Boxing Forum
Navigation
Go Back   Boxing Forum > Boxing Forums > Boxing History

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-31-2015, 07:32 AM #1
BattlingNelson BattlingNelson is offline
Battet
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: On the EU northern borderline.
Posts: 34,513
Quoted: 1270 Post(s)
Rep Power: 555
BattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 100,999,000,000,592,576.00
Bank: 3,768,767,511,848,456,704.00
Total Points: 3,869,766,511,849,049,088.00
good luck in the league, you'll need it :) - El Mustang for being a cool poster in history section - led BattlingNelson > LeCrétin - Freedom Fighter A man who has superior boxing knowledge & integrity. - Terry A ATG poster on BoxingScene - rorymac 
Happy Holidays.. - !! AI-Holmes!! Have one on me ! - BERNIE'S CORNER he was just lucky! - gingeralbino Merry Christmas Bat. I hope you and yours have a wonderful one. - deanrw Jeg giver en omgang - The Slaughter 
No Message - chiguy91 I like your unbiased RBRs! - dan_cov Cuz' I'm an old masochist <3 - Grand Champ Happy holidays buddy! - jazluvr "When I'm able to clap, I know she's ready for my dick." lmao - -jose- 
For being one of the true "boxing guys" in this place. - Cuauhtémoc1520 Merry Christmas BattlingNelson - TBear Happy holidays and best wishes for 2016 - -Weltschmerz- Happy holidays bud! - TBear Thx for the kind words.  Nice that some actually pay attention to what goes on around here. - Redd Foxx 
AIDS/HIV - DARE - DUI Awareness - Epidermolysis Bullosa - Heart Disease - Lymphoma - MADD - Substance Abuse - !! AI-Holmes!! Lou Gehrig's Disease (ALS) - mangler Alzheimer's - Crohn's & Colitis - Cystic Fibrosis - Domestic Violence - Fibromyalgia - Leimyosarcoma - Lupus - mangler Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - ABOSWORTH Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - mangler 
Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - S a m u r a i Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - mangler Gay and Lesbian Pride - Mr._Pink Myasthenia Gravis - Ovarian Cancer - Sexual Assault - Substance Abuse - mangler Cultural Diversity - Hunger - Leukemia - Lupus - Melanoma - Racial Tolerance - Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome - Self Injury - mangler 
Cesarean Sections - Headaches - Hospice Care - Multiple Myeloma - mangler Anti-Tobacco - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - mangler Cultural Diversity - Hunger - Leukemia - Lupus - Melanoma - Racial Tolerance - Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome - Self Injury - Carnivore Childhood Cancer - mangler Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - JM1 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - jazluvr449 Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - jazluvr449 Alzheimer's - Crohn's & Colitis - Cystic Fibrosis - Domestic Violence - Fibromyalgia - Leimyosarcoma - Lupus - peyk-peyk World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - peyk-peyk Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - nÔÔb_out_king 
Exclamation Why todays era is better than past eras. Discussion.

"Todays era is better than any past eras. In other Words HW is better today than in past decades!"

Before saying that I have gone mad, please read below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeandthebums View Post
1924 - 22~ deaths from 22859* bouts = 0.096%

1944 - 8~ deaths from 15660* bouts = 0.051%

1964 - 15~ deaths from 9675* bouts = 0.155%

1984 - 5~ deaths from 12581* bouts = 0.039%

2004 - 9~ deaths from 18406* bouts = 0.048%

~ current record of boxing fatalities
* current record of boxing bouts

That is across the board, Heavyweight's account for roughly 8% of the listed deaths and "only" around 70% are from professional contests.

Just going by the numbers it does seem to have had very little to no impact on ring fatalities but that of course does not take into consideration other physical injuries received.

As for knock-outs, I don't really have any data at present available.



Punchers throughout history have always sought the smallest gloves possible. They only put on the big gloves for sparring and exhibitions.

6 ounce gloves at the lowest weight classes were stopped as late as the early 1990's due to boxers complaining about the dangers of a glove that size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BattlingNelson View Post
As always some good insights from you.

