Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[StarshipTrooper]

Bowe wouldn't have beat the fighters of the 70's, would have thrown his belt in the bin and buggered off to Dunkin Dougnuts

ROFLMAO!

Poet

[ForemanCrossArm]

Um, Buster Mathis was like Bowe.. except that he found out about buffets at the age of 8 not 28.

[WelshDevilRob]

** Bowe is what he is. Just because Bowe wanted to finish his career camped in his frig is no reason to ignore his compelling physical attributes and what he did accomplish in the ring.

Ah, I never liked Bowe intruth and I doubt I ever will, I lost complete respect for him when he gave up the WBC strap and proceeded to defend against Mike Dokes and Jesse Ferguson.

Outside of Holyfield it's hard to think of his biggest win maybe Larry Donald or Jorge Luis Gonzalez - probably forgotten someone.

I don't doubt his physical attributes but I'll not for one minute put him on a pedastal like the true greats. All subjective though.

[-CANE-]

I personally couldn't stand him either, I think it was his attitude and his twat of a manager. Saying that though he had all the tools to be great. His chin wasn't as good as Lewis's, but for such a big guy, was one of the best infighters I have ever seen. Another wasted talent, who just couldn't leave them Dougnuts alone. I'd like to have seen Bowe vs Douglas fighting over some food though, that would have been a good fight.

[WelshDevilRob]

I personally couldn't stand him either, I think it was his attitude and his twat of a manager. Saying that though he had all the tools to be great. His chin wasn't as good as Lewis's, but for such a big guy, was one of the best infighters I have ever seen. Another wasted talent, who just couldn't leave them Dougnuts alone. I'd like to have seen Bowe vs Douglas fighting over some food though, that would have been a good fight.

Rock Newman was a hard man to like though in retrospect maybe his attitude was because he knew that Bowe wasn't as good as some thought and if that is the case the Rock did a good job in protecting his 'cash cow'.

[Brassangel]

*The following post will be a bit scattered as I'm trying to answer several posts.

The "marginal difference" in KO percentage you speak of is actually quite large when you calculate the number of fights between all of the fighters, and the fact that Foreman, Holmes, Shavers, and Ali all had "extended" careers when they were way beyond their normal skills to KO people like they used to.

Also, Holmes was probably the 4th man of the 70's, since he won the strap in 1978. Norton was probably 5th, though. Even so, I'd take him over Bowe.

I will concede one point: Tyson, Holyfield, and Lewis could hold their own against Ali, Holmes, and Foreman (or Frazier). Seriously though, Lewis got up in better shape from his knockdowns (except that he was knocked out by Rahman) than did Holmes? Holmes was knocked down by Shavers...anybody would get up in better shape against an opponent other than Shavers. Holmes not only got up, he went on to TKO Shavers, not just survive.

Lewis beat Tua with the jab, and a straight right hand, plain and simple. The 2" of reach advantage Lewis had over Holmes wouldn't matter, seeing as how Holmes had perhaps the best pure jab in the division's history. Holmes would beat Tua, because he was better at using the strategy Lewis used to beat him, had a better chin, better stamina, better recovery rate, etc. Ali would beat Tua, because it took a good counter-jab and parrying right hand to beat Ali; niether of which Tua possessed in spades. Foreman would land wide open punches all day long, though Tua would definitely have a better chance here than he would against the other two. Both fighters would throw a lot, with Foreman having the size, height, power, and reach advantage; both had incredible chins, though Tua may have had the stamina edge here.

I seriously can't believe I'm still talking about Tua...he has no business on a list like this.

[LondonRingRules]

*The following post will be a bit scattered as I'm trying to answer several posts.

The "marginal difference" in KO percentage you speak of is actually quite large when you calculate the number of fights between all of the fighters, and the fact that Foreman, Holmes, Shavers, and Ali all had "extended" careers when they were way beyond their normal skills to KO people like they used to.

Also, Holmes was probably the 4th man of the 70's, since he won the strap in 1978. Norton was probably 5th, though. Even so, I'd take him over Bowe.

** First off, Foreman was KOing fighters at about the same rate as his youth.

2. Lewis, Tyson, Holy, had extended careers as much as Shavers and Ali.

3. If Holmes was the 4th man of the 70s, how come no Frazier, Foreman, Ali, Norton in their primes? He only faced a fading Norton and shot Ali, even though he's a contempary of the 4.

4. Holmes KO % was improved immeasurably by defending against Frank, Evangelista, Zanon, and the rest of the mostly washerwomen he scraped up. Norton arguably won their fight and could have done it much easier. Holmes actually fought tougher comp in his comeback even though he was losing the big bouts. Tyson, Holy, Mercer, McCall, all bigger and stronger and tougher than anyone he faced before Spinks. Even Neilson was better than everyone but Spinks, Cooney, Norton, and Shavers, so that's 17 fighters right there.

The smallest 4 of the 90s was Holy, and he's the same size as all but Foreman in the 70s. The 90s are about 15-20lbs over the 70s and stronger.

Now, if you want to include Holmes as the 5th man of the 70s, well, OK, Foreman of the 90s just walks him down and knocks him out. Man vs boy. Ouch! Well, maybe Holmes could wear his track shoes and take the loss standing up!

[Brassangel]

Holmes had one of the most punishing jabs in history. His straight right was no cupcake either. He would simply outbox Foreman into submission, as his defense was vastly surperior to Ali's. When Ali's swiftness faded, it became clear that his best defense was to simply absorb punishment until the other guy got tired. Well, Holmes could take a lot, but it wasn't easy to get it in. Foreman would have trouble finding Holmes in the 70's, and in the 90's, sure, Foreman would clobber him (assuming a 90's Holmes as well).

Tua's KO percentage was improved immeasurably by never fighting anyone important. When he did fight them, he lost.

Foreman's KO percentage before his exile was 89.1%; post exile it was 75.7%...tell me how that's practically the same.

[StarshipTrooper]

Holmes had one of the most punishing jabs in history. His straight right was no cupcake either. He would simply outbox Foreman into submission, as his defense was vastly surperior to Ali's. When Ali's swiftness faded, it became clear that his best defense was to simply absorb punishment until the other guy got tired. Well, Holmes could take a lot, but it wasn't easy to get it in. Foreman would have trouble finding Holmes in the 70's, and in the 90's, sure, Foreman would clobber him (assuming a 90's Holmes as well).

Tua's KO percentage was improved immeasurably by never fighting anyone important. When he did fight them, he lost.

Foreman's KO percentage before his exile was 89.1%; post exile it was 75.7%...tell me how that's practically the same.

I never thought I'd be on the same page as Brassangel but I agree with his post 100%. Nothing I can add.

Post

[-CANE-]

On a list of greatest fighters of all time, sure there are gonna be differences, but come on, why on earth is everyone still arguing over Tua, he shouldn't have been mentioned in the first place, the guy that posted that list is from cuckoo land, his list is quite possibly the worst list I have ever seen, or the best windup I have ever seen, and wev'e all fallen for it