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View Poll Results: Who ya got?
Ezzard Charles 14 50.00%
Sugar Ray Leonard 14 50.00%
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Old 01-23-2010, 03:02 PM #1
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Default Ezzard Charles or Ray Leonard?

Who do you rank higher P4P? Ezzard Charles or Sugar Ray Leonard. I see a lot of people ranking Leonard ahead of Charles and for the life of me I cannot see why. I personally have Charles ahead by quite a margin.
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Old 01-23-2010, 03:14 PM #2
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Both Leonard and Charles beat 5 lineal champions.

Leonard beat Benitez, Duran, Kalule, Hearns and Hagler.

Charles beat Maxim, Walcott, Louis, Moore and Lesvenich.

What also needs to be taken into consideration are the top contenders beaten. I think Charles has a big lead on that one. But, then again, Leonard won more lineal titles than Charles.

It's all debatable and I do find them to be pretty close on an all-time great list.
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Old 01-23-2010, 03:54 PM #3
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Originally Posted by Method Checker View Post
What also needs to be taken into consideration are the top contenders beaten. I think Charles has a big lead on that one. But, then again, Leonard won more lineal titles than Charles.

It's all debatable and I do find them to be pretty close on an all-time great list.
Charles was denied a shot at both the Middleweight and Light-Heavyweight titles. Had he got the shot he deserved both times and won, he'd be a 3 weight world champion a time when there were no junior and super divisions. Ezzard Charles beat more HOFers, more elite fighters, more top contenders and fought all comers multiple times.

Leonard is an ATG, but I think Charles is just that much better than Leonard. H2H I'd take Charles too, he'd have busted him up in a MW, SMW or LHW title fight.
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:17 PM #4
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Originally Posted by CCobra View Post
Charles was denied a shot at both the Middleweight and Light-Heavyweight titles. Had he got the shot he deserved both times and won, he'd be a 3 weight world champion a time when there were no junior and super divisions. Ezzard Charles beat more HOFers, more elite fighters, more top contenders and fought all comers multiple times.

Leonard is an ATG, but I think Charles is just that much better than Leonard. H2H I'd take Charles too, he'd have busted him up in a MW, SMW or LHW title fight.
Of those HOFers, who were the better fighters? Leonard beat Duran, Hearns, Hagler and Benitez and he defeated them when they were in their prime.

Charles beat Bivins, Maxim, Walcott, Louis, Moore, L. Marshall and Burley. Granted that's more than Leonard's, but Bivins, Walcott and Louis weren't in their prime. Charles also lost to Walcott twice afterward.
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:26 PM #5
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Originally Posted by CCobra View Post
Who do you rank higher P4P? Ezzard Charles or Sugar Ray Leonard. I see a lot of people ranking Leonard ahead of Charles and for the life of me I cannot see why. I personally have Charles ahead by quite a margin.
Because most human beings lack perspective.

Last edited by wmute; 01-23-2010 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 01-23-2010, 05:53 PM #6
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Originally Posted by Method Checker View Post
Of those HOFers, who were the better fighters? Leonard beat Duran, Hearns, Hagler and Benitez and he defeated them when they were in their prime.

Charles beat Bivins, Maxim, Walcott, Louis, Moore, L. Marshall and Burley. Granted that's more than Leonard's, but Bivins, Walcott and Louis weren't in their prime. Charles also lost to Walcott twice afterward.
And Bivins and Marshell also beat Charles!
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:28 PM #7
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Originally Posted by CCobra View Post
Charles was denied a shot at both the Middleweight and Light-Heavyweight titles. Had he got the shot he deserved both times and won, he'd be a 3 weight world champion a time when there were no junior and super divisions. Ezzard Charles beat more HOFers, more elite fighters, more top contenders and fought all comers multiple times.

Leonard is an ATG, but I think Charles is just that much better than Leonard. H2H I'd take Charles too, he'd have busted him up in a MW, SMW or LHW title fight.