May I ask where these statistics are from and maybe you can give your take on the validity. It seems odd that the number of bouts in 2004 is twice that of 1964 where one would think there would be more fighters and that they where fighting more often. If the validity is compromised the statistic as base of decisionmaking goes Down the drain as the number of deaths most likely is correct (but the number of bouts is not).
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeandthebums View Post
The fatalities statistics are from The Manuel Velazquez Collection and the contest statistics are from BoxRec.

I believe both to be the most accurate sources at present available, though I believe their still be to unaccounted for fatalities and contests that hopefully with time will become known.

Unfortunately BoxRec whilst publishing the amount of contests by year and decade they have in their database have yet to do likewise with active boxers.



That is a good point and I don't have a suitable explanation either for or against the statistics.

The only figures I have on file are those given by Nat Fleischer;

1944 - 4,382 boxers on file
1964 - At least 5,000 professional boxers

Unfortunately I do not have data on the other years but can add that at present BoxRec lists 18,424 boxers as active.

Again I can't ensure absolute accuracy of that figure with regards to how BoxRec list and deem a boxer to be active - but I presume that given current technology very few boxers worldwide are missed today in comparison to the potential for oversight using the system Fleischer was forced to use as record keeper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bundana View Post
BoxRec's last decade update (October 23, 2014) showed these number of pro fights:

1850 2
1860 15
1870 339
1880 4607
1890 16503
1900 41984
1910 94008
1920 269461
1930 287746
1940 202824
1950 156486
1960 105133
1970 104888
1980 130861
1990 141126
2000 185882
2010 107123

So on October 23 last year, a couple of months shy of the halfway mark of this decade, BoxRec had already registered more pro fights than in each of the 60s and 70s decades.

This is hardly surprising, as the world population har doubled since the 60s, and so many more countries now allow pro boxing (since the Iron Curtain came down). So the global talent pool is obviously much larger today than 50 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BattlingNelson View Post
Thanks Guys.

I knew a bit about the statistics, but it's nice to have them here. It's a topic that deserves a thread of it's own IMO.

What I think is one of the major implications of these numbers is that it turns the way we view boxing history upside Down. It's popular to say, and I do so myself very often, that boxers of yesteryear was better and past eras where better. Now we are present with a statistic pretty much showing that the talent pool is bigger today and the competition is much harder. Let that sink in for a while before discussing the state of HW boxing.

Mindboggling.

Maybe you Guys can comment on that observation?

Sensible discussion please. No fanboiism.
BattlingNelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisements
>>>TO REMOVE THESE ADS, PLEASE REGISTER HERE FOR FREE<<<
Old 03-31-2015, 07:36 AM #2
BattlingNelson BattlingNelson is offline
Battet
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: On the EU northern borderline.
Posts: 34,513
Quoted: 1270 Post(s)
Rep Power: 555
BattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 100,999,000,000,592,576.00
Bank: 3,768,767,511,848,456,704.00
Total Points: 3,869,766,511,849,049,088.00
good luck in the league, you'll need it :) - El Mustang for being a cool poster in history section - led BattlingNelson &amp;gt; LeCrétin - Freedom Fighter A man who has superior boxing knowledge &amp;amp; integrity. - Terry A ATG poster on BoxingScene - rorymac 
Happy Holidays.. - !! AI-Holmes!! Have one on me ! - BERNIE'S CORNER he was just lucky! - gingeralbino Merry Christmas Bat. I hope you and yours have a wonderful one. - deanrw Jeg giver en omgang - The Slaughter 
No Message - chiguy91 I like your unbiased RBRs! - dan_cov Cuz' I'm an old masochist &lt;3 - Grand Champ Happy holidays buddy! - jazluvr &quot;When I'm able to clap, I know she's ready for my dick.&quot; lmao - -jose- 
For being one of the true &quot;boxing guys&quot; in this place. - Cuauhtémoc1520 Merry Christmas BattlingNelson - TBear Happy holidays and best wishes for 2016 - -Weltschmerz- Happy holidays bud! - TBear Thx for the kind words.  Nice that some actually pay attention to what goes on around here. - Redd Foxx 
AIDS/HIV - DARE - DUI Awareness - Epidermolysis Bullosa - Heart Disease - Lymphoma - MADD - Substance Abuse - !! AI-Holmes!! Lou Gehrig's Disease (ALS) - mangler Alzheimer's - Crohn's & Colitis - Cystic Fibrosis - Domestic Violence - Fibromyalgia - Leimyosarcoma - Lupus - mangler Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - ABOSWORTH Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - mangler 
Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - S a m u r a i Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - mangler Gay and Lesbian Pride - Mr._Pink Myasthenia Gravis - Ovarian Cancer - Sexual Assault - Substance Abuse - mangler Cultural Diversity - Hunger - Leukemia - Lupus - Melanoma - Racial Tolerance - Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome - Self Injury - mangler 
Cesarean Sections - Headaches - Hospice Care - Multiple Myeloma - mangler Anti-Tobacco - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - mangler Cultural Diversity - Hunger - Leukemia - Lupus - Melanoma - Racial Tolerance - Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome - Self Injury - Carnivore Childhood Cancer - mangler Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - JM1 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - jazluvr449 Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - jazluvr449 Alzheimer's - Crohn's & Colitis - Cystic Fibrosis - Domestic Violence - Fibromyalgia - Leimyosarcoma - Lupus - peyk-peyk World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - peyk-peyk Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - nÔÔb_out_king 
Default

