Boxing Forum
Navigation
Go Back   Boxing Forum > Boxing Forums > Boxing History

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-31-2009, 08:42 AM #1
Suckmedry Suckmedry is offline
back and better than ever
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Don't believe everything you read, Alize and weed
Posts: 6,098
Quoted: 208 Post(s)
Rep Power: 27
Suckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 10,001,749,099.11
Bank: 7,253,846.69
Total Points: 10,009,002,945.80
one of the worst posters in the history of boxingscene - Freedom2014 Easily the worst member of NSB - Red Cyclone to make yourself look pretty for LacedUp - Weltschmerz sit on this, fanboy. then do your homework little piss ant - Weltschmerz suck it slut - Weltschmerz 
suck biatch - Rammstein pop some bottles m8 - sugarsmosley Calm down babe - dan_cov you are very stupid - Freedom2014 Good poster - jas 
Kick this racist! - Box-Office one of the very worst in boxingscene history - Freedom. 
Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - Freedom2014 
Default What does being a contender really mean anymore?

BITD, before we had all the Alphabet bodies etc etc we all know the story..... being a "contender" for the World Title really meant something. Contenders had followings, they were notable even if they never won the title. Being a contender was an achievement. Even if you never ever became champ, you were still a contender, one of the best in the world in your weight at the time.


Nowadays with so many rankings, there's so many damn contenders, to be a contender no longer means you are automatically a quality fighter. Hardly any fighters become notable while they are still contenders, and just seems like the whole idea of a contender is really de-valued these days, if you feel me.
Suckmedry is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisements
>>>TO REMOVE THESE ADS, PLEASE REGISTER HERE FOR FREE<<<
Old 12-31-2009, 10:32 AM #2
Bigdaddy_Vh Bigdaddy_Vh is offline
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
Age: 36
Posts: 650
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Rep Power: 14
Bigdaddy_Vh has a reputation beyond reputeBigdaddy_Vh has a reputation beyond reputeBigdaddy_Vh has a reputation beyond reputeBigdaddy_Vh has a reputation beyond reputeBigdaddy_Vh has a reputation beyond reputeBigdaddy_Vh has a reputation beyond reputeBigdaddy_Vh has a reputation beyond reputeBigdaddy_Vh has a reputation beyond reputeBigdaddy_Vh has a reputation beyond reputeBigdaddy_Vh has a reputation beyond reputeBigdaddy_Vh has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 44,727.01
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 44,727.01
Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - Bigdaddy_Vh 
Send a message via AIM to Bigdaddy_Vh
Default

i definately feel ya on this one but ya know, its a funny thing. even with all the sanctioning bodies and all the bull**** rankings they have, i still tend to know who the REAL contenders are. Boxing is kind of funny that way and im glad you posted this topic b/c i was just thinking about this myself last night. i think the whole idea of a "contender" has been de-valued to the mainstream or the casual boxing fan but true boxing fans like us know the difference.
Bigdaddy_Vh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2009, 12:23 PM #3
BennyST BennyST is offline
Shhhh...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,080
Quoted: 388 Post(s)
Rep Power: 69
BennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 50,030,233,185,055.42
Bank: 2,667,772,765,451,196.50
Total Points: 2,717,802,998,636,252.00
drink up buddy - mgkirkpatrick You're a great poster - Clegg cheers....great poster. - MELLY-MEL... To a cool guy - Stoppage for being a heavyweight in history section - led 
top poster - IronMike* Best Post award,,, and Geen K - McGoorty one of boxingscene's sh1ttiest posters - Freedom. Easily one of boxingscene's best!! - JAB5239 7,000 posts! - Scott9945 
Happy holidays bro! - led* you deserve a kick for your hatred of the Klitschkos - Freedom. Superb post. - dan_cov For schooling these cats about Maidana's defense. - punchr Something to wash that donut down. - punchr 
Gay and Lesbian Pride - Freedom Fighter 
Default

Well, you're right. Being a contender is not much to brag about these days. Unless you're in an amazing divisions full of freakish talent, it's hard not to win a title.

The classic contender was someone who made it very close to the top, but just couldn't become champion.

Thirty years ago, there was the WBC/WBA champion and one of them was usually recognised as the guy. Before that it was just the one guy only. After that there were the contenders. Today, those same contenders are all champions.

With the IBO about to be recognised as another big title because of stupid popular fighters like Pac, Hatton, Jones fighting for one but losing etc, it will soon be just another in the mix. Being a contender was something to be seriously amazed at a while ago. You had won your way to the top and only had one or two guys to go before being the champion. Now, you're a contender with five champions, another Ring champ, another lineal champ (because it seems as though you don't need to win a title to become a lineal champ anymore) and all sorts of stuff.

It's just different. It will never change and so as long as people recognise that being a five time champion today is nothing compared to being a five time champion thirty years ago, it's all good.

Guys like Jose Medel would have been multiple time champs today, absolutely. The problem was, back then, he had to fight one guy to become the champ and that guy was the very best of the best. He didn't have to fight a Malignaggi to get a belt or a David Diaz, he had to fight Eder Jofre and that was the only guy to fight. Until someone was good enough to beat him and you were good enough to get another shot at them, it was that one shot and that's it.

