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View Poll Results: Was Rubin Carter guilty
without a shadow of a doubt 10 22.22%
no way he was framed by racist cops 11 24.44%
not sure ,maybe 18 40.00%
Carter was not guilty 6 13.33%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-28-2008, 05:17 AM #1
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Default Am i the only one who thinks Rubin Carter is a Murderer

Am i the only one who thinks Rubin Carter is a Murderer?

Myth #1
Hurricane Carter was "wrongfully convicted of a crime he didn't commit," and he's been "exonerated."
Hurricane Carter and his co-accused, John Artis, have never been found "not guilty" of the Lafayette Grill Murders. They were twice convicted, and twice the convictions were set aside on the grounds that they didn't get a fair trial. The State of New Jersey decided not to re-try them a third time because so much time had passed, and withdrew the indictments against them.

Myth #2
Carter was framed because he "was well-known for his incendiary voice in the civil rights movement."

It's amazing how many journalists have repeated Carter's claim that he was "well known for his views on black self-defence," or "known to the Paterson police for his civil rights activities," or that "he held a reputation as a black militant in racially tense Paterson," when there is zero evidence that Hurricane Carter was an activist, or that he even lifted a finger for the civil rights movement. This bogus claim is central to Carter's accusation that he was framed by the police, but it's gone unchecked and unchallenged for thirty years.

Myth # 3
Carter was framed by racist, corrupt police and prosecutors. "His temperament, his background, and the color of his skin made him the perfect scapegoat."
This claim is frequently made, but is not proven. Carter and his defenders present a one-sided view of events and haven't told you about the evidence against Carter and Artis. This website, on the other hand, demonstrates that the evidence Carter provides to "prove" he was harassed and framed, is bogus. He changes dates and makes false and misleading statements but his paranoid version of events has been taken at face value. The movie The Hurricane shows Carter being railroaded by one racist cop -- this is pure Hollywood hokum. The Canadians did not "uncover... evidence that he had been framed by corrupt officials," and neither did anyone else.

Myth: #4
"The case against Carter was thick with racism and thin on evidence." Carter and Artis were railroaded by an all-white jury.

During the jury selection phase of the first trial, the prosecution and the defence examined a staggering 377 jurors. The defence used up all of their challenges (exercising the right to refuse someone for jury duty.). The prosecution only used eight of their challenges. The first jury included one black man, although his name was not drawn for the final deliberations. "All-white" doesn't necessarily mean "all-racist." The second jury, drawn from a jury pool of 250, included two blacks. The defense gave all the potential jurors a list of over 40 questions to test them on their racial attitudes. Anyone who expressed prejudice during the jury selection process was instantly excluded from the jury by the judge. Even so, Carter and Artis were still re-convicted.

Myth #5
Carter and Artis passed lie detector tests.
In his book, The Sixteenth Round, Carter quotes Sgt. McGuire (the officer who gave the tests), as saying, "Both of them are clean. They had nothing to do with the crime." In the book Hurricane, by James Hirsch, McGuire is quoted as saying, "he didn't participate in these crimes, but he may know who was involved." The actual report states, "This subject was attempting deception to all the pertinent questions. And was involved in this crime."

Myth #6
Like the Bob Dylan song explains, Carter and Artis were convicted on the word of Bello and Bradley, who were thieves and liars. And the surviving shooting victim, the one with "one dyin' eye," said "(Carter) ain't the guy."

Al Bello, the eyewitness who says he saw Carter and Artis fleeing the scene of the crime, was indeed a lookout man for a burglary. But his eyewitness testimony helped police track down Carter's car minutes after the crime. There was other evidence linking Carter to the crime. Even Carter and Artis's lawyers admitted there was a "mountain of incriminating evidence" against them. At trial, Willie Marins, the surviving shooting victim said he did not know if Carter and Artis were the killers.

Myth #7
Carter and Artis had "rock solid" alibis for the time of the murders.
Actually, they've got several -- take your pick. When Carter and Artis were first questioned, they gave conflicting versions of their activities that night. When Carter wrote his autobiography, the Sixteenth Round, he gave another version. James S. Hirsch reports a different alibi for Carter in the book Hurricane. At the second trial, four of Carter's alibi witnesses from the first trial testified that Carter asked them to lie.

Myth #8
Carter was stopped by the police only because he was DWB -- Driving While Black.

Carter claims that when Sgt. Capter stopped him, Capter said, "Awww, ****. Hurricane, I didn't know it was you" (as shown in the movie). This is false. Sgt. Capter and his partner were looking specifically for Carter and his car because it matched the description of the getaway car given by two eyewitnesses. But Bob Dylan and Hollywood fell for Carter's version.

Myth #9
John Artis was about to go to college on an athletic scholarship
when he was arrested for the murders.
As the 1987 prosecutor's brief states: "John Artis had been out of high school for two years at the time of the murders in June 1966. He was not arrested until October 1966 and he had not begun college at that point. There was no evidence that he ever had submitted any papers towards college enrollment. There was no evidence to show that, at the time of the murders, John Artis had a college scholarship..." In fact, John Artis had been drafted into the Army.

Myth #10
Hurricane Carter was "at the peak" of his career, "slated to contend" or "about to challenge" for the world middleweight boxing title when he was arrested.

Carter might have been hoping to re-challenge for the championship, but his career was on a downhill slide. Then-world champion, Dick Tiger, beat him like a gong the year before the murders. After that, Carter had nine more boxing matches and he lost five of them.
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:23 AM #2
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I did some research into this a few weeks ago and it led me to a site that displayed all the evidence of the case, it convinced me that Carter was the killer.
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:24 AM #3
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Originally Posted by silencers98 View Post
I did some research into this a few weeks ago and it led me to a site that displayed all the evidence of the case, it convinced me that Carter was the killer.
LOL what a coincidence it must be the same site im viewing now

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Old 01-28-2008, 05:26 AM #4
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Have tried but couldnt come to a genuine conclusion, I wanted to be 100% sure but couldnt..so I vote for Maybe..not sure.
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:30 AM #5
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i have done no such research and have only seen the film. just shows you how hollywood can twist things really, if you were to watch the film you'd be left with the impression carter was innocent without question.
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:31 AM #6
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Originally Posted by raycorey View Post
Have tried but couldnt come to a genuine conclusion, I wanted to be 100% sure but couldnt..so I vote for Maybe..not sure.
put it this way Carter car was indentified as the gettaway car by eyewhitness & they found a shot gun & a hand gun in the car ,coincidently the bullets matched the ones that were used in the Shooting

& he had motive as it was a all white bar & apparently the bar tender was racist
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:32 AM #7
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Originally Posted by divad View Post
LOL what a coincidence it must be the same site im viewing now

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Same site lol.
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:34 AM #8
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Originally Posted by divad View Post
put it this way Carter car was indentified as the gettaway car by eyewhitness & they found a shot gun & a hand gun in the car ,coincidently the bullets matched the ones that were used in the Shooting

& he had motive as it was a all white bar & apparently the bar tender was racist
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Originally Posted by silencers98 View Post
Same site lol.
yeah its really interesting aint it
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:36 AM #9
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He is a murderer, isn't it cool. And he used the I am black and that you cops are racist argument. You know white ppl can't use that excuse because it doesn't work for whites.
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:39 AM #10
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Originally Posted by divad View Post
LOL what a coincidence it must be the same site im viewing now

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Thanks for the link, Its good to have the other side of the story.
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