Sheer numbers clearly indicate that their where fewer fighters and fewer fights in the old days. Since competition always makes quality rise how can anyone dispute that boxers, in general, are better today than they where in past eras?
BattlingNelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2015, 07:37 AM #3
Bundana Bundana is offline
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 630
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Rep Power: 9
Bundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 500,109,906.90
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 500,109,906.90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BattlingNelson View Post
Thanks Guys.

I knew a bit about the statistics, but it's nice to have them here. It's a topic that deserves a thread of it's own IMO.

What I think is one of the major implications of these numbers is that it turns the way we view boxing history upside Down. It's popular to say, and I do so myself very often, that boxers of yesteryear was better and past eras where better. Now we are present with a statistic pretty much showing that the talent pool is bigger today and the competition is much harder. Let that sink in for a while before discussing the state of HW boxing.

Mindboggling.

Maybe you Guys can comment on that observation?
Yes, I think you're right... the actual numbers fly in the face of what we have all been told for years: That today's boxing sucks, because there are fewer boxers/less competition than ever. This is simply not true!

Edit: Sorry, I can see, that you have now started a seperate thread about this subject.
Edit by BatlingNelson: I've used my mod superpowers and moved the post.

Last edited by BattlingNelson; 03-31-2015 at 07:53 AM.
Bundana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2015, 08:16 AM #4
LacedUp LacedUp is offline
Still Smokin'
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 23,945
Quoted: 4465 Post(s)
Rep Power: 85
LacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 2,004,490,862,125,075.00
Bank: 10,090,112,996,048,455,680.00
Total Points: 10,092,117,486,910,580,736.00
A glass of the finest French wine - QuebecSTAR2 Thank u sir. - Trudoe Thanks for the help - mathed Thanks for the help - mathed For shitting all over Weltz's B1tch T1Ts - Col. Hans Landa 
This should come in handy when sheltering from the shower of shite that is Rammstein's posts. - Finn No Message - Scott-Weiland No Message - -jose- Happy New Year m8 - HughJass Aww god loves a tryer - Salim_Shady 
Little baby wanna cry ? - Scott-Weiland specially made by Wlad, he loves his haters too f@ggot - ThatLeftaMarc Fury openly pays for his fan's dildos - NapoleonCake No Message - mathed No Message - mathed 
Hopefully no vibrator needed and just a good fight no excuses. - Scott-Weiland Happy Christmas/Holidays, all the best for 2016. - Box-Office Flamboyant poster - Weltschmerz No Message - MDPopescu 
Gay and Lesbian Pride - -Weltschmerz- Gay and Lesbian Pride - Scott-Weiland Breast Cancer - Birth Parents - Scott.Weiland. Breast Cancer - Birth Parents - Scott.Weiland. Breast Cancer - Birth Parents - Scott.Weiland. 
Default

Interesting discussion. I was always of the thought that there were more pro boxers in the mid century than now. Could it perhaps be harder to collect info from that era for boxrec?

