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Old 04-28-2017, 11:15 AM #61
The Noose The Noose is offline
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Originally Posted by MindGame View Post

The Big Bang can't be true if the universe is expanding into something that shouldn't exist, something beyond the universe itself...
Bizarre reasoning.
Youre saying the big bang cannot be true if the universe is expanding....
but thats exactly what the big bang is.

Plus, where does it say something beyond the universe SHOULDNT exist?
Quote:
Within the context of the Big Bang, the closer to the center of the origin of the Big Bang the matter is, the faster time passes... The further away matter is from the origin of the Big Bang the slower time passes...
The statement underlined is completely false.
There is no center of the origin of the big bang.

Time is relative but doesnt slow down depending where you are, but at what speed you are moving. Something like that.

Quote:
The further from the Earth the astronaut is, the slower time moves for them
Its speed that slows time down, not distance from any one point.
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Old 04-28-2017, 10:26 PM #62
MindGame MindGame is offline
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Originally Posted by The Noose View Post
Bizarre reasoning.
Youre saying the big bang cannot be true if the universe is expanding....
but thats exactly what the big bang is.

Plus, where does it say something beyond the universe SHOULDNT exist?

The statement underlined is completely false.
There is no center of the origin of the big bang.

Time is relative but doesnt slow down depending where you are, but at what speed you are moving. Something like that.



Its speed that slows time down, not distance from any one point.
You needed to scroll back and read from the start... You're not up to speed...

The short version...
The Universe is expanding at a increasingly accelerating rate, which is not possible if it originated from The Big Bang explosion... Any particle that originates from an explosion will be going it's fastest speed immediately after the explosion...

In a zero friction scenario those particles could only remained at a constant speed... They can't accelerate unless something is pulling them, like another gravitational field of some kind or a vapor lock...(Or some other outside influence.)
If anything, the universe should be expanding at a decelerating rate, the further it gets away from the initial energy burst that sent it on it's way...

Either way, the fact that the Universe is expanding at a increasingly accelerating rate makes The Big Bang explosion impossible to account for the acceleration...
Entropy itself is theoretical, equilibrium is not... But that's not for you...

As far as time slowing down with distance, it's a proven fact... All astronauts that leave the Earth for any prolonged length of time, age much more slowly than the people on the Earth do... Just google it, it's a given...

It's the speed of the Earth spinning in relation to the speed of the astronauts outside the Earth... The further away they get, the slower they orbit the Earth, the slower the astronauts age compared to those on Earth, which would become readily apparent when they return to Earth... So, distance does effect their ageing process... The further away they get, the slower they age...

If you think something beyond the universe can exist, then we are on the same page... (You are getting me confused with Lomasexual, that's his contention not mine, so ask him.)
If something outside the Universe exists, then it could not have originated from within the universe, could it ??? The Big Bang says everything originated from The Big Bang... (Again, ask Lomasexual.)

Don't take it personally,
I don't have the time to debate 3 people and address all issues at once, just read along because there are 3 of us with differing opinions exchanging ideas... It's kind of fun, but time consuming...

Last edited by MindGame; 04-30-2017 at 04:12 AM.
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Old 04-28-2017, 10:50 PM #63
MindGame MindGame is offline
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Originally Posted by -Kev- View Post
Well I get what you're saying but i'm gonna be completely honest with you, I can't answer those questions until I can look up how x-rays were made (I imagine like almost everything it was accidental), microwaves (for some reason I think this had to do with Tesla), how radio waves were discovered (again I assume this was Tesla but I actually don't know), how infrared light was discovered.

But to give you a temporary answer while I research these things, all I can say right now is that I think it's like comparing apples and oranges, as far the spiritual world vs the scientific world goes.
Kev,
You don't need to look up when xrays, microwaves, infrared light excetra we're or how they were discovered... (That's as boring as it gets.) It was mainly rhetorical...

