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Old 08-17-2019, 09:29 AM #141
Rusty Tromboni Rusty Tromboni is offline
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As I said before who the hell was angott....a super feather who took Robinson a full blown welter the distance twice.....yippe kayee....anytime gumbo
Angott was a true Lightweight. And probably a big one. But you are right that he was grossly out-sized by Robinson. Kinda like Hearns vs. Cuevas.


Angot was a great spoiler, though. That was his whole schtick. He was basically Jack Johnson 5.0: a clincher and grinder. Because he is Italian, he doesn't get the fanfare that Johnson gets. But the dude was effective.

The idea that the consensus ATG couldn't figure him out, though, with such a massive size disparity, kinda makes you wanna reconsider things, though.

Do you seriously envision Duran or Lomachenko having any problems there? Pure-Boxers, and sluggers, sure. But not versatile fighers.
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Old 08-17-2019, 10:35 AM #142
The plunger man The plunger man is online now
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iwill be the first to say that Robinson's record is comparatively weak when measured against other ATG's (he also got knocked down A LOT for being such a great fighter!).

But it's not RJJ bad... he was fighting the best usually. And he was fighting very, very often. And he was generally dispatching them violently and with ease.

The problem is, he has almost not ATGs on his ledger. His best win was what? LaMotta VI? Bobo Olson? Randy Turpin? Artie Levine? Kid Gavilan?
Really, I don't know. I don't doubt that his regularly doled out impressive performances, but no one picks the Harlem Globetrotters to actually beat an NBA Team.

That's harsh, but Robinson made one attempt at history: to dethrone Light HEavyweight King Joey maxim. And how did that go? Now compare that to Duran vs. Hagler, Greb vs. Tunney, and Conn vs. Louis.

Robinson's legacy, obviously, is easily deflated.
if you go through my posts I never write to a poster demanding that his list is wrong...your right itís a difference of opinion and we all see and have different views on fighters....Robinson is for many but he ainít for me.
I judge most fighters on the eye test and how they perform and on that basis jones was a boxing masterclass the same as Leonard Ali or Whitaker.
Robinson for me just was overated in terms of the eye test but longevity and his record speaks volumes but I need more than that.
Your pretty much the same
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Old 08-17-2019, 11:15 AM #143
Rusty Tromboni Rusty Tromboni is offline
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if you go through my posts I never write to a poster demanding that his list is wrong...your right it’s a difference of opinion and we all see and have different views on fighters....Robinson is for many but he ain’t for me.
I judge most fighters on the eye test and how they perform and on that basis jones was a boxing masterclass the same as Leonard Ali or Whitaker.
Robinson for me just was overated in terms of the eye test but longevity and his record speaks volumes but I need more than that.
Your pretty much the same
I like Jones in head-to-had match-ups. But it's not uncommon to see fighters who look great implode when they meet an opponent of a certain calibre. With Jones, we never saw him against a great opponent. The Toney fight, the Ruiz fight, the first Tarver fight... they all stand out in my mind as impressive performances against reasonable competition. But I really cannot say he was tested enough for me to confidently rank him high. And fantasy fights are just that: fantasy.

Whitaker and Leonard, on the other hand, were tested. And the level of skill they show is much more measurable than Jones'. Personally, while he's comprable physically, I don't think Jones even approaches their level. Not even close.

Ali kinda falls in the middle. Very thoroughly tested, but he often came up short. He had an athletic advantage, which he bolstered w/ amazing stamina and toughness (not strengths of Jones), made him tremdnously successful and a immense joy to watch. But we've now seen much better Heavyweights. And I am not sure Ali was ever even top 5 P4P when he was active, let alone in an All-Time list: there were a lot of great fighters in the 60's and 70's whose ability far out-classed Ali's.
Hell, I can name 15 better pure-boxers than Ali's master, Ken Norton, let alone name 15 fighters who are better P4P.

Last edited by Rusty Tromboni; 08-17-2019 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:44 PM #144
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I like Jones in head-to-had match-ups. But it's not uncommon to see fighters who look great implode when they meet an opponent of a certain calibre. With Jones, we never saw him against a great opponent. The Toney fight, the Ruiz fight, the first Tarver fight... they all stand out in my mind as impressive performances against reasonable competition. But I really cannot say he was tested enough for me to confidently rank him high. And fantasy fights are just that: fantasy.

Whitaker and Leonard, on the other hand, were tested. And the level of skill they show is much more measurable than Jones'. Personally, while he's comprable physically, I don't think Jones even approaches their level. Not even close.