The old days are always better - that's how the old days are remembered. Today's boxing has little euphoria connected to it. So in 20 years time, we'll talk about the great days of Mayweather and Pacquiao - similarly to how Sugar Ray Leonard and Roberto Duran are being talked about today. Probably.

Now, I have one issue with this. How do we determine that the quantity of fighters improve the quality of fighters? Surely, there must be a better way to determine this? I don't think that we can determine that 'general competition' increases quality as today there would probably be more registered boxers who freelance as boxers, because the paycheck for a journeyman is higher today than it was before.

So if say, 95% of today's fighters are fighting at regional level and only 85% of yesteryear did - That should be a detraction from the overall quality?

What do you guys think?
LacedUp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2015, 08:16 AM #5
Bundana Bundana is offline
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 630
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Rep Power: 9
Bundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 500,109,906.90
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 500,109,906.90
Default

Thanks Bat... If only I had powers like that!

Anyway, here are some more numbers, that might be of interest in a discussion like this...

...I took The Ring's end-of-year rankings for 1925, to see how many fights the 10 top contenders (I did not include reigning champions) in each division (80 men in total, as there of course were only 8 divisions back then) had during that year. I found, that they had anywhere from 2 (Harry Wills) to 33 (Young Stribling) - with an average of 13.09! I made the same calcuations for 1930, and then for every 10 years after that (each time only for the 8 classic divisions) and came up with this:

1925 - 13.09
1930 - 10.74
1940 - 9.94
1950 - 8.60
1960 - 5.86
1970 - 5.33
1980 - 4.15
1990 - 3.29
2000 - 2.96
2010 - 2.26
2014 - 2.18

As said, these numbers are only for the 80 top men in the 8 original divisions! There's no way of telling, if they can be said to represent the ENTIRE pool of boxers at any given time. However, they certainly seem to indicate, what I'm sure we all know/believe... that the old-timers fought MUCH more often than today. Of this there can be little doubt!
Bundana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2015, 08:22 AM #6
LacedUp LacedUp is offline
Still Smokin'
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 23,945
Quoted: 4465 Post(s)
Rep Power: 85
LacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond reputeLacedUp has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 2,004,490,862,125,075.00
Bank: 10,090,112,996,048,455,680.00
Total Points: 10,092,117,486,910,580,736.00
A glass of the finest French wine - QuebecSTAR2 Thank u sir. - Trudoe Thanks for the help - mathed Thanks for the help - mathed For shitting all over Weltz's B1tch T1Ts - Col. Hans Landa 
This should come in handy when sheltering from the shower of shite that is Rammstein's posts. - Finn No Message - Scott-Weiland No Message - -jose- Happy New Year m8 - HughJass Aww god loves a tryer - Salim_Shady 
Little baby wanna cry ? - Scott-Weiland specially made by Wlad, he loves his haters too f@ggot - ThatLeftaMarc Fury openly pays for his fan's dildos - NapoleonCake No Message - mathed No Message - mathed 
Hopefully no vibrator needed and just a good fight no excuses. - Scott-Weiland Happy Christmas/Holidays, all the best for 2016. - Box-Office Flamboyant poster - Weltschmerz No Message - MDPopescu 
Gay and Lesbian Pride - -Weltschmerz- Gay and Lesbian Pride - Scott-Weiland Breast Cancer - Birth Parents - Scott.Weiland. Breast Cancer - Birth Parents - Scott.Weiland. Breast Cancer - Birth Parents - Scott.Weiland. 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bundana View Post
Thanks Bat... If only I had powers like that!

Anyway, here are some more numbers, that might be of interest in a discussion like this...