Once upon a time, science thought the world was flat, (It's not) science does not believe the world is flat anymore...
Perhaps someday a spiritual world can be scientifically observed, this doesn't mean that world doesn't exist... Science simple hasn't caught up to it yet and perhaps never will...

Enjoy your weekend...
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Old 04-29-2017, 12:23 AM #64
MindGame MindGame is offline
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Originally Posted by Lomasexual View Post
This description of time is not one that I have seen outside of religious forums.

Time is a dimension. The relationship between matter and energy and spacetime is the subject of a huge amount of study (although my sentence there is a gross oversimplification).

Time and matter interact. This doesn't mean that they are codependent.



I think you are getting space confused. A dimension doesn't need anywhere to expand into. Dimensions are not the same as matter.

It is difficult to understand this. I often see people fail to understand that there is no 'before' the big bang, and there is no 'outside' the universe.



The big bang model can be true as to explain the current phenomena that we observe, but it would no longer be a starting point for everything.

But there is nothing to say that there is anything beyond the universe. Again, not being able to understand how a dimension expands (as opposed to matter) doesn't mean that the universe is expanding into something.



Again, this is not a description of time I would see anywhere outside religious beliefs. Time does not require matter to exist.



Relatavistic effects on time are pretty well known, and can be calculated accurately. This doesn't really do anything to support your initial ideas about there being some kind of interdependence between time and matter. It just describes the interactions between them.



Again, this seems to misunderstand what a dimension is. It is also swapping the concepts of matter and space.



Expansion doesn't imply a reduction in entropy. Entropy is increasing in the expanding universe. One of the predicted outcomes of the big bang is essentially a state of maximum entropy.

EXPANSION DOES IMPLY A REDUCTION IN ENTROPY, AS IT IS DELUDED AS IT EXPANDS...
IT CAN EXPLAIN WHY THE UNIVERSE IS EXPANDING, BUT NOT HOW ACCELERATION IS POSSIBLE...

IT CERTAINLY CAN'T FUEL A CONTINUOUSLY ACCELERATING EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE... (Unless you believe in spontaneous generation and apply the concept to Entropy and also give it infinite fuel supply.)



There are certainly issues with the big bang theory, but I don't think you have addressed any of them.
Hmmm ???
2 things,
1st.)
You are basically hiding behind the concept of "Dimension" and using it as a excuse to justify what you can't explain...

Time, Matter and Speed interaction 101...

Let's blast Loma off the Earth in his spacecraft called Big Bang Believer1 or BBB1...
The Earth (Matter) is spinning (Speed) faster than BBB1 is orbiting the Earth... People on Earth are aging (Time) one day per Revolution, but the BBB is not keeping pace... Loma is aging at a slower rate than people on Earth... Depending on how many more revolutions the Earth spins then BBB1 orbits the Earth before Loma's return will determine how much more slowly Loma aged (Time) in relation to those people on Earth... In this example Time, Matter and Speed are co-dependent and it's been proven in the real world with real astronauts...
Time is a instrument of measurement relative to what it is measuring...

2.)

Then you are using "Religious argument" as a reason not to address the argument...

I actually have yet to use the real religious argument... So now I will introduce you to the real religious argument...

All this matter that originated from "The Big Bang" had to come from somewhere...
Where did it come from, when did it get there and who put it there ???

Last edited by MindGame; 04-29-2017 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 04-29-2017, 02:40 AM #65
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Originally Posted by MindGame View Post
Hmmm ???
2 things,
1st.)
You are basically hiding behind the concept of "Dimension" and using it as a excuse to justify what you can't explain...

Time, Matter and Speed interaction 101...

