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Old 07-02-2010, 03:53 PM #1
RockJersey RockJersey is offline
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Question HELP....Puzziling MMA Question

Hi

MMA Section! I was reccomened to post it on here, by a great poster.

Am a big fan of this section But I just wanted to know if you help with a few things regarding the sport of MMA.

You know when you hear people say for example Kit Cope is the Muai Thai fighter in MMA because he was world Muai Thai champion, or that Dan Henderson is 1 of the best wrestlers in MMA, because of his wrestling background.

Should they automatically be considered the best at this art in MMA, because of there accomplishments in that sport? Or not because MMA is a different sport?

Wanderlei Silva was the much better Muai Thai fighter in MMA than Cope was, but then someone will no Cope is because he was world MT champion.

Because I hear people say Gabriel Gonzaga has the better BJJ skills than Antonio Nogueria (Big Nog), because he was the better more accomplished BJJ player.

But then I hear someone say that this isnt BJJ, and Nog has adapoted his BJJ better for MMA. And then I dont know which arguments holds more value.

So my question is, should Marcello Garcia for example be called a world class grappaler in MMA automatically, or would you say that he is not, because he coundt adapt it to MMA?

Then I get confused, because Dan Henderson was a much more accomplished wrestler than Quiton Jackson, but Jackson had the better of the wrestling in there bout.

So a argument breaks out. I say for example Lesnar got the wrestling advantage over Carwin. My friend says why. I say because he was the more accomplished wrestler, but my freind says this isnt on a wrestling mat, this is MMA. So then I just get confussed......

So how do we decide who has better BJJ, Gonzaga or Big Nog? When Nog has looked more impressive in MMA with BJJ, but Gonzaga has the better BJJ record. Same question with Henderson/Rampage in wrestling etc.

Am just so damn puzzeled. Should a fighter who steps into MMA with a world class background in etc BJJ, Judo, Wrestling, be called world class, in MMA, and better than a fighter who hasnt had as good a background in that art, but looked better at adapoting it into MMA?

Hope you get my drift.....

Please give me your opinion and explain......

Thanks Alot.
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Old 07-03-2010, 05:59 PM #2
Kakutogi-Gumi Kakutogi-Gumi is offline
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A lot of fighters are elite from fields of martial arts, giving them advantages in MMA. But being specialists in these areas is not what's going to win you matches. It's about adapting a style that works with one's strengths. Picking up several other arts and making it fit with their abilities.
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Old 07-03-2010, 06:28 PM #3
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Can you call them world class ___ when they come to MMA? sure.

But not everyone can effectively adapt those world class skills to MMA where you have to be wary of more than just what you are world class or a champion at doing.

If you are a Muay Thai Champion but have **** TDD, and thus are more wary of getting taken down than letting your fists and feet fly, you are going to end up looking average.

Henderson is an Olympian but in MMA he can and has been taken down and schooled by a guys who have no wrestling Pedigrees.

Transitioning is one of the most underrated parts of MMA. It's arguably the most important skill a fighter can have.

An MMA fighter has to be good at more than one thing and they need to be able to transition fluidly from one to the other to be successful.
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Old 07-03-2010, 07:34 PM #4
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Originally Posted by SwoleBiceps View Post
Can you call them world class ___ when they come to MMA? sure.

But not everyone can effectively adapt those world class skills to MMA where you have to be wary of more than just what you are world class or a champion at doing.

If you are a Muay Thai Champion but have **** TDD, and thus are more wary of getting taken down than letting your fists and feet fly, you are going to end up looking average.

Henderson is an Olympian but in MMA he can and has been taken down and schooled by a guys who have no wrestling Pedigrees.

Transitioning is one of the most underrated parts of MMA. It's arguably the most important skill a fighter can have.

An MMA fighter has to be good at more than one thing and they need to be able to transition fluidly from one to the other to be successful.
Just to note, when Henderson first transitioned to MMA, wrestling was all he had going for him, but yet he use to absolutely ragdoll people with it. And I'm talking about good fighters, i.e. Big Nog, Gilbert Yvel, Babalu, Ninja Rua, and others. He moved away from his wrestling as he got older and became more of a striker, basically relying on his punching power. I can't see for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if this is in part a product of age, as he doesn't have the endurance to go balls to the wall wrestling with younger and stronger guys anymore.
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Old 07-03-2010, 07:57 PM #5
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Hendo started crosstraining after he got tapped by Frank Shamrock.
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Old 07-03-2010, 08:02 PM #6
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Originally Posted by Nodogoshi View Post
Just to note, when Henderson first transitioned to MMA, wrestling was all he had going for him, but yet he use to absolutely ragdoll people with it. And I'm talking about good fighters, i.e. Big Nog, Gilbert Yvel, Babalu, Ninja Rua, and others. He moved away from his wrestling as he got older and became more of a striker, basically relying on his punching power. I can't see for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if this is in part a product of age, as he doesn't have the endurance to go balls to the wall wrestling with younger and stronger guys anymore.
I don't think it has anything to do with age. He knocked a few guys around with his right hand and then completely forgot about his wrestling. But he has been taken down and schooled by lesser wrestlers. Arona, Ninja, Bustamante, Palhares, Shields, Rampage etc...

But you are right he did use it well earlier in his career, but MMA is much, much different now, and Henderson hasn't evolved much.
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Old 07-03-2010, 08:25 PM #7
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Originally Posted by SwoleBiceps View Post
I don't think it has anything to do with age. He knocked a few guys around with his right hand and then completely forgot about his wrestling. But he has been taken down and schooled by lesser wrestlers. Arona, Ninja, Bustamante, Palhares, Shields, Rampage etc...

But you are right he did use it well earlier in his career, but MMA is much, much different now, and Henderson hasn't evolved much.
I agree that he fell in love with his power, but I still don't think he has the same wrestling ability that he use to. It's tough to say for sure though. I agree that this does not explain the transition, but as for today, I don't think he has the physical ability to work guys over with his wrestling that he once did.
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