...I took The Ring's end-of-year rankings for 1925, to see how many fights the 10 top contenders (I did not include reigning champions) in each division (80 men in total, as there of course were only 8 divisions back then) had during that year. I found, that they had anywhere from 2 (Harry Wills) to 33 (Young Stribling) - with an average of 13.09! I made the same calcuations for 1930, and then for every 10 years after that (each time only for the 8 classic divisions) and came up with this:

1925 - 13.09
1930 - 10.74
1940 - 9.94
1950 - 8.60
1960 - 5.86
1970 - 5.33
1980 - 4.15
1990 - 3.29
2000 - 2.96
2010 - 2.26
2014 - 2.18

As said, these numbers are only for the 80 top men in the 8 original divisions! There's no way of telling, if they can be said to represent the ENTIRE pool of boxers at any given time. However, they certainly seem to indicate, what I'm sure we all know/believe... that the old-timers fought MUCH more often than today. Of this there can be little doubt!
Wouldn't it be smarter to calculate how many top 10 fighters fought top 10 fighters in their own or another division from decade to decade?

That would show us the quality.
LacedUp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2015, 08:26 AM #7
joeandthebums joeandthebums is online now
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 566
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Rep Power: 5
joeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 68,937.89
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 68,937.89
Default

I would start by stating that I believe the amount of professional boxers that are not accounted for from Fleischer's time to be far greater than the present.

If BoxRec have the capabilities to publish the figures for active boxers in any given year, then we will have a much greater base for comparison.

Fleischer would rate approximately 2,600+ boxers each year in his yearly ratings, that would equate to roughly over half of the boxers he claimed he was aware of - I haven't spent any great time looking at this area until now and I think a considerable amount of time would be needed before reaching any form of conclusion.

I have took a brief look at 1941, for which I have only a vague reference, courtesy of Fleischer that 4,000 boxers were active at that time period.

Looking at his yearly welterweight ratings, he grouped 174 boxers over 7 groups.

28 of those boxers were non-US nationalities, including the likes of Mistos Grispos who was listed as from Greece despite being based in New York.

That makes for a over-inflated total 15% of non-US nationality boxers being ranked.

The rest then becomes guess work;

On the premise that Fleischer ranked over half of the boxers he knew of, we would have to believe there were no more than 348 active welterweights worldwide in 1941.

146 US boxers had already been ranked so what remaining percentage would be US and non-US?

Only 7 English boxers were ranked among the 174, what would be the total number of active English/British boxers at welterweight in 1941?
joeandthebums is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2015, 08:30 AM #8
joeandthebums joeandthebums is online now
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 566
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Rep Power: 5
joeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond reputejoeandthebums has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 68,937.89
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 68,937.89
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LacedUp View Post
Wouldn't it be smarter to calculate how many top 10 fighters fought top 10 fighters in their own or another division from decade to decade?