Put it this way: today if fighting as a ranked 'contender', you have at the minimum one or two people above you for the title, depending on WBA/WBC/ETC/ETC.

To become champ, you can beat that one or two guys. That only leaves four other champions, their 'interim', 'super', 'regular' or whatever as well as four other 'contenders'.

When it was the one guy, you had the one guy you needed to beat, which meant you had already gone through the best to get him. That would be similar to beating as many as three other contenders and three other champions. Soon, 'Undisputed' will mean nothing or maybe it will be the only one that ever really means anything. It sure is the only one that truly means anything at the moment.

Last edited by BennyST; 12-31-2009 at 12:25 PM.
BennyST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2009, 12:29 PM #4
El Jesus El Jesus is offline
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Age: 34
Posts: 9,506
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Rep Power: 41
El Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 1,564,584.44
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 1,564,584.44
Just for being a cool guy. That's all. - BennyST 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyST View Post

Guys like Jose Medel would have been multiple time champs today, absolutely. The problem was, back then, he had to fight one guy to become the champ and that guy was the very best of the best. He didn't have to fight a Malignaggi to get a belt or a David Diaz, he had to fight Eder Jofre and that was the only guy to fight.
Ironic you should mention Jofre...
El Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2009, 04:07 PM #5
TBear TBear is offline
Lords of Boxingscene
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In the shadows of your dreams
Age: 93
Posts: 82,659
Quoted: 1137 Post(s)
Rep Power: 578
TBear has a reputation beyond reputeTBear has a reputation beyond reputeTBear has a reputation beyond reputeTBear has a reputation beyond reputeTBear has a reputation beyond reputeTBear has a reputation beyond reputeTBear has a reputation beyond reputeTBear has a reputation beyond reputeTBear has a reputation beyond reputeTBear has a reputation beyond reputeTBear has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 3,124.28
Bank: 46,844,351,514,748,674,637,824.00
Total Points: 46,844,351,514,748,674,637,824.00
Merry Christmas my man - El-blanco Merry Christmas to you and yours - sweetpea87 Happy New Year.. - !! AI-Holmes!! Happy new years to you too my friend :beerchug: - -jose- Congratz on your promotion! - jazluvr 
it's all in a name :fing02: :lol1: - -jose- birf dae - Tago Nang Tago Thanks for the info - Enayze No Message - MDPopescu what up T! just driving by buddy :drive: :wave: - -jose- 
In lui of green - jazluvr I just read the green k message and of course I don't mind you my ninja! - -jose- Feliz Navidad amigo! - -jose- Merry Christmas - siablo14 Merry Christmas, TBear! Love yah (No homo) - Kuyukut 
Merry Christmas, bud. - Sweet Pea 50 Belated Merry Christmas mate, hope you had a good one. - Brady_Blows12 Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you too T sorry it's late but I was away - -jose- Who came first, the Easter Bunny or the Easter egg? - !! AI-Holmes!! congrats! - -jose- 
Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - S A M U R A I Cancer - Epilepsy - Foster Care - Gynecological Cancer - Rett Syndrome - S A M U R A I Graves Disease - Lymphedema - Men's Health - Pro Choice - Prostate Cancer - Scleroderma - Thyroid Disease - Trisomy 18 - S A M U R A I Cultural Diversity - Hunger - Leukemia - Lupus - Melanoma - Racial Tolerance - Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome - Self Injury - MANGLER Adoptee - Bone Cancer - Child Exploitation and Abuse - Hope and Support - Peace - Retinoblastoma - Right to Life - Student Sexual Assault - MANGLER 
Hodgkin's Disease - Testicular Cancer - MANGLER World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - !! AI-Holmes!! Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - cooper5 Emphysema - Lung Cancer - Lung Disease - Multiple Sclerosis - Izrock AIDS/HIV - DARE - DUI Awareness - Epidermolysis Bullosa - Heart Disease - Lymphoma - MADD - Substance Abuse - Raider Monkz 
Head and Neck Cancer - Izrock Childhood Cancer - ??? Alzheimer's - Crohn's & Colitis - Cystic Fibrosis - Domestic Violence - Fibromyalgia - Leimyosarcoma - Lupus - ??? Breast Cancer - Birth Parents - Hard Dick Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Unknown Champ 
Children with Disabilities - Parkinson's Disease - VACTERL - Young Onset Parkinson's Association - BABYBOXER Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - codey Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - codey Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Daniel Alpha Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - Trudoe 
Default

There was a time when a fighter had to beat ranked fighters to move up in the rankings. Not any more, beat 20 bums and pay some money and you can be in the top ten. Most of it has to do with the crooked sanctioning bodies.
Makes me sad, the state of it all right now!
TBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2009, 06:52 PM #6
Suckmedry Suckmedry is offline
back and better than ever
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Don't believe everything you read, Alize and weed
Posts: 6,098
Quoted: 208 Post(s)
Rep Power: 27
Suckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond reputeSuckmedry has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 10,001,749,099.11
Bank: 7,253,846.69
Total Points: 10,009,002,945.80
one of the worst posters in the history of boxingscene - Freedom2014 Easily the worst member of NSB - Red Cyclone to make yourself look pretty for LacedUp - Weltschmerz sit on this, fanboy. then do your homework little piss ant - Weltschmerz suck it slut - Weltschmerz 
suck biatch - Rammstein pop some bottles m8 - sugarsmosley Calm down babe - dan_cov you are very stupid - Freedom2014 Good poster - jas 
Kick this racist! - Box-Office one of the very worst in boxingscene history - Freedom. 
Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - Freedom2014 
Default

If you took say, the WW division today, and put it back 60 years ago

Shane is the champ, Cotto, Margarito, Clottey, Floyd, Manny etc are all top contenders, fighting for a shot at the title.

