Boxing Forum
Navigation
Go Back   Boxing Forum > Boxing Forums > Boxing History

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-17-2009, 03:12 PM #1
boxingbuff boxingbuff is offline
Contender
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 432
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 8
boxingbuff is on a distinguished road
Points: 134,449.60
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 134,449.60
Default If Liston didn't quit after the 6th round against Ali?

What would have happened if Sonny Liston didn't quit after the 6th round against Ali in there 1st fight?

Would this fight have gone the distance? Most people do not realize that Liston was ahead on the score cards after 6 rounds.

Would Ali have stopped Sonny? Liston could take one keck of a punch.

Almost surely Liston's eyes would have been swelled shut by the end of the fight.

Liston was already tired after 6 rounds,and would have been dog tired in the late rounds.But remember,Clay had never went over 10 rounds himself.

Any thoughts or comments on how this fight would have played out?
boxingbuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisements
>>>TO REMOVE THESE ADS, PLEASE REGISTER HERE FOR FREE<<<
Old 09-17-2009, 03:37 PM #2
TheGreatA TheGreatA is offline
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Finland
Posts: 14,334
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Rep Power: 45
TheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 1,000,323,961.98
Bank: 7,568,015,645,127.00
Total Points: 7,569,015,969,088.98
To a great poster!! - abosworth great poster. - Melly-Mel For finding the Guzman stream, when nobody else could. - The_Bringer Just wanted to keep the pattern going Machine - danc1984 One of NSBs best contributors - BostonGuy 
7000 posts, congrats!! - JAB5239 To the LinkMaster! - S a m u r a i Respects to a great poster - Gift Of Gab Props on the picture! :lol1: - Spacey1991 Jussi Jääskeläinen - ЯiZО 
For Busting Rafael Benitez aka Slimey Limey - poet682006 To Celebrate The Exposure Of Rafael Benitez aka Slimey Limey - poet682006 thanks for the lesson! - mellow_mood This gift is for the videos you posted on my Tyson/Patterson thread a while back.  I recently noticed you posted some great interview videos of Patterson on the thread which I missed at the time because I didn’t follow up on checking the responses. - Benny Leonard For doing a great Glen Johnson highlight video! - St Lion 
To a great historian - Stoppage Good debate. No hard feelings. - Method Checker HERES TO YOU LEFTY - markbnlv Thanks for sharing your boxing knowledge. - Talisayen No Message - dancovboxer 
Hepatitis C - BattlingNelson World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - MARKBNLV 
Default

I personally believe that Liston was in fact having trouble with his shoulder. He would have been a punching bag for Ali but with enough determination Liston could have gone the distance. He didn't have that determination though.

I imagine he couldn't have won a single round from that point on so he would have lost a 11-4, 12-3 type of a decision if he did have it in him to go the distance, like Ernie Terrell for example.
TheGreatA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2009, 03:44 PM #3
boxingbuff boxingbuff is offline
Contender
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 432
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 8
boxingbuff is on a distinguished road
Points: 134,449.60
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 134,449.60
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
I personally believe that Liston was in fact having trouble with his shoulder. He would have been a punching bag for Ali but with enough determination Liston could have gone the distance. He didn't have that determination though.