That would show us the quality.
I did begin to do this task; month-by-month working off of the monthly The Ring Magazine rankings but it's a task I haven't been back to for some time.
joeandthebums is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2015, 08:30 AM #9
BattlingNelson BattlingNelson is offline
Battet
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: On the EU northern borderline.
Posts: 34,513
Quoted: 1270 Post(s)
Rep Power: 555
BattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond reputeBattlingNelson has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 100,999,000,000,592,576.00
Bank: 3,768,767,511,848,456,704.00
Total Points: 3,869,766,511,849,049,088.00
good luck in the league, you'll need it :) - El Mustang for being a cool poster in history section - led BattlingNelson &amp;gt; LeCrétin - Freedom Fighter A man who has superior boxing knowledge &amp;amp; integrity. - Terry A ATG poster on BoxingScene - rorymac 
Happy Holidays.. - !! AI-Holmes!! Have one on me ! - BERNIE'S CORNER he was just lucky! - gingeralbino Merry Christmas Bat. I hope you and yours have a wonderful one. - deanrw Jeg giver en omgang - The Slaughter 
No Message - chiguy91 I like your unbiased RBRs! - dan_cov Cuz' I'm an old masochist &lt;3 - Grand Champ Happy holidays buddy! - jazluvr &quot;When I'm able to clap, I know she's ready for my dick.&quot; lmao - -jose- 
For being one of the true &quot;boxing guys&quot; in this place. - Cuauhtémoc1520 Merry Christmas BattlingNelson - TBear Happy holidays and best wishes for 2016 - -Weltschmerz- Happy holidays bud! - TBear Thx for the kind words.  Nice that some actually pay attention to what goes on around here. - Redd Foxx 
AIDS/HIV - DARE - DUI Awareness - Epidermolysis Bullosa - Heart Disease - Lymphoma - MADD - Substance Abuse - !! AI-Holmes!! Lou Gehrig's Disease (ALS) - mangler Alzheimer's - Crohn's & Colitis - Cystic Fibrosis - Domestic Violence - Fibromyalgia - Leimyosarcoma - Lupus - mangler Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - ABOSWORTH Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - mangler 
Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - S a m u r a i Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - mangler Gay and Lesbian Pride - Mr._Pink Myasthenia Gravis - Ovarian Cancer - Sexual Assault - Substance Abuse - mangler Cultural Diversity - Hunger - Leukemia - Lupus - Melanoma - Racial Tolerance - Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome - Self Injury - mangler 
Cesarean Sections - Headaches - Hospice Care - Multiple Myeloma - mangler Anti-Tobacco - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - mangler Cultural Diversity - Hunger - Leukemia - Lupus - Melanoma - Racial Tolerance - Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome - Self Injury - Carnivore Childhood Cancer - mangler Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - JM1 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - jazluvr449 Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - jazluvr449 Alzheimer's - Crohn's & Colitis - Cystic Fibrosis - Domestic Violence - Fibromyalgia - Leimyosarcoma - Lupus - peyk-peyk World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - peyk-peyk Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - nÔÔb_out_king 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LacedUp View Post
Interesting discussion. I was always of the thought that there were more pro boxers in the mid century than now. Could it perhaps be harder to collect info from that era for boxrec?
Well Bundana and I had a discussion on the subject in another forum. I believe that is a point. I somehow doubt that boxrec has gone through all the regional US papers let alone Worldwide, to gather every result from any bout. That would be a monumental task.

Still the numbers IMO, still is so much greater in todays era than in the past, that it would be unlikely to change that perception completely.

Quote:
The old days are always better - that's how the old days are remembered. Today's boxing has little euphoria connected to it. So in 20 years time, we'll talk about the great days of Mayweather and Pacquiao - similarly to how Sugar Ray Leonard and Roberto Duran are being talked about today. Probably.

Now, I have one issue with this. How do we determine that the quantity of fighters improve the quality of fighters? Surely, there must be a better way to determine this? I don't think that we can determine that 'general competition' increases quality as today there would probably be more registered boxers who freelance as boxers, because the paycheck for a journeyman is higher today than it was before.
There might be better ways yes, but the point stands. If, for instance you take 10 fighters and let them fight each other in separate fights untill 1 emerges as the best (champion) and then do the same with 100 fighters.

If you then pair the 10-fighter champion with the 100-fighter champion surely the 100-fighter champ would be favoured.

Quote:

So if say, 95% of today's fighters are fighting at regional level and only 85% of yesteryear did - That should be a detraction from the overall quality?

What do you guys think?
Possible. Again the gap in absolute quantity is immense.
BattlingNelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2015, 08:32 AM #10
Bundana Bundana is offline
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 630
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Rep Power: 9
Bundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond reputeBundana has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 500,109,906.90
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 500,109,906.90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LacedUp View Post
Wouldn't it be smarter to calculate how many top 10 fighters fought top 10 fighters in their own or another division from decade to decade?

That would show us the quality.
That would be quite an undertaking to work out, though... but if anyone has the time/energy to look into this, it would certainly be interesting to know!
Bundana is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share This With Friends

Tags
discussion., eras., past, todays

User Tag List

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump


 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:52 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.