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Old 06-03-2011, 06:59 PM #1
Perfect Plex Perfect Plex is offline
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Default Has There Ever Been Worst USA Heavyweight's Than Today?

Well? Has USA ever had as bad a HW division as this?

The best USA Heavyweights are the following.

The Top Tier USA Heavyweights
-Eddie Chambers
-Chris Arreola
-Tony Thomspon
-Kevin Johnson

Rest Of USA Heavyweights
-Franklin Lawrence
-Evander Holyfield
-Ray Austin
-Hasim Rahman
-Cedric Boswell
-Michael Grant
-Shannon Briggs
-Oliver McCall
-Derric Rossy
-James Toney
-Seth Mitchell
-Maurice Harris
-Jason Estrada
-Monte Barrett
-Johnathon Banks
-Chazz Witherspoon
-Dominick Guinn
-Travis Walker
-DaVarryl Williamson
-Jason Gavern
-Bowie Tupou
-Manuel Quezada
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:20 PM #2
Wild Blue Yonda Wild Blue Yonda is offline
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I don't believe there's been a worse period, no. Not personally. I can't remember one so abysmal in my lifetime (& for Americans, there was a lot of bemoaning being done during the 80's, let me tell you), & looking back through history, I can't find another timeframe where it looks as shallow as today.

They're not even simply mediocre --- many of them are grossly out-of-shape, too. I mean, of all fundamentals to get down for a boxer, you'd expect keeping in-shape to be top of your list, & we're not talking about guys who just don't seem to have the lungs for the distance (like a De La Hoya, for instance), we're talking about men fighting for millions of dollars, & their own name & history, who are in worse ostensible shape than your everyman in the street. It only compounds their already glaring flaws.
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:23 PM #3
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For sure, this is as bad as it has ever been.

Where have all the Larry Holmes' gone?
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:47 PM #4
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For sure, this is as bad as it has ever been.

Where have all the Larry Holmes' gone?
The NBA and NFL.
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Old 06-04-2011, 04:36 AM #5
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Originally Posted by Wild Blue Yonda View Post
I don't believe there's been a worse period, no. Not personally. I can't remember one so abysmal in my lifetime (& for Americans, there was a lot of bemoaning being done during the 80's, let me tell you), & looking back through history, I can't find another timeframe where it looks as shallow as today.

They're not even simply mediocre --- many of them are grossly out-of-shape, too. I mean, of all fundamentals to get down for a boxer, you'd expect keeping in-shape to be top of your list, & we're not talking about guys who just don't seem to have the lungs for the distance (like a De La Hoya, for instance), we're talking about men fighting for millions of dollars, & their own name & history, who are in worse ostensible shape than your everyman in the street. It only compounds their already glaring flaws.
There's definitely been a clear and marked decline in the quality of American heavyweights in the last ten years, and I'm not buying the whole "it's only because the Eastern Europeans are dominant" argument either. Even were you to take the EEs out of the equation, I don't think you could hide the generally sorry state of the American scene. Chambers has skills and a bit of bottle, but I just can't see him being anything more than a tough B fighter in the 90s, someone who wouldn't totally disgrace himself in the ring against the top guys, but wouldn't win against them either. Johnson also has a bit of skill, but he's a totally negative nancy with no power. Thompson is just awful. He makes comeback Foreman look like Roy Jones. Even in his heyday I doubt he'd be anything more than a tough but very beatable journeyman, and probably wouldn't have seen a sniff at the title unless he was very, very lucky. Arreola at least has the good grace to be exciting, and seems to be making an attempt to get into shape, but that can't disguise his absolutely crude and barely-above-clubfighter skills. He's not the absolute worst, but the fact that some people are calling him the best American heavyweight is quite sad and revealing. The rest of the boxers on that list are either terrible, or terrible and way past their prime.

I won't be unrealistic and pine for the next Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe etc, but for gawd's sake can't we at least have a new Tommy Morrison or something?
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Old 06-04-2011, 04:37 AM #6
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The NBA and NFL.
An unprovable and hackneyed supposition.
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Old 06-04-2011, 05:33 AM #7
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Originally Posted by Old Mongoose View Post
Well? Has USA ever had as bad a HW division as this?