I imagine he couldn't have won a single round from that point on so he would have lost a 11-4, 12-3 type of a decision if he did have it in him to go the distance, like Ernie Terrell for example.
What if he wasn't having trouble with his shoulder?
boxingbuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2009, 03:55 PM #4
TheGreatA TheGreatA is offline
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Finland
Posts: 14,334
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Rep Power: 45
TheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond reputeTheGreatA has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 1,000,323,961.98
Bank: 7,568,015,645,127.00
Total Points: 7,569,015,969,088.98
To a great poster!! - abosworth great poster. - Melly-Mel For finding the Guzman stream, when nobody else could. - The_Bringer Just wanted to keep the pattern going Machine - danc1984 One of NSBs best contributors - BostonGuy 
7000 posts, congrats!! - JAB5239 To the LinkMaster! - S a m u r a i Respects to a great poster - Gift Of Gab Props on the picture! :lol1: - Spacey1991 Jussi Jääskeläinen - ЯiZО 
For Busting Rafael Benitez aka Slimey Limey - poet682006 To Celebrate The Exposure Of Rafael Benitez aka Slimey Limey - poet682006 thanks for the lesson! - mellow_mood This gift is for the videos you posted on my Tyson/Patterson thread a while back.  I recently noticed you posted some great interview videos of Patterson on the thread which I missed at the time because I didn’t follow up on checking the responses. - Benny Leonard For doing a great Glen Johnson highlight video! - St Lion 
To a great historian - Stoppage Good debate. No hard feelings. - Method Checker HERES TO YOU LEFTY - markbnlv Thanks for sharing your boxing knowledge. - Talisayen No Message - dancovboxer 
Hepatitis C - BattlingNelson World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - MARKBNLV 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxingbuff View Post
What if he wasn't having trouble with his shoulder?
I think Liston would have still eventually retired in his corner. As you said, he was tiring, swelling and cutting up badly and by the 10th wouldn't have had anything left except for determination which he didn't have at that point.

If Liston decided he wanted to go out on his shield, he may have lasted the distance, losing a wide points decision, or would've been stopped on cuts.

A couple of years younger Liston (say the Liston of 1959-1960) with sufficient preparation may have made it a tougher night for Ali in my opinion.

Eddie Machen was no Ali but Liston was able to go 12 hard rounds against him and actually came on late in the fight, showing no signs of tiredness. Against Cleveland Williams his nose was broken early and against Marty Marshall his jaw was broken but he didn't quit in either of those fights.
TheGreatA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2009, 04:20 PM #5
right_hand_lead right_hand_lead is offline
Contender
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 274
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 9
right_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 29,023.39
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 29,023.39
Default

Liston would have been exhausted and frustrated from chasing Ali around the whole night. I don't see too much of a different outcome.
right_hand_lead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2009, 04:21 PM #6
right_hand_lead right_hand_lead is offline
Contender
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 274
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 9
right_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond reputeright_hand_lead has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 29,023.39
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 29,023.39
Default

Liston would have been exhausted and frustrated from chasing Ali around the whole night. I don't see too much of a different outcome.
right_hand_lead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2009, 08:01 PM #7
GJC GJC is offline
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,957
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Rep Power: 22
GJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 1,049,465.31
Bank: 1,020,399.65
Total Points: 2,069,864.96
To a fellow boxing historian - Stoppage good poster - Counter right Excellent Poster. - Barnburner A cold pint for a knowlegeable old bastard - The Surgeon Super-Poster-- from McG - McGoorty 
You look like you need a proper DRINK - McGoorty This stuff should help the faculties - McGoorty Rest in peace old friend! - JAB5239 
Default

Can't stand in the way of history Liston was aging by the minute and Ali was becoming great I think the latter rounds would have been horrible I think Ali would have tortured Liston
GJC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 04:36 AM #8
Emon723 Emon723 is offline
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,397
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Rep Power: 13
Emon723 has a reputation beyond reputeEmon723 has a reputation beyond reputeEmon723 has a reputation beyond reputeEmon723 has a reputation beyond reputeEmon723 has a reputation beyond reputeEmon723 has a reputation beyond reputeEmon723 has a reputation beyond reputeEmon723 has a reputation beyond reputeEmon723 has a reputation beyond reputeEmon723 has a reputation beyond reputeEmon723 has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 5,215,448.04
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 5,215,448.04
Default

Liston quit in the 6th round to ruined Ali's prediction of a 7th round TKO.
Emon723 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 05:49 AM #9
BigMacFoster BigMacFoster is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 239
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 0
BigMacFoster has a reputation beyond reputeBigMacFoster has a reputation beyond reputeBigMacFoster has a reputation beyond reputeBigMacFoster has a reputation beyond reputeBigMacFoster has a reputation beyond reputeBigMacFoster has a reputation beyond reputeBigMacFoster has a reputation beyond reputeBigMacFoster has a reputation beyond reputeBigMacFoster has a reputation beyond reputeBigMacFoster has a reputation beyond reputeBigMacFoster has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 11,989.38
Bank: 9,978.48
Total Points: 21,967.86
Default

I honestly believe Sonny Liston retired on his corner out of embarrassment,The first Clay-Liston fight was competitive but it was a fight that was clearly in the hands of Clay by the time it had been stopped.

