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Old 07-26-2010, 08:02 PM #1
Southpaw Great Southpaw Great is offline
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Default Rate These Heavyweights In Order Of Greatness.....

Joe Frazier
Lennox Lewis
Harry Willis
Max Schmeling
Peter Jackson
Jim Jeffries
Ken Norton
Floyd Patterson
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:11 PM #2
Obama Obama is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseySugar View Post
Joe Frazier
Lennox Lewis
Harry Willis
Max Schmeling
Peter Jackson
Jim Jeffries
Ken Norton
Floyd Patterson
Lewis
Wills, not Willis
Frazier
Jeffries
Schmeling
Jackson
Patterson
Norton

Norton anywhere but at the very bottom is entirely unacceptable.
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:16 PM #3
JAB5239 JAB5239 is offline
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Default

Lewis
Fraizer
Jeffries
Wills
Jackson
Norton
Patterson
Schmelling
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:18 PM #4
JAB5239 JAB5239 is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama View Post
Lewis
Wills, not Willis
Frazier
Jeffries
Schmeling
Jackson
Patterson
Norton

Norton anywhere but at the very bottom is entirely unacceptable.
I could accept an argument for Patterson being above Norton, but not Schmeling. Jmo.
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:20 PM #5
Obama Obama is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
I could accept an argument for Patterson being above Norton, but not Schmeling. Jmo.
Schmeling beat a young Joe Louis and Jack Sharkey. Norton beat an old Ali. No comparison to be made quite frankly.
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:54 PM #6
StarshipTrooper StarshipTrooper is offline
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Default

Joe Frazier
Harry Wills
Lennox Lewis
Jim Jeffries
Peter Jackson
Floyd Patterson
Max Schmeling
Ken Norton
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:02 PM #7
JAB5239 JAB5239 is offline
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Although we may disagree, I completely understand you. - Dominicano Soy! A lucky charm 4 ya homey - mangler To my boy JAB for keeping it real at all times - Kevin Jesus To a cool guy - Stoppage for being a heavyweight in history section - led 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama View Post
Schmeling beat a young Joe Louis and Jack Sharkey. Norton beat an old Ali. No comparison to be made quite frankly.
I like Schmeling a lot. I consider him a great person. But he doesn't rate above Norton in my opinion. The version of Louis who he beat was young, ****y and spending more time on the golf course than in the gym. Against Sharkey he won by DQ. Its a win, but more of a case can be made that Sharkey beat himself than Schmeling actually beating him. Plus Jack won the rematch and was obviously past it losing his next fight to Carnera and going on a skid.

Norton beat Ali when he was 31, cleaning out the division after losing to Frazier and still hadn't fought his arguably two greatest fight (Foreman and Frazier III). His style was simply all wrong for Ali, while Louis learned from his mistakes and dominated Max in the rematch. Personally I thought Norton won 2 of 3, but many believe he won all of them.
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:51 PM #8
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
I like Schmeling a lot. I consider him a great person. But he doesn't rate above Norton in my opinion. The version of Louis who he beat was young, ****y and spending more time on the golf course than in the gym. Against Sharkey he won by DQ. Its a win, but more of a case can be made that Sharkey beat himself than Schmeling actually beating him. Plus Jack won the rematch and was obviously past it losing his next fight to Carnera and going on a skid.

Norton beat Ali when he was 31, cleaning out the division after losing to Frazier and still hadn't fought his arguably two greatest fight (Foreman and Frazier III). His style was simply all wrong for Ali, while Louis learned from his mistakes and dominated Max in the rematch. Personally I thought Norton won 2 of 3, but many believe he won all of them.
Joe Louis spending more time playing golf when he was young and hungry for a title? I doubt it. Sounds like some apologists romanticized his first loss.

Ali lost the first Norton fight but he broke his jaw pretty damn early in the fight. That considered, he did pretty damn well. He got a SD, easy enough to assume a SD or even a UD goes Ali's way without the broken jaw. Point being it was close and competitive against a faded Ali. Schmeling on the other hand dominated Louis down the stretch of the first fight and stopped him. As for the rematch, Schmeling was pretty old against Joe Louis at 100%. ~80% Ali in the second fight beat Norton. The third fight which was controversial was basically against a ~65% Ali.

You want to get into circumstances about the Sharkey win then you might as well acknowledge that Norton's next best win was a fight many had him losing (myself included) against Jimmy Young. As many wins as you can nitpick on Schmeling you can with Norton. And quite frankly Schmeling has the considerably deeper resume beyond simply the very best wins.
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Old 07-26-2010, 10:14 PM #9
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Originally Posted by Obama View Post
Joe Louis spending more time playing golf when he was young and hungry for a title? I doubt it. Sounds like some apologists romanticized his first loss.
Call it what you want my man, but its been pretty well documented. At that time Im sure Louis had no idea if he'd ever get a title shot or not. Maybe he thought he reached the pinnacle. But its still a fact he was spending most of his time golfing and not taking his training as serious as Blackburn wanted him to.

Quote:
Ali lost the first Norton fight but he broke his jaw pretty damn early in the fight. That considered, he did pretty damn well. He got a SD, easy enough to assume a SD or even a UD goes Ali's way without the broken jaw. Point being it was close and competitive against a faded Ali.
Ali kept it close because he was an all time great who was tough as nails. That doesn't mean he would have won without his jaw being broken.
Quote:
Schmeling on the other hand dominated Louis down the stretch of the first fight and stopped him. As for the rematch, Schmeling was pretty old against Joe Louis at 100%. ~80% Ali in the second fight beat Norton. The third fight which was controversial was basically against a ~65% Ali.
Im not trying to be rude, but I have no idea what you're trying to prove with these percentages. You have no way to back them up. My point is Louis was still immature and hadn't hit his stride in the first Max fight. Ali was not only a seasoned veteran when he fought Norton the first two times, he still had his two greatest victories ahead of him.

Quote:
You want to get into circumstances about the Sharkey win then you might as well acknowledge that Norton's next best win was a fight many had him losing (myself included) against Jimmy Young. As many wins as you can nitpick on Schmeling you can with Norton. And quite frankly Schmeling has the considerably deeper resume beyond simply the very best wins.
My man, that isn't a circumstance its a fact. I'd also rate Nortons win over Quarry and loss to Holmes better than anything Max did besides the first Louis fight.
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Old 07-26-2010, 10:33 PM #10
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Giving a guy positive points for a clear loss it just sad. The SD was not deserved. As for Quarry, he was past it. How that's impressive is baffling. Definitely not remotely better than actually beating Paulino Uzcudun (x2), Young Stribling, and Steve Hamas. How dare you sir.
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