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Old 10-28-2011, 06:50 PM #1
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Default Marciano: alternate legacy

Rocky Marciano is one of my all time favorite fighters, but how would his legacy have fared had he not beaten Charles, Louis, Walcott and Moore? Without those all time greats on his resume does it drop him significantly in the all time heavyweight rankings? I have Marciano currently at 10. Without those names though I believe he surely falls out of the top 20. Opinions?
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:46 PM #2
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I'm not sure he'd rank at all without those names.
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Old 10-28-2011, 10:16 PM #3
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
Rocky Marciano is one of my all time favorite fighters, but how would his legacy have fared had he not beaten Charles, Louis, Walcott and Moore? Without those all time greats on his resume does it drop him significantly in the all time heavyweight rankings? I have Marciano currently at 10. Without those names though I believe he surely falls out of the top 20. Opinions?

If you take away those names, then Rocky wasn't even really the heavyweight champion. So all you would have left is an unbeaten heavyweight who beat mostly unimpressive competition. That would make him out of any top 20 for sure. He'd be a little higher than Joe Mesi I guess.

Last edited by Scott9945; 10-28-2011 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 10-28-2011, 10:56 PM #4
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
Rocky Marciano is one of my all time favorite fighters, but how would his legacy have fared had he not beaten Charles, Louis, Walcott and Moore? Without those all time greats on his resume does it drop him significantly in the all time heavyweight rankings? I have Marciano currently at 10. Without those names though I believe he surely falls out of the top 20. Opinions?
And it was those fights which cemented the Rocky legend; the come from behind KO against Walcott, one more round against Charles etc. A lot would depend on who he beat instead. Assuming he still wins the title, we'd have probably seen defences against the likes of Nino Valdes, Bob Baker, Tommy Jackson and Bob Satterfield (which would have been a barnburner for the few rounds it lasted!). Overall not really inspiring. He'd still have the gloss of being undefeated, but undefeated against who? With a resume like that I can see him dropping out of the top 20.

Something else to ponder: if one judge had scored one round differently Marciano would have lost to LaStarza. What would his legacy be today if he'd ended his career 48-1 instead of 49-0?
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:18 PM #5
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Well the fact is he beat all those guys, and by K.O., and some of them multiple times.

But yes if he didn't have those guys, his best wins would be lastarza and matthews which would hardly make him top 20
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Old 10-29-2011, 01:33 AM #6
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
Rocky Marciano is one of my all time favorite fighters, but how would his legacy have fared had he not beaten Charles, Louis, Walcott and Moore? Without those all time greats on his resume does it drop him significantly in the all time heavyweight rankings? I have Marciano currently at 10. Without those names though I believe he surely falls out of the top 20. Opinions?
Could knock the top 4 fighters off most fighters resumes and knock em a fair way down though surely Jabs?
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Old 10-29-2011, 01:58 AM #7
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
Rocky Marciano is one of my all time favorite fighters, but how would his legacy have fared had he not beaten Charles, Louis, Walcott and Moore? Without those all time greats on his resume does it drop him significantly in the all time heavyweight rankings? I have Marciano currently at 10. Without those names though I believe he surely falls out of the top 20. Opinions?
I like Rocky Marciano. He's not in my all-time top 10 Heavyweights because I feel he had somewhat easy opposition. An old Jersey Joe, an old Ezzard Charles, an old Joe Louis, an old Archie Moore......

I'm also glad to see that Kid McCoy mentioned the LaStarza fight. Even though the Rock won that fight on the score-cards, that decision was in hot dispute for some time. LaStarza was thought to be a golden boy & many thought Marciano was too crude to really go anywhere. When Rocky won, it wasn't popular at the time.

Writing some negatives on such a highly esteemed champion feels almost dirty. But if you take a real close inspection of his opposition, it was over-all not too strong.

None of that is Rocky's fault. His manager Al Weill really moved Rocky in a way that provided the minimum risk while still keeping him somewhat active. To that end, Weill was a very good manager. Albeit not the most scrupulous when it came to the Rock's part of the purse.

Still, his all-out "swing for the fences, kill with every shot" style of fighting, his enormous heart, his humble & gracious attitude, his loyalty to his parents & friends, etc all combine to make Rocky Marciano a bonafide legend. He's hard not to like.

But yes JAB, take away the fights you mentioned and the Rock's all-time legacy greatly diminishes. Not as low a ranked fighter as a Lee Canalito, but he'd be nothing special compared to other great champions.
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Old 10-29-2011, 02:49 AM #8
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ezzard charles was not old, joe louis was only 37 and on a 10 fight win streak, archie moore was like the bhop of the old HW's
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:31 AM #9
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ezzard charles was not old, joe louis was only 37 and on a 10 fight win streak, archie moore was like the bhop of the old HW's
Lets look at the fights for what they were. Charles was certainly shopworn. I'll be glad to entertain any disagreements. Louis? Come on, let's be real. Should Moore be considered more than lets say today's Arreola for what he actually did? Walcott?

My point is that many want to rate fighters today, but they don't have the resume to be deserving. Im not trying to argue h2h, but resumes don't lie if you look at them in detail.
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:39 AM #10
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The greats that Marciano beat were all at the end of their careers and were shells of their former selfs. Marciano does not even make my list of 20 greatest heavyweights.ccWith exception Charles was only 32 or so but was a light heavyweight..............Rockin'

Last edited by Rockin'; 10-29-2011 at 06:45 AM.
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