Let's blast Loma off the Earth in his spacecraft called Big Bang Believer1 or BBB1...
The Earth (Matter) is spinning (Speed) faster than BBB1 is orbiting the Earth... People on Earth are aging (Time) one day per Revolution, but the BBB is not keeping pace... Loma is aging at a slower rate than people on Earth... Depending on how many more revolutions the Earth spins then BBB1 orbits the Earth before Loma's return will determine how much more slowly Loma aged (Time) in relation to those people on Earth... In this example Time, Matter and Speed are co-dependent and it's been proven in the real world with real astronauts...
Time is a instrument of measurement relative to what it is measuring...

2.)

Then you are using "Religious argument" as a reason not to address the argument...

I actually have yet to use the real religious argument... So now I will introduce you to the real religious argument...

All this matter that originated from "The Big Bang" had to come from somewhere...
Where did it come from, when did it get there and who put it there ???
I'm not really hiding behind the meaning of a dimension. I'm saying that they don't work they way you seem to think that they work.
They don't obey the rules that apply to matter or energy.

I'm also aware of the relativistic effects on time. However, while we both agree that time and matter interact, you are then equivocating interaction with codependency. These are not the same things.

I mention religion because, as far as I know, the only people who describe these physical concepts in a similar way are religious people.
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Old 05-05-2017, 12:05 PM #66
The Noose The Noose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MindGame View Post
You needed to scroll back and read from the start... You're not up to speed...

The short version...
The Universe is expanding at a increasingly accelerating rate, which is not possible if it originated from The Big Bang explosion... Any particle that originates from an explosion will be going it's fastest speed immediately after the explosion...

In a zero friction scenario those particles could only remained at a constant speed... They can't accelerate unless something is pulling them, like another gravitational field of some kind or a vapor lock...(Or some other outside influence.)
If anything, the universe should be expanding at a decelerating rate, the further it gets away from the initial energy burst that sent it on it's way...

Either way, the fact that the Universe is expanding at a increasingly accelerating rate makes The Big Bang explosion impossible to account for the acceleration...
Entropy itself is theoretical, equilibrium is not... But that's not for you...

As far as time slowing down with distance, it's a proven fact... All astronauts that leave the Earth for any prolonged length of time, age much more slowly than the people on the Earth do... Just google it, it's a given...

It's the speed of the Earth spinning in relation to the speed of the astronauts outside the Earth... The further away they get, the slower they orbit the Earth, the slower the astronauts age compared to those on Earth, which would become readily apparent when they return to Earth... So, distance does effect their ageing process... The further away they get, the slower they age...

If you think something beyond the universe can exist, then we are on the same page... (You are getting me confused with Lomasexual, that's his contention not mine, so ask him.)
If something outside the Universe exists, then it could not have originated from within the universe, could it ??? The Big Bang says everything originated from The Big Bang... (Again, ask Lomasexual.)

Don't take it personally,
I don't have the time to debate 3 people and address all issues at once, just read along because there are 3 of us with differing opinions exchanging ideas... It's kind of fun, but time consuming...
Just read it quickly.
Yea, i didnt read the whole thread, so i wasnt up to speed.

A couple of quick points.
The astronauts going more slowly is because of the speed they are travelling. Not their distance from the Earth. As far as im aware.

I think its a mystery at the moment what is outside the universe.
The speed of light is the speed limit for matter. Yet the universe continues to expand faster. So its not any particles that are moving faster. Its the expansion of space itself that is increasing.
So i dont see how the big bang and the acceleration of the expanding universe are at odds.

Its fun to chat about, but it all goes way over my head. Im probably wrong about everything.
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Old 08-13-2017, 05:36 AM #67
MindGame MindGame is offline
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Originally Posted by Lomasexual View Post
Expansion doesn't imply a reduction in entropy. Entropy is increasing in the expanding universe. One of the predicted outcomes of the big bang is essentially a state of maximum entropy.
This is your quote, where you say entropy is increasing in the expanding universe... Maximum entropy is impossible to maintain without a infinite fuel source...
Entropy itself is also subject to the second law of thermodynamics... It will degrade as time goes by and energy (Heat) is used up...
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