Why didn't Hagler challenge himself

[Mr Objecitivity]

Why does a boxer need to fight outside the middleweight division to be a middleweight great? Do you realize how irrational and ******ed this idea is? For someone to be a great middleweight or the greatest middleweight of all time, they only need to fight at the middleweight division and that's it. Records outside the middleweight division become irrelevant when judging a boxer based on how great they are as a middleweight.

Also, if a boxer dominates their weight division, so much to the point where nobody else is great because they didn't have the chance to be, then why does that boxer warrant the criticism? Marvin Hagler dominated the middleweight division during his time. Therefore, he couldn't fight any natural 'great' middleweight because they weren't allowed to be great. It's really as simple as that!

[iamboxing]

What the fuck is wrong with "boxing" fans these days? Eating right, avoiding drugs and alcohol and training so you can remain at the same weight over a 15 year career shows discipline, its not taking the easy way out.

You actually think making weight your whole career equates to getting a pass for not going to 175 to fight Spinks?

Exactly, if he found the right weight for him to be at his optimim best and was able to maintain it through work that's deserving of credit, not something to be derided. Well said, bro!

[TonyGe]

This why I rank Leonard, Duran, Ali, Oscar, Chavez, Lewis, and Holyfied so high. These guys literally dominated against all time greats.

Dominated ATGs??? Ali had close fights against Norton and it can be argued he lost some of them. He didn't dominate him or Joe Frazier Lewis lost several fights by KO. Had a tough fight against Ray Mercer and didn't do as well against Holyfield as some expected him to do. Early in Oscar's career he was clearly bigger than his opponents and had some tough fights in his career. Holyfield also had his ups and downs in his career. You can't hold Hagler to a different standard just to bolster your argument. It's great for your debating points but unfair to him. Hagler stayed at one weight and had a "Marvelous" career. The money was in fighting these guys that moved up. Boxing is a sport but it's also the job of the fighter. Who doesn't want to work for more money?

[daggum]

broner 4 division champ. hagler one. broner is 4 times better.

[club fighter]

seen Patterson, holmes holyfield just a few who had better footwork then lewis imo.Not to say Lewis was not very good just don't think footwork is what made him imo. I think his power and very good sence of distance made him the very good fighters he was also jab.

He had a great jab!!! Almost as good as Holmes, but don't dismiss footwork here. People who haven't stepped into the ring don't realize that footwork is the key to it all.

It's what sets you at the proper distance to land shots and totally the most important factor in delivering power to your punches. If you can't plant your feet, you can't deliver the power, and planting your feet requires footwork.

[club fighter]

aka cheating. just like ward. cept ward would hold and hit, throw low blows, jump into you head first on purpose. such great fighters

Do not throw him in the same boat with Ward, two completely different fighters & styles.

[New England]

This is what's wrong with today's boxing fan. Monzons best wins came against smaller men in Napoles and Griffith.

and monzon was a career MW


and roy jones grew out of MW. if he'd have had to weigh in on the day of the fight and fought in an era without a 168 lb weight class he'd likely have been a LHW all along.



marvin hagler was part of some of the biggest fights in boxing, and those would have gone by the wayside if he'd have moved up in weight. he also, you know, was a middleweight. so there is that.


TS would be accusing him of ducking tommy hearns, ray leonard, and roberto duran if he'd moved up

[McNulty]

Hagler is considered to be the greatest MW of all time which is arguable. But looking at his resume all his big wins were against smaller men moving up like Hearns and Duran. There's not one MW on his resume that screams "Great" if anything, Jones and Monzon have better resumes. Most of the greats went up and challenged themselves. Hagler didn't seem to want to do that. He could've went up and faced Michael Spinks but he chose to take the easy way out and stay in a dead division. Why does Hagler get a pass for this.

My work is done here. I been saying this for years and recently here. Planted seeds are paying dividends.

you had to LIVE it, before you can judge it........

I did live it and was fooled like the rest was. Once I got older and wiser, I realized that Hagler was a B-Level fighter.

