the time much better than bute's. that he was the underdog in their fight doesnt really say much for the truth, which is froch had every right to be the #2 smw and bute had no right being #2
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:23 PM #14
boliodogs boliodogs is offline
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Yes. He is clearly the best and he proved it in the ring against all the top guys. Right now Froch is the #2 guy and Kessler is the #3 guy and Ward easily beat both of them. The only guy who had a right to dispute Ward's claim as the true champion was Butte. Butte lost that right when he was KOed by Froch shortly after Ward had defeated Froch. No 168 pounder has a serious claim to being the real champ except Ward and so he is the lineal champ. He does not have to beat the same guys over again to prove it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:06 PM #15
lefthook2daliva lefthook2daliva is offline
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If not Ward, who?
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:22 PM #16
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If Ward isn't the lineal champ at 168, there is no such thing as a lineal champ.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:38 PM #17
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:15 PM #18
Andre Wardttke Andre Wardttke is offline
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Can no longer be considered lineal champ as from Monday as he'll have been inactive for a year with no fight scheduled. He vacates, becomes unranked and Froch remains the number one ranked contender.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:16 PM #19
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Like others have mentioned, it really depends where you had Bute ranked at the time.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:19 PM #20
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Is this a joke? of course he is thats commonsense
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