Sonny had made light of Clays punching power(or lack of) and yet Clay was able to hurt him.Sonny Liston was a man not proud of,but certainly reliant on the aura of which he carried,He wanted to be a champion that the whole world would be proud of but to no avail,He eventually resigned himself to just being the scary big black guy who everybody was afraid of And he knew what people would think of the big bad bear chasing this dancing powder puff puncher around the ring to no avail and what it would do to his reputation.

He says he injured his shoulder and could no longer continue,But Liston at his peak would have continued if he knew he had a shot at winning,He had battled on through serious injuries in the past,Far worse than shoulder injuries.


It was a sad end to a misunderstood and unappreciated champion.Sonny Liston at his peak was a bad man with alot more than just a jab and a great power,He wasn't a brawler that demolished a great in Floyd Patterson twice in less than five minutes,He was a well rounded fighter who was tough as nails and had the most intimidating stare in human history.

God Bless the big bear....Charles "Sonny" Liston.
BigMacFoster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 06:17 AM #10
The Jackal The Jackal is offline
Jackal
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 532
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 0
The Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jackal has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 6,021.89
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 6,021.89
No problem, thank you too. - Silencers Thanks. Merry Christmas. - Silencers Have a clover lad. - ABOSWORTH Thanks. - Silencers Thanks. - Silencers 
Happy late Birthday mate!  Hope youhave many more! - ABOSWORTH 
Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - JM1 Children with Disabilities - Parkinson's Disease - VACTERL - Young Onset Parkinson's Association - Silencers Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - ABOSWORTH 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacFoster View Post
I honestly believe Sonny Liston retired on his corner out of embarrassment,The first Clay-Liston fight was competitive but it was a fight that was clearly in the hands of Clay by the time it had been stopped.

Sonny had made light of Clays punching power(or lack of) and yet Clay was able to hurt him.Sonny Liston was a man not proud of,but certainly reliant on the aura of which he carried,He wanted to be a champion that the whole world would be proud of but to no avail,He eventually resigned himself to just being the scary big black guy who everybody was afraid of And he knew what people would think of the big bad bear chasing this dancing powder puff puncher around the ring to no avail and what it would do to his reputation.

He says he injured his shoulder and could no longer continue,But Liston at his peak would have continued if he knew he had a shot at winning,He had battled on through serious injuries in the past,Far worse than shoulder injuries.


It was a sad end to a misunderstood and unappreciated champion.Sonny Liston at his peak was a bad man with alot more than just a jab and a great power,He wasn't a brawler that demolished a great in Floyd Patterson twice in less than five minutes,He was a well rounded fighter who was tough as nails and had the most intimidating stare in human history.

God Bless the big bear....Charles "Sonny" Liston.
Agree the only world champ not to a home coming parade in his hometown.

But Clay carried a beautifull art into the ring as in previous bouts over the years, Corbett/Sullivan & Tunney,Dempsey to name a few, he simply done what boxing is an art of in not getting hit & then exploited Sonny with shots straight down the middle.
I agree totally the embarrassment was too much, he continued with a broken jaw in 1 fight so shoulder an excuse, if he continued his face would be destroyed if it wasn't already bad enough he be stopped or KO'D, only need to look at the rematch when he was caught when he got off the floor he was still on shaky legs like a baby giraffe & Ali was going to take him out & we had the Ring & Walcott stop the fight.

Shame people don't respect a man that deserved his parade at least, all he was a man of his times.
The Jackal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share This With Friends

Tags
ali?, didn't, liston, quit, round

User Tag List

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump


 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:12 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.