When hagler fought there was no 168.

He wasnt even a huge middleweight he was even smaller than golovkin. He walked around at 170 and never more so weight cutting no issue, fighters were all slim and in shale and fought at their or near their walk around weights because of same day weigh ins.

The fighters were over-stuffed and Haglers division was full of over-stuffed welterweights. Towards the later part of his career there was 168 so thats not entirely true.

In 1981 McCallum was fighting at 154 as a pro so this who no 168 thing is a load of shít. Junior Middleweight started in 1962, MYTH.

When hagler fought there was no 168.

He wasnt even a huge middleweight he was even smaller than golovkin. He walked around at 170 and never more so weight cutting no issue, fighters were all slim and in shale and fought at their or near their walk around weights because of same day weigh ins.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

Fighters were overstuffed for their weights so they didn't have a hard time keeping at weight. Look at the guys on Haglers record, all like 5'7" weighing 160. Honestly, a lot of those guys look juiced up.

Look at Antuofermo at 5'7" but probably more like 5'6".



Looks like juice. Europe had better access to juice in the 70's and 80's as compared to the US. Plus, a lot of dudes were doing cocaine back then during fights. I know stories about Sweet Pea doing coke at Top Ranks gym in Vegas back in the 80's from a guy I used to box with in the Amateurs.

The Supermiddleweight division started in 1984 and if you go back even further it started in the late 60's.

You guys perpetuate old wives tales non-stop. Time to get fůcking educated already.

[New England]

Dominated ATGs??? Ali had close fights against Norton and it can be argued he lost some of them. He didn't dominate him or Joe Frazier Lewis lost several fights by KO. Had a tough fight against Ray Mercer and didn't do as well against Holyfield as some expected him to do. Early in Oscar's career he was clearly bigger than his opponents and had some tough fights in his career. Holyfield also had his ups and downs in his career. You can't hold Hagler to a different standard just to bolster your argument. It's great for your debating points but unfair to him. Hagler stayed at one weight and had a "Marvelous" career. The money was in fighting these guys that moved up. Boxing is a sport but it's also the job of the fighter. Who doesn't want to work for more money?

ali was well past his prime by the time he got to kenny norton. layoff, hard fights, being a championship level fighter for a decade. you get that, right?

he DOMINATED sonny liston, an all time great, who hadn't lost since his second year as a pro, and who only went to the cards two or three times in the same period. that was almost 10 years before he fought norton [who was a great fighter in his own right.]

[New England]

My work is done here. I been saying this for years and recently here. Planted seeds are paying dividends.



I did live it and was fooled like the rest was. Once I got older and wiser, I realized that Hagler was a B-Level fighter.



The fighters were over-stuffed and Haglers division was full of over-stuffed welterweights. Towards the later part of his career there was 168 so thats not entirely true.

In 1981 McCallum was fighting at 154 as a pro so this who no 168 thing is a load of shít. Junior Middleweight started in 1962, MYTH.



Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

Fighters were overstuffed for their weights so they didn't have a hard time keeping at weight. Look at the guys on Haglers record, all like 5'7" weighing 160. Honestly, a lot of those guys look juiced up.

Look at Antuofermo at 5'7" but probably more like 5'6".



Looks like juice. Europe had better access to juice in the 70's and 80's as compared to the US. Plus, a lot of dudes were doing cocaine back then during fights. I know stories about Sweet Pea doing coke at Top Ranks gym in Vegas back in the 80's from a guy I used to box with in the Amateurs.

The Supermiddleweight division started in 1984 and if you go back even further it started in the late 60's.

You guys perpetuate old wives tales non-stop. Time to get fůcking educated already.

ring magazine literally didn't even start ratings super middleweights until '89. chief reason they started to recognize the weight class was ray leonard.

there was never, at any point in his career, a call for marvin hagler to "move up to 168"

you'd have gotten laughed at if you brought that up on press row during hagler's run at MW.