Let's say all heavyweight greats were in the same era?

[StarshipTrooper]

I have but I'm sure most will agree they are not quite on the same level as Foreman or Liston...

That wasn't what you said. You said specifically >>>>>

We've never seen him in with any big intimidator.

[Mintcar923]

That wasn't what you said. You said specifically >>>>>

My bad.. I should have made it a bit more clear. What I meant was a big intimidator in the same vein as a Foreman or Liston. I don't think the Baer brothers were quite on that level...

[danthepoetman]

As I said before, Louis was 6’2”, which is only one inch smaller than Ali. In his prime, he fought at a bit over 200 pounds, which is young Frazier’s fight weight. No one could match Louis on the inside. His knock out punches were the shortest in boxing history, 12, 18 inches often. Just a perfect, pure, knock out machine, never matched to this day. Forget Liston! Forget Foreman! Louis would have knocked them both out. In fact, Louis never indeed fought such a monster to be feared for the simple reason that in his time, HE was the monster. As Poet alluded to, Max Baer was such a monster in his era, but he once defined fear like this: “Sitting on a stool with Joe Louis at the other end in front of you, and knowing he’s coming out for the next round”. And Louis also knocked out his 6’ 7” brother Buddy in one round. King Levinsky, when he fought Louis, started at some point to scream to the referee: “Don’t let him hit me again!” When huge Abe Simon, a tough military guy who was stronger than anyone, fought Louis, he went on all four as if he was searching for his contact lenses on the mat, and return like that slowly toward his corner. Jack Sharkey commented how fighting Louis was like being in the middle of endless fireworks. Also remember that Louis in 1938, with a sideway body punch, fractured one of Max Schmeling’s vertebras! You easily can see in his fights how he is able to take out cold a guy with one or two short punches, often just one. No one ever was as powerful as Louis, no matter how big. No matter how anyone sees potential, imaginary fights involving him, it should be a given that he would always have had the edge in power.

[res]

Sorry, but the whole "modern training and nutrition" thing grinds my gears severely.

Louis hit a heavy bag, speed bag, and punch mitts. He sparred voraciously, and did roadwork.

Modern nutrition? The Golden Arches didn't pollute our scenery in the 30s and 40s. Sure, current heavyweights are heavier... whether or not that would prove a benefit against a smaller, quicker, slicker heavyweight is up for debate.

And as for weight training, don't even get me started on how completely unnecessary it is toward building a great fighter.

Personally, I'd rather train a fighter in a dusty 1930s gym with a Ray Arcel or Freddie Brown overseeing the proceedings than in a modern facility under the eye of a "strength and conditioning specialist". Yes, there are brilliant trainers today, but they are few and far between. Today's focus seems to be on creating a better athlete as opposed to a better BOXER.

So if it's all the same, I'll take Joe Louis as he was, 195 pounds of masterful destruction. Dollars to donuts he crucifies anyone, past, present, or future, not named Ali.

Well there is certainly validity to a lot of what you say here. Of course my original point only had to do with the fact that a bigger Louis (and we both agree that modern nutrition could at least accomplish that ) would be better able to control the fight on the inside, as opposed to staying on the outside where I believe Ali would for the most part control things.

[kendom]

My bad.. I should have made it a bit more clear. What I meant was a big intimidator in the same vein as a Foreman or Liston. I don't think the Baer brothers were quite on that level...

I doubt Louis would be intimidated by Liston or Foreman, Louis wasn't intimidated by Liston at all, once pulling him by the ear forcefully to do an interview (or something else) that Liston was skirting, this was an old Louis who did this. And you're underestimating the fear that Max Baer generated, this was a man that had killed another man in the ring in brutal fashion, yet Louis didnt show any sign of intimidation, in fact it was Max that suffered the panic attack in his dressing room before the fight.

[SBleeder]

I doubt Louis would be intimidated by Liston or Foreman, Louis wasn't intimidated by Liston at all, once pulling him by the ear forcefully to do an interview (or something else) that Liston was skirting, this was an old Louis who did this.

It was a photo shoot for Esquire.

[Daddy T]

I doubt Louis would be intimidated by Liston or Foreman, Louis wasn't intimidated by Liston at all, once pulling him by the ear forcefully to do an interview (or something else) that Liston was skirting, this was an old Louis who did this. And you're underestimating the fear that Max Baer generated, this was a man that had killed another man in the ring in brutal fashion, yet Louis didnt show any sign of intimidation, in fact it was Max that suffered the panic attack in his dressing room before the fight.

in fairness i think the panic attack was more due to the state of his hands than anything else

but anyway I don't think anybody can point to a list of wins as impressive as Ali's foreman,frazier,liston,patterson to name just 4 and in two of them he was past his best but still found a way to win, in the two where he was prime it wasn't even close.

[kendom]

It was a photo shoot for Esquire.

Yes thats what it is! thanks

[Scott9945]

I doubt Louis would be intimidated by Liston or Foreman, Louis wasn't intimidated by Liston at all, once pulling him by the ear forcefully to do an interview (or something else) that Liston was skirting, this was an old Louis who did this. And you're underestimating the fear that Max Baer generated, this was a man that had killed another man in the ring in brutal fashion, yet Louis didnt show any sign of intimidation, in fact it was Max that suffered the panic attack in his dressing room before the fight.

It's well known that Louis and Liston became good friends in Las Vegas and hung out together. But Joe had tremendous focus and I don't think he'd be intimidated by anyone either.

[kendom]

It's well known that Louis and Liston became good friends in Las Vegas and hung out together. But Joe had tremendous focus and I don't think he'd be intimidated by anyone either.

Yeah I know , but still to pull a grown man by the ear lol even if he was your friend. It's that kind of thing that makes me doubt Louis would have any fear for these guys.