Ali kinda falls in the middle. Very thoroughly tested, but he often came up short. He had an athletic advantage, which he bolstered w/ amazing stamina and toughness (not strengths of Jones), made him tremdnously successful and a immense joy to watch. But we've now seen much better Heavyweights. And I am not sure Ali was ever even top 5 P4P when he was active, let alone in an All-Time list: there were a lot of great fighters in the 60's and 70's whose ability far out-classed Ali's.
Hell, I can name 15 better pure-boxers than Ali's master, Ken Norton, let alone name 15 fighters who are better P4P.
if I had to pick the greatest all round boxer of all time itís leonard...he had everything , footwork , speed , underrated power , championship rounds stamina , a true finisher , heart and timing.
For me my idol and the greatest boxer I have ever seen in my lifetime.
What I meant by jones is go the eye he looked amazing but the difference with him and Leonard was Leonard proved against some of the greatest fighters in history
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Old 08-17-2019, 03:55 PM #145
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I already won lol you could not stump me. I forgot the name of SRL 1st opponent for a min, but could tell you all about the fight. How the hell could we put up a wager??? I clearly did it top of my head and still could answer your questions, you had to run to Boxrec.Enough of this, just go check out some fighters who turned pro before 1990 and then get back to me.[/QUOTEI I told you senile fool anytime any place ....you did nothing you just went with two random names that i was not either interested in or looking for.....I could lose you....who beat Johnny bumphus for his world title ? Who did Jerry Coetzee defeat to win the world title ? Now go on the internet and find the right answer lol.
As I said before who the hell was angott....a super feather who took Robinson a full blown welter the distance twice.....yippe kayee....anytime gumbo
Bumphus lost his title to Gene Hacher by KO not sure what rd but I think it was late.GERRY Coetzee won title vs Tate(by dec I believe) who lost it to Weaver in one of the best comeback KOs in history. You know DAMN WELL I did not have to go to internet like you. Also Angott was a lightweight champ and he fought SRR 3 times not twice and was a HOFer.Keep tying lol
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Old 08-18-2019, 03:59 AM #146
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[QUOTE=john l;19994521]
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Bumphus lost his title to Gene Hacher by KO not sure what rd but I think it was late.GERRY Coetzee won title vs Tate(by dec I believe) who lost it to Weaver in one of the best comeback KOs in history. You know DAMN WELL I did not have to go to internet like you. Also Angott was a lightweight champ and he fought SRR 3 times not twice and was a HOFer.Keep tying lol
no he didnít he beat michael dokes for the title he went and lost it to Greg page in one of the strangest rounds in history where the round carried on well over the bell.
I told you I can lose you gumbo.
I was not not interested in some random small lightweight who Robinson could neither stop or hurt in 3 fights.
People can throw out any name from the past if they know that fighter just like you did......I donít care about angott and I certainly donít care about about a unknown can like brannon.
Anytime gumbo you go your era and I have mine and letís see who top man is.
Now get in your history books your need it
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Old 08-21-2019, 03:23 PM #147
john l john l is offline
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[QUOTE=The plunger man;19995557]
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no he didnít he beat michael dokes for the title he went and lost it to Greg page in one of the strangest rounds in history where the round carried on well over the bell.
I told you I can lose you gumbo.
I was not not interested in some random small lightweight who Robinson could neither stop or hurt in 3 fights.
People can throw out any name from the past if they know that fighter just like you did......I donít care about angott and I certainly donít care about about a unknown can like brannon.
Anytime gumbo you go your era and I have mine and letís see who top man is.
Now get in your history books your need it
So got his 1st title shot mixed up(where he did lose to Tate) with who he lost it too, im doing this off top of my head, not like you. You KNOW I know more about boxing in any era.
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Old 08-21-2019, 03:37 PM #148
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So got his 1st title shot mixed up(where he did lose to Tate) with who he lost it too, im doing this off top of my head, not like you. You KNOW I know more about boxing in any era.
So your wrong and your still trying to say you got mixed up....**** off lol.

As I said Iíll do 70ís 80ís and 90ís and you can stick to your old school fighters....for money or for banishing of the site.
Any time Iím ready
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Old 08-21-2019, 03:46 PM #149
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So your wrong and your still trying to say you got mixed up....**** off lol.

As I said I’ll do 70’s 80’s and 90’s and you can stick to your old school fighters....for money or for banishing of the site.
Any time I’m ready
Ready for what you dumazz??? Like im going to trust you??? Im clearly doing this off top of my head, and you had to look up both Angott(HOFer) and Brannon someone from your area of "expertise" and I use that word lightly. I got his 1st title shot mixed up( where he did lose to Tate) to who he lost it too.

Last edited by john l; 08-21-2019 at 03:48 PM.
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