I agree with this completely. Good post.
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:19 PM #8
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Charles was the real deal. Ability wise, I think he was better than Ray Robinson. He did things that were technically far ahead of most of his contemporaries.
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Old 01-24-2010, 04:03 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCobra View Post
Charles was denied a shot at both the Middleweight and Light-Heavyweight titles. Had he got the shot he deserved both times and won, he'd be a 3 weight world champion a time when there were no junior and super divisions. Ezzard Charles beat more HOFers, more elite fighters, more top contenders and fought all comers multiple times.

Leonard is an ATG, but I think Charles is just that much better than Leonard. H2H I'd take Charles too, he'd have busted him up in a MW, SMW or LHW title fight.
i also agree with this post... Ezzard Charles was No1 contender for Tony Zale`s World Middleweight Title when the 2nd World War broke out...

What is very surprising to me is that when someone posts their ATG Top 10 Heavyweights Ezzard Charles is never in that list, yet if it is to be even suggested that Charles could beat fighters on that list you will "immediately be shot down in flames" with quotes like, "He was too little... He was only a light-heavy... He would be killed in the 1st round by a 6ft 6ins 250lb guy... He would never get past the jab... etc etc etc... these quotes could not be further from the truth... The same thing applies to Floyd Patterson who was a "Fantastic Boxer/Puncher" yet he barely makes most peoples Top ATG 30 list.... Ezzard Charles, Floyd Patterson & Muhammad Ali are the top 3 boxers in heavyweight history..
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Old 01-24-2010, 04:28 AM #10
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Originally Posted by Method Checker View Post
Of those HOFers, who were the better fighters? Leonard beat Duran, Hearns, Hagler and Benitez and he defeated them when they were in their prime.

Charles beat Bivins, Maxim, Walcott, Louis, Moore, L. Marshall and Burley. Granted that's more than Leonard's, but Bivins, Walcott and Louis weren't in their prime. Charles also lost to Walcott twice afterward.
Hagler & Duran were both post-prime. Hearns was overtrained (not Leonard's fault.. but was trailing when he stopped hearns.) and denied a rematch for a long time. Benitez is a good fighter, but I'd take Burley, Bivins, Moore, Marshall & Maxim over him as being better wins.

The depth that Charles' resume has is just incredible. He fought every top contender, every champion and every elite fighter that would fight him from middleweight to heavyweight - no exceptions. The guy was way past his best and still taking on all comers like Harold Johnson and Rocky Marciano. In fact, he came close to beating prime Rocky twice.

Leonard's resume isn't as impressive as it's made out to be.. he beat 4 great fighters (two post-prime) and the rest is filled with average contenders and "retirements".

Quote:
Originally Posted by cotto16 View Post
And Bivins and Marshell also beat Charles
So what? Hearns (unofficial) and Duran also beat Sugar Ray Leonard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Counter right View Post
Charles was the real deal. Ability wise, I think he was better than Ray Robinson. He did things that were technically far ahead of most of his contemporaries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
i also agree with this post... Ezzard Charles was No1 contender for Tony Zale`s World Middleweight Title when the 2nd World War broke out...

What is very surprising to me is that when someone posts their ATG Top 10 Heavyweights Ezzard Charles is never in that list, yet if it is to be even suggested that Charles could beat fighters on that list you will "immediately be shot down in flames" with quotes like, "He was too little... He was only a light-heavy... He would be killed in the 1st round by a 6ft 6ins 250lb guy... He would never get past the jab... etc etc etc... these quotes could not be further from the truth... The same thing applies to Floyd Patterson who was a "Fantastic Boxer/Puncher" yet he barely makes most peoples Top ATG 30 list.... Ezzard Charles, Floyd Patterson & Muhammad Ali are the top 3 boxers in heavyweight history..
Patterson is a top 25 HW, Charles is top 20 and Ali is top 2.

Last edited by CCobra; 01-24-2010 at 04:31 AM.
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