The best USA Heavyweights are the following.

The Top Tier USA Heavyweights
-Eddie Chambers
-Chris Arreola
-Tony Thomspon
-Kevin Johnson

Rest Of USA Heavyweights
-Franklin Lawrence
-Evander Holyfield
-Ray Austin
-Hasim Rahman
-Cedric Boswell
-Michael Grant
-Shannon Briggs
-Oliver McCall
-Derric Rossy
-James Toney
-Seth Mitchell
-Maurice Harris
-Jason Estrada
-Monte Barrett
-Johnathon Banks
-Chazz Witherspoon
-Dominick Guinn
-Travis Walker
-DaVarryl Williamson
-Jason Gavern
-Bowie Tupou
-Manuel Quezada
I honestly thought about 6 boxers in that second list were dead.
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Old 06-04-2011, 05:49 AM #8
Welsh Jon Welsh Jon is offline
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Originally Posted by Wild Blue Yonda View Post

They're not even simply mediocre --- many of them are grossly out-of-shape, too. I mean, of all fundamentals to get down for a boxer, you'd expect keeping in-shape to be top of your list, & we're not talking about guys who just don't seem to have the lungs for the distance (like a De La Hoya, for instance), we're talking about men fighting for millions of dollars, & their own name & history, who are in worse ostensible shape than your everyman in the street. It only compounds their already glaring flaws.

I wonder if for some this is deliberate, do some look at the klitschko brothers and think they need to weight 250 lbs + to compete? American based Cuban Odlainder Solis weighted around 220-230lbs as an amateur, but as a pro he ballooned up to over 280lbs at one point. Even for his biggest ever pro fight vs Vitali he was nearly 250lbs. And once fat boy went down fat boy couldn't get up. If he had the dedication to be a top class amateur athlete, why couldn't he sustain it as a pro? Have the Klits made everyone thing bigger is better in the heavyweight division, or are the majority of heavyweights, particulary American-based one simply lazy?
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Old 06-04-2011, 06:14 AM #9
nomadman nomadman is offline
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I wonder if for some this is deliberate, do some look at the klitschko brothers and think they need to weight 250 lbs + to compete? American based Cuban Odlainder Solis weighted around 220-230lbs as an amateur, but as a pro he ballooned up to over 280lbs at one point. Even for his biggest ever pro fight vs Vitali he was nearly 250lbs. And once fat boy went down fat boy couldn't get up. If he had the dedication to be a top class amateur athlete, why couldn't he sustain it as a pro? Have the Klits made everyone thing bigger is better in the heavyweight division, or are the majority of heavyweights, particulary American-based one simply lazy?
Whilst I think there's a kernel of truth in thinking that being heavier improves your punch resistance, I simply think most of these fighters are just plain lazy. For Arreola this is certainly true, and he's not shied away from admitting it. As for Solis, I think that with Cubans especially their lifestyles are so harsh and their training regimes so strictly regimented growing up that once they defect they get overwhelmed by the amount of things they can do (I can eat fast food! I can party till the early hours!!) that they can't maintain that discipline on their own. That's my theory at least. Don't know how closely it holds to the truth of the matter. Regardless, it results in the same outcome: grossly out of shape athletes.

I really don't see that there's any reason to be big to compete. The Klits themselves are only around the 240lb mark, relatively lean for such big men. A six foot three 230lb -ish fighter would have a 10lb weight disadvantage, but would have the advantage of being able to compete at a high level and maintain good movement around the ring. That's far preferable to any possible improvement in punch resistance; look where that got Shannon Briggs after all.
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Old 06-04-2011, 06:42 AM #10
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I remember in the 70's people were complaining about how bad the heavyweight division was.
I remember the same of the 80's
I remember the same of the 90's
I remember the same of the 2000's

If they did it now, finally I would say they are right!
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