How good would that be?
Suckmedry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2010, 02:01 AM #7
BennyST BennyST is offline
Shhhh...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,080
Quoted: 388 Post(s)
Rep Power: 69
BennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 50,030,233,185,055.42
Bank: 2,667,772,765,451,196.50
Total Points: 2,717,802,998,636,252.00
drink up buddy - mgkirkpatrick You're a great poster - Clegg cheers....great poster. - MELLY-MEL... To a cool guy - Stoppage for being a heavyweight in history section - led 
top poster - IronMike* Best Post award,,, and Geen K - McGoorty one of boxingscene's sh1ttiest posters - Freedom. Easily one of boxingscene's best!! - JAB5239 7,000 posts! - Scott9945 
Happy holidays bro! - led* you deserve a kick for your hatred of the Klitschkos - Freedom. Superb post. - dan_cov For schooling these cats about Maidana's defense. - punchr Something to wash that donut down. - punchr 
Gay and Lesbian Pride - Freedom Fighter 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CounterPuncha View Post
If you took say, the WW division today, and put it back 60 years ago

Shane is the champ, Cotto, Margarito, Clottey, Floyd, Manny etc are all top contenders, fighting for a shot at the title.

How good would that be?
Exactly. All of these guys have been champs without necessarily beating the top guy in the division. The real champ. They have all become champs through vacant titles, beating one of the ABC champs etc.

Pac's recent title winning effort would have just bumped him up to be the guy to fight for the title instead of actually winning one. He would have become the top contender but still would have had to fight Mosley to become a titlist.

Last edited by BennyST; 01-01-2010 at 02:08 AM.
BennyST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2010, 02:06 AM #8
BennyST BennyST is offline
Shhhh...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,080
Quoted: 388 Post(s)
Rep Power: 69
BennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond reputeBennyST has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 50,030,233,185,055.42
Bank: 2,667,772,765,451,196.50
Total Points: 2,717,802,998,636,252.00
drink up buddy - mgkirkpatrick You're a great poster - Clegg cheers....great poster. - MELLY-MEL... To a cool guy - Stoppage for being a heavyweight in history section - led 
top poster - IronMike* Best Post award,,, and Geen K - McGoorty one of boxingscene's sh1ttiest posters - Freedom. Easily one of boxingscene's best!! - JAB5239 7,000 posts! - Scott9945 
Happy holidays bro! - led* you deserve a kick for your hatred of the Klitschkos - Freedom. Superb post. - dan_cov For schooling these cats about Maidana's defense. - punchr Something to wash that donut down. - punchr 
Gay and Lesbian Pride - Freedom Fighter 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Jesus View Post
Ironic you should mention Jofre...
How so? What am I missing?
Image View Removed. For more information, please contact our forum admins by clicking here.
BennyST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2010, 04:39 AM #9
El Jesus El Jesus is offline
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Age: 34
Posts: 9,506
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Rep Power: 41
El Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeEl Jesus has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 1,564,584.44
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 1,564,584.44
Just for being a cool guy. That's all. - BennyST 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyST View Post
How so? What am I missing?
Image View Removed. For more information, please contact our forum admins by clicking here.
look to youre left.
El Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2010, 05:55 PM #10
GJC GJC is offline
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,957
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Rep Power: 22
GJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 1,049,435.31
Bank: 1,020,399.65
Total Points: 2,069,834.96
To a fellow boxing historian - Stoppage good poster - Counter right Excellent Poster. - Barnburner A cold pint for a knowlegeable old bastard - The Surgeon Super-Poster-- from McG - McGoorty 
You look like you need a proper DRINK - McGoorty This stuff should help the faculties - McGoorty Rest in peace old friend! - JAB5239 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyST View Post
When it was the one guy, you had the one guy you needed to beat, which meant you had already gone through the best to get him. That would be similar to beating as many as three other contenders and three other champions. Soon, 'Undisputed' will mean nothing or maybe it will be the only one that ever really means anything. It sure is the only one that truly means anything at the moment.
Great post Benny, highlighted this part because it kind of answers a criticism about some old champions in that they didn't defend their title as much as they should.
Winning the title was so difficult in the old days that once they had the title they made it work for them doing exibitions etc. The top ranked contender/s acted as a policeman for the champion.
In a lot of cases by the time a fighter won the title he was post prime, Jack Johnson being a classic example.
GJC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share This With Friends

Tags
anymore?, contender

User Tag List

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